Is Sola Scriptura Self-refuting?

[concretecamper]

I noticed you avoided "God breathed" in your reply. The same Holy Spirit of the Old Testament writings, is the same of the NT writings. Nope, the authority of the church is NOT GOD BREATHED. It is a theological innovation.

The Bible is "God breathed". Sorry I took it for granted that you knew that.

So, what scripture did Timothy know in his youth?

 

[concretecamper]

Nope, the authority of the church is NOT GOD BREATHED. It is a theological innovation.

Luke 10:16

 

[Clare73]

I'm arguing that His Church has authority. The argument isn't about the authority of scripture since scripture and His Church does not contradict each other.

Uh-hum. . .the immaculate conception is not in my Bible. . .Ro 5:18-19 is in my Bible.

Jesus explicitly commands us to listen to the Church.

Please refresh my memory on that.

The Church tells us the Bible is Divinely inspired.

Uh-hem. . .Scripture tells us it is God-breathed (2 Ti 3:16).

So yes, we would do well to what the Bible teaches.

Which statement presents the church as the authority for Scripture.

 

[Clare73]

The Bible is "God breathed". Sorry I took it for granted that you knew that.

So, what scripture did Timothy know in his youth?

Sorry, I took it for granted that you knew that.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Luke 10:16

Where does this verse say the "authority of the church" is GOD BREATHED? Only Scripture is God breathed.

 

[concretecamper]

Uh-hum. . .the immaculate conception is not in my Bible. . .Ro 5:18-19 is in my Bible.

Your misinterpretation of that verse has been addressed many times on this forum. You side always loses.

Which statement presents the church as the authority for Scripture.

Mat 18:18 for one

Sorry, I took it for granted that you knew that.

Care to do the math?

 

[concretecamper]

Where does this verse say the "authority of the church" is GOD BREATHED? Only Scripture is God breathed.

Umm, He is talking to the first Bishops of the Church

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Umm, He is talking to the first Bishops of the Church

What? This refers to the sending out of 72 disciples who were evangelized for a specific duration of time and then came back to Jesus. This verse has nothing to do with the first bishops of the church. Where do you get such outlandish ideas from?

There is no such thing as "the authority of the church" as GOD BREATHED. The church is not GOD BREATHED. Only Scripture is.

 

[Clare73]

Your misinterpretation of that verse has been addressed many times on this forum. You side always loses.

Non-responsive. . .

Mat 18:18 for one

Mt 18:17, "listen to the church," is in the context of how love handles sin of a brother (fellow believer) against a brother.
Ultimately if it cannot be resolved, it is to be taken to the local congregation for a decision.

So you present authority of the local congregation in a personal dispute between believers as authority over Scripture?

In Mt 18:18, "bind and loose" refers to guilt and innocence (e.g., Ac 5:3, Ac 5:9-10), not to authority over Scripture.

Care to do the math?

Present math. . .and we'll go from there.

 

[concretecamper]

What? This refers to the sending out of 72 disciples who were evangelized for a specific duration of time and then came back to Jesus. This verse has nothing to do with the first bishops of the church. Where do you get such outlandish ideas from?

There is no such thing as "the authority of the church" as GOD BREATHED. The church is not GOD BREATHED. Only Scripture is.

Hmmm, who to believe? You or Cyril and Augustine?

CYRIL; Whereby He teaches, that whatever is said by the holy Apostles must be received, since he who hears them hears Christ, and an inevitable punishment therefore hangs over heretics who neglect the words of the Apostles; for it follows, and he who despises you despises me.

AUG. But if the word of God reaches to us also, and appoints us in the Apostles place, beware of despising us, lest that reach to Him which you have done to us.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Hmmm, who to believe? You or Cyril and Augustine?

CYRIL; Whereby He teaches, that whatever is said by the holy Apostles must be received, since he who hears them hears Christ, and an inevitable punishment therefore hangs over heretics who neglect the words of the Apostles; for it follows, and he who despises you despises me.

AUG. But if the word of God reaches to us also, and appoints us in the Apostles place, beware of despising us, lest that reach to Him which you have done to us.

Now you are appealing to authorities OUTSIDE of Scripture and extra Biblical. Only Scripture has GOD BREATHED WORDS. Cyril and Augustine statements concerning scripture ARE NOT GOD BREATHED. Only Scripture is.

 

[concretecamper]

Now you are appealing to authorities OUTSIDE of Scripture and extra Biblical. Only Scripture has GOD BREATHED WORDS. Cyril and Augustine statements concerning scripture ARE NOT GOD BREATHED. Only Scripture is.

We all appeal to authority outside of scripture. It's just that some of us follow the correct authority and don't follow our own novel ideas like SS.

By you believing that your interpretation of scripture is correct, you are making YOURSELF an infallible authority. I guess I don't have your confidence.

That's why I always research how the Early Church interpreted scripture. I am not an infallible authority, but I know where to find one.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

We all appeal to authority outside of scripture. It's just that some of us follow the correct authority and don't follow our own novel ideas like SS.

YOUR interpretation of scripture is placing YOU as an authority.

In your quotations of Cyril and Augustine, they refer back to the Apostolic writers who were inspired writers of Scripture. Your quotations of Cyril and Augustine don't refer to themselves as inspired writers of Scripture. Why do you try to make them into something they are not. THE CHURCH HAS NO GOD BREATHED AUTHORITY.

 

[concretecamper]

Your quotations of Cyril and Augustine don't refer to themselves as inspired writers of Scripture.

That post didn't attempt to say that they were.

Why do you try to make them into something they are not. THE CHURCH HAS NO GOD BREATHED AUTHORITY.

According to YOUR infallible interpretation of scripture? Sorry, I don't buy it.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

That post didn't attempt to say that they were.

According to YOUR infallible interpretation of scripture? Sorry, I don't buy it.

Where in Scripture does it say "Church authority" is GOD BREATHED? NO WHERE. But please do make some lame argument for it.

 

[concretecamper]

Where in Scripture does it say "Church authority" is GOD BREATHED? NO WHERE. But please do make some lame argument for it.

Oh, getting insulting are you?

The Bible tell us The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. The Bible tells us the Tanahk is God Breathed 2 Tim 3:16. Where in the Bible does is tell us the Book of Revelation is inspired text? It was written way after Paul's first letter to Timothy and it certainly wasn't something Timothy knew in his youth.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Oh, getting insulting are you?

The inspired scripture tell us The Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

Where does the Bible teach this? This is getting tiring.

 

[concretecamper]

Where does the Bible teach this? This is getting tiring.

1 Tim 3:15

Yes, learning can be very tiring. And I thought you knew the bible

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

And I thought you knew the bible

Now who is getting snippy. This conversation is over.

 

[concretecamper]

Now who is getting snippy. This conversation is over.

Tapping out? I understand. 1 Tim 3:15 is a tough one to argue against