Is self image about yourself or others trying to improve their self image?

[razzelflabben]

When I came to the forum, I came looking for a voice, and I guess maybe I am looking for the same thing in this post.

First the question. On a scale of 1-10 10 being high self esteem, where would you rate your own esteem?

I don't know how to say what is on my heart without sounding like I am complaining, and believe me when I say that even though I don't have many of the things others take for granted, I feel very blessed. But I need to say it none the less and I need to know if there are others out there struggling with the same things.

This week, I went to the hospital with possible heart problems, we still don't know if there is a problem or not and quite frankly, I won't go the rest of the way to find out. I think if I analize why, it boils down to a low self image. I know that my husband and kids love me, but all my life I have been told that I am not worthy. I guess, over time, I have accepted that. People here on the forum have no clue the agony I put myself through when I am told I am at fault for miscommunication or some other "critisims". I talked to a social worker a few months back and she said, "people have been lieing to you" "you have had it rough". I don't think I have had it that rough, and yet, I am so tired of trying only to be told that I am not even worthy of winter shoes or coat, or 3 meals a day. To come to the forum and be told that my ideas aren't worthy of being heard. Anyway, I am rambling and whining and I don't want to do that, this thread isn't so much about me, but rather an attempt to understand, is self worth about our own value or is it about others trying to value themselves thus cutting others down? Thanks for sharing.

 

[Sojourner<><]

In my humble opinion, a good self image is not one of pride but dignity. We need to respect others first and then ourselves. More easily said than done...

 

[razzelflabben]

In my humble opinion, a good self image is not one of pride but dignity. We need to respect others first and then ourselves. More easily said than done...

Interesting, is it still dignity when we put others ahead of ourselves to the point of harming ourselves?

 

[LoG]

Interesting, is it still dignity when we put others ahead of ourselves to the point of harming ourselves?

I think it depends on our motivation. Too often we do things to get approval or because of a fear of rejection and abandonment. No dignity in those motivations.

 

[Sojourner<><]

Interesting, is it still dignity when we put others ahead of ourselves to the point of harming ourselves?

Not if it is unneccessary. Our lives are given to us. We need to take care of them and live well so that we have something to offer to others.

 

[Anti Existance]

10/10 when it comes to self-esteem. I have a do or die attitude and will throw myself into the fire for what i stand for without second thoughts, that said i also see your problem.

You see , you need to love,support and believe in yourself. And basically you need to stop seeking confirmation from others, reality is 'you can do anything'. However in a world where no one supports you you better make sure you support yourself, ask yourself the question 'does a professional boxer hesitate when he goes into the ring about the question of pounding that opponent of his , he sees only one thing, the gold medal, and he goes for gold. What good will hesitation do to him in a fight?, what good does it for him to be afraid of getting hurt? Reality is that you WILL get HURT, so might as well kick the hell out of your opponent which is life.

I think black and white, while knowing there is a gray area. Although i take that area in aspect i do not live by it unless i have no other choice because

When you want to achieve something a display of fear is nothing more then absurd, nothing can grow from fear. Hesitate and you will die, retreat and you will age. Move forward go forward , self worth is the worth that you attach to yourself, however if you let others influence you your self worth will drop to zero, therefore you have to bring the power of your life back where it belongs, namely in YOUR hands(not others). Thats why if you loved,believed and supported yourself you wouldn't care one bit for what other people say about you. Heck it would be different you would say something like I AM THE ONE WHO DETERMINES wether im worth 3 meals a day, I AM THE ONE WHO DETERMINES wether i wear winterboots or not.

Honestly if you wear those boots, chances are low someone will jump to your feet trying to remove them, you might get comments, but who's life is it, your life or their life?

 

[razzelflabben]

10/10 when it comes to self-esteem. I have a do or die attitude and will throw myself into the fire for what i stand for without second thoughts, that said i also see your problem.

You see , you need to love,support and believe in yourself. And basically you need to stop seeking confirmation from others, reality is 'you can do anything'. However in a world where no one supports you you better make sure you support yourself, ask yourself the question 'does a professional boxer hesitate when he goes into the ring about the question of pounding that opponent of his , he sees only one thing, the gold medal, and he goes for gold. What good will hesitation do to him in a fight?, what good does it for him to be afraid of getting hurt? Reality is that you WILL get HURT, so might as well kick the hell out of your opponent which is life.

I think black and white, while knowing there is a gray area. Although i take that area in aspect i do not live by it unless i have no other choice because

When you want to achieve something a display of fear is nothing more then absurd, nothing can grow from fear. Hesitate and you will die, retreat and you will age. Move forward go forward , self worth is the worth that you attach to yourself, however if you let others influence you your self worth will drop to zero, therefore you have to bring the power of your life back where it belongs, namely in YOUR hands(not others). Thats why if you loved,believed and supported yourself you wouldn't care one bit for what other people say about you. Heck it would be different you would say something like I AM THE ONE WHO DETERMINES wether im worth 3 meals a day, I AM THE ONE WHO DETERMINES wether i wear winterboots or not.

Honestly if you wear those boots, chances are low someone will jump to your feet trying to remove them, you might get comments, but who's life is it, your life or their life?

I think your right to a point, but when wearing those boots means that my kids go barefoot or without food, it is awful hard to say, I am more worthy of boots and food than my children or my husband, or a neighbor, or extended family.

We had a situation a couple of years ago in which we had an oppertunity to get out of poverty. We prayed and had others pray as well. The bottom line is that others prayers followed one of two lines. 1. we don't want you to go or 2. the other people need the job too let's pray they get it. Now I get stuck in this reality all the time, (I prayerfully hope you have never been there much less get there repeatedly) where, my needs being met mean that others are suffering. So I deny myself things, like food and boots and jobs, so that others don't have to suffer through a winter without boots or a day without food. I don't find this too big a problem until I see people splurging and wasting and complaining to me and seeing me suffer and yet do nothing. I don't want handouts, I just want to find the "truth" in when it is it God's love to say I need and when it is God's love to say I Love you with the sacrificial, unconditional Love God has given and shown to me. Where is the balance, the line that marks or defines Love from selfishness? Aren't we to show the world God's Love? and isn't that Love sacrificial?

 

[LoG]

Imo we practice sacrificial love when God lays it on our hearts and spirits to do so. When it is done in that manner the love is a blessing to the one that gives as well as the one who receives. The motivation comes from the spirit not the flesh because otherwise it is a "work" or following the law.

We also need to be careful that our pride doesn't allow us to accept handouts. If something is offered to me by someone then I need to accept in humility what God may be giving me through this other person.

Reminds me of the story about a man whose house was being flooded. A rowboat came by and the people in it said "jump in and we'll save you" The man replied, "it's ok my God will save me". The flood waters increased and he climbed up the roof. A motorboat came by and the people in it said, "jump in, we'll save you". The man again said, "it's ok my God will save me". The flood waters increased and he climbed to the top of the antenna. A helicopter came by and lowered a rope for him but he waved it away again saying "God will save me".
The man drowned and came up to heaven where he asked God, "why didn't you save me from the flood?" God replied, " I sent you a rowboat, motorboat, helicopter..."

God does ask us to show His love in us through giving but He also promises us that He will feed and clothe us. We need to recognize when He is trying to do so.

 

[If Not For Grace]

but all my life I have been told that I am not worthy

I think you hit the nail on the head right here, and later when you said you guess you had "accepted" that.

My self esteem was low (and will take a dive now and then) for years. But on your scale I would say I am about a 7.7.

I have worked in an around mental health for years and believe poor self image/standards is the underlying bacteria for many a disease.

I wish they would call it "poor standards" in stead of esteem. No one wants poor standards, but low self esteem is a badge in the world of martyrdom.

Christ died for you. He would have come here and endured everything He did IF YOU were the only person who needed it. YOU are valuable a child of Heaven. That makes you somebody.

Your mind is like a pretty colored bottle. What you put in, is what you have. It is colored and others can not see so clearly what is inside, but you can see if there is dirt/debris floating around in there.

You must detox (empty) the mind of the negative and insert the positive. You must do what 12-steppers call and inventory (this takes work) and get gut level honest with yourself before changes can be made.

Do you---YOU (not your family) feel that in order to be loved you must be needed? If you do then you are substituting NEED for Love. Do you like being martyr? This feeds alot of peoples need to be "petted" or consoled.


These are just examples of things you can ask yourself. Start with:

Why am I scared to go to the Doctor?
Why do I feel unworthy (when God takes notice of me)?

Start your day with affirmations in order to build up esteem. Tell yourself (read it in the Bible) what God thinks of you.. DAILY.

You did not build up these toxins all at once and it WILL take TIME & COMMITTMENT to clean up the mess.

Putting yourself first does not mean putting other people down. It's like standing at the top of a hill and helping others to climb. One must take care of himself, before he can be of use to others.

You can do this--That Social worker was on the right track. IF you want change then you must do something different. That's just a plain fact.

YOU ARE WORTHY... Love d

 

[razzelflabben]

I didn't want this thread to be about me individually, that is to miss the point, but I fear that some will not see past my burdens. So let me start by saying that I am okay, I will be okay, as a friend once said, if razz gives up the world isn't right.

I think you hit the nail on the head right here, and later when you said you guess you had "accepted" that.

I think at one point or other in our lives, we all believe what we are told. The key is to evaluate that fairly and take what is ours to own and leaving what is not.

My self esteem was low (and will take a dive now and then) for years. But on your scale I would say I am about a 7.7.

I have worked in an around mental health for years and believe poor self image/standards is the underlying bacteria for many a disease.

I wish they would call it "poor standards" in stead of esteem. No one wants poor standards, but low self esteem is a badge in the world of martyrdom.

Christ died for you. He would have come here and endured everything He did IF YOU were the only person who needed it. YOU are valuable a child of Heaven. That makes you somebody.

And yet God asked me if I was willing to be hit by a train so that a life could be spared. Sacrifice is a natural part of love, but in this country we seem to be afraid of giving our excess much less sacrificially.

Your mind is like a pretty colored bottle. What you put in, is what you have. It is colored and others can not see so clearly what is inside, but you can see if there is dirt/debris floating around in there.

sometimes we can't see it clearly either, which is why God is so important, He alone can see it clearly.

You must detox (empty) the mind of the negative and insert the positive. You must do what 12-steppers call and inventory (this takes work) and get gut level honest with yourself before changes can be made.

Do you---YOU (not your family) feel that in order to be loved you must be needed?

No, there are many days I would love to be needed less. Less need would be love

If you do then you are substituting NEED for Love. Do you like being martyr?

Nope, I like being able to walk away and talk with God and renew myself so that I can give more of myself that others might see God through me.

This feeds alot of peoples need to be "petted" or consoled.

I hate for people to know what I have done and how I suffer, but I also believe that we must be honest so that people have the oppertuity to give as God would give. In fact, my husband often "encourages" me to share because I don't have an interest in being known to that degree. I have been married to my huband for 19 years. He has a close family, last year his nephew died unexpectantly, at the funeral was the first time any of this family ever knew that I had been hit by a train. I don't find it uplifting to have people know the things that I think or feel are personal, yet I am not going to hide from sharing either. God is awesome and has done much in and through me, can't hide that.

These are just examples of things you can ask yourself. Start with:

Why am I scared to go to the Doctor?

personally, I don't have the strength to go to the doctor again. When I was going to college I was anorexic, working a physically demanding job, sleeping for about 1 hour a day, and having physical problems. (who could guess) I went to the doctor, and was told that I was fat and lazy, if I lost weight and got more exercise I would be fine, I asked the dr. how I should loose weight, he told me to eat less. I told him I was lucky if I ate 2 or 3 bites of food a week literally. He said well, when you do eat, eat less.

When I was pregnant with out first child, the dr. put me on a med. the package said not to use if pregnant, I ask the drr. and was told "don't question me I am the dr." This is just two examples of the times I have been to the dr. I don't have the heart to go through all that again. Simply don't have it in me.

Why do I feel unworthy (when God takes notice of me)?

Actually, I long for God to take notice, and give me some badly needed rest. I don't care to have all the "luxuries", I just long for a season of rest. God use to take notice a lot, and was very vocal with me, today, He is more silent which challenges my faith and Love for God. A challenge I take to heart and boldly.

Start your day with affirmations in order to build up esteem. Tell yourself (read it in the Bible) what God thinks of you.. DAILY.

You did not build up these toxins all at once and it WILL take TIME & COMMITTMENT to clean up the mess.

Putting yourself first does not mean putting other people down. It's like standing at the top of a hill and helping others to climb. One must take care of himself, before he can be of use to others.

Question? When did Jesus put Himself first? If I am to show His love, how can I justify putting mysefl first? When is it selfishness and when is it love?

You can do this--That Social worker was on the right track. IF you want change then you must do something different. That's just a plain fact.

YOU ARE WORTHY... Love d

She wasn't refering to how I feel about myself but rather about getting jobs.

 

[Amin]

Hi,

First of all let me say that everyone
is of worth even if you don't think so. I don't know you or your life, but i can tell you who, or whatever led you to believe you aren't worth
anything are completely wrong in what they said.
I believe self image has to do with the way you see yourself.
You've got to know that if you were the only person on earth, God would have still sent his Son to
save you. What does that tell you?
It tells me that you are valueable enough to God, That He would save you if there wasonlyYOU.
I think that makes you pretty special.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
I'm just stating a fact.
That fact is you're worth something to the One that created everything
you can see and everything you can't see.
When you look in the mirror you should see a child of the One that
gave you and everything else, life,
love and salvation. What does that say about your worth to God?
I can't by saying a single word
Convince you you have self worth.
You have to come to your own
realization of the fact that you're not a lowly creature.
Remember, God sees a wonderful thing in you, and because of that
has made a mansion for you in His kingdom.
Indeed what a person you must be.
Try to see what God sees in you.
That He would do those wonderful things He's done to give you a way to be with Him.
In my book, that's worth more
than we could ever dream.

Bless You,
Take Care,

Chuck.

 

[razzelflabben]

Imo we practice sacrificial love when God lays it on our hearts and spirits to do so. When it is done in that manner the love is a blessing to the one that gives as well as the one who receives. The motivation comes from the spirit not the flesh because otherwise it is a "work" or following the law.

We also need to be careful that our pride doesn't allow us to accept handouts. If something is offered to me by someone then I need to accept in humility what God may be giving me through this other person.

Reminds me of the story about a man whose house was being flooded. A rowboat came by and the people in it said "jump in and we'll save you" The man replied, "it's ok my God will save me". The flood waters increased and he climbed up the roof. A motorboat came by and the people in it said, "jump in, we'll save you". The man again said, "it's ok my God will save me". The flood waters increased and he climbed to the top of the antenna. A helicopter came by and lowered a rope for him but he waved it away again saying "God will save me".
The man drowned and came up to heaven where he asked God, "why didn't you save me from the flood?" God replied, " I sent you a rowboat, motorboat, helicopter..."

God does ask us to show His love in us through giving but He also promises us that He will feed and clothe us. We need to recognize when He is trying to do so.

Last night we recieved word that we would be recieving a sacrificial gift this week. What a wonderful blessing and at the same time, I feel so unworthy. It is especially hard knowing that there are people close to us with much excess who can't see their way clear to loan us gas money so we can get to work and back. But as I prayed last night that God would grant us wisdom on how to best use this gift, some things became clear at least to me. When we look in the bible at the great men and women of God, three things they each needed to learn. 1. How to listen to God. 2. Obedience. 3. Sacrificial Love. When we love God sacrificially, others will benefit, as God bestows that gift upon them.

I think the thing that is driving this "awakening" in me is that I always assumed God was asking me to sacrifically love, but it hasn't been until I have been asked daily that I have understood that getting myself out of the way is only part of the equasion. Part of the equasion is mentally, physically and spiritually grasping the concept that daily God asks us to love sacrificially. We in this country and I'm guessing the world over have enough trouble giving from our excess, especially to people we don't know, much less people we do know. But it isn't enough to give of our excess, we need to give sacrificially.

Consider the person suffering in the hospital, instead of praying Lord please heal this young person, why not pray, Lord what can I do to show your love to them. If God says pray, my money would be on healing, but what if he says, visit, or give blood or a kidney to a stranger you have been asked to pray for. I don't believe I have ever heard anyone pray for someone else and in that prayer ask God what they as an individual can do that another might have abundance in life. If we really see others the way Christ does, how many people would walk away from us feeling worthless or of no value, verse feeling of great value and worth. My husband often says, there is greatness in each and every person, I guess I see Love, God's love as an avenue to releasing that greatness, but we can't do it if we are afraid to Love with a sacrificial love or fear that the gift might be used "poorly", or whatever else we might use to excuse the message people recieve from us. Being poor, I know how valuable it is to recieve a gift of money and be trusted to use it wisely, or being that it is the Christmas season, being told that I can pick out a Christmas present for my children rather than to take only what others might want to give. The gift we give is a sacrifical love to God, we need to learn to trust God to bestow that gift on whomever needs it. (please understand that I am not suggesting that someone giving my children a Christmas present is not appreciated, but rather that there is a joy beyond understanding that a parent recieves when they watch their child open a present that they got to pick out, and seeing the joy and knowing that you were the one who knew your own child well enough to put that smile on their face, that is a very precious gift indeed.)

I appreciated your post, and it is very humbling to recieve a sacrificial gift. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi,

First of all let me say that everyone
is of worth even if you don't think so. I don't know you or your life, but i can tell you who, or whatever led you to believe you aren't worth
anything are completely wrong in what they said.
I believe self image has to do with the way you see yourself.
You've got to know that if you were the only person on earth, God would have still sent his Son to
save you. What does that tell you?
It tells me that you are valueable enough to God, That He would save you if there wasonlyYOU.
I think that makes you pretty special.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
I'm just stating a fact.
That fact is you're worth something to the One that created everything
you can see and everything you can't see.
When you look in the mirror you should see a child of the One that
gave you and everything else, life,
love and salvation. What does that say about your worth to God?
I can't by saying a single word
Convince you you have self worth.
You have to come to your own
realization of the fact that you're not a lowly creature.
Remember, God sees a wonderful thing in you, and because of that
has made a mansion for you in His kingdom.
Indeed what a person you must be.
Try to see what God sees in you.
That He would do those wonderful things He's done to give you a way to be with Him.
In my book, that's worth more
than we could ever dream.

Bless You,
Take Care,

Chuck.

Chuck, I guess this thread has and is becoming a kind of bear your soul thing for me, so what I am about to say is no reflection of your post, but thoughts and emotions that come when reading your post.

When I stop to think about who I am, honestly, I see God working through me and I could never in an entire lifetime ask for more from any person, but at the same time, I see when I fall. (most people argue with me, but I see it none the less) It is this, that makes me fear that someday I will stand before God and know my worst fear, that I am not worthy of the words, "well done my good and faithful servant". Oh how I long to hear those words from my master and king. I have no fear that I will enter glory and spend an eternity with my Lord. He promised me that, but I long and ack to hear Him say to me "well done my good and faithful servant". I would and will love Him no matter, but my fear is that I am only another that He has saved, and not one who personally knows and is intimately known, that I have a superficial relationship not a deep and abiding relationship. That I am only His servant and never His child. I think this stems from the always giving and seldom recieving. I get tired and I see in scripture where even Jesus withdrew to revive Himself, and ask why can't I just rest for a while. This tiredness leaves me feeling more like a servant and less like a child. Emotion I know, but a painfully honest look into my heart none the less. Maybe none of this is making any sense to anyone but me, sorry for rambling and I try to figure out where self worth and selfishes differ and where they overlap.

 

[Amin]

Hi Razzel Flabben,
You talk about when you fall, or let's say fail, that it causes you fear that God will not say: Well done my good and faithful servant:.
I've got to tell you that we here on earth are imperfect beings.
We are going to fall, and fail, there's no way to get around that.
That's why God offers forgiveness.
Since you are a saved person and a child of God, he sees you thru the blood of Christ.
That's what takes us from scarlet
to white as snow in the eyes of God.
There is nothing we can do here that's going to be perfect.
Which do you feel God looks on with more favor?
Someone who trys and falls, or someone that doesn't try at all?
I wouldn't worry to much about
falling, it's the fact that you try and are available that pleases God.
Chuck

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi Razzel Flabben,
You talk about when you fall, or let's say fail, that it causes you fear that God will not say: Well done my good and faithful servant:.
I've got to tell you that we here on earth are imperfect beings.
We are going to fall, and fail, there's no way to get around that.
That's why God offers forgiveness.
Since you are a saved person and a child of God, he sees you thru the blood of Christ.
That's what takes us from scarlet
to white as snow in the eyes of God.
There is nothing we can do here that's going to be perfect.
Which do you feel God looks on with more favor?
Someone who trys and falls, or someone that doesn't try at all?
I wouldn't worry to much about
falling, it's the fact that you try and are available that pleases God.
Chuck

I think your right, and I have a good friend who always tells me I am too hard on myself. But, I think that fear stems from all the negative images others have projected on me over the years. Kind of like the idea that if I am not even worthy of a parents love, what makes me worthy of anyones Love. The emotional side of me argues the "heart understanding" of me. Even this sacrificial gift we are expecting to recieve this week, is not for me but for our family. The emotional side of me says, it is not me who is recieving it, the rest of me says wow, so much is given back that makes my sacrifical giving look like nothing at all. It is in finding the balance that I struggle most. Consider this, last year I bought a cheap pair of tennis shoes so that I didn't face an Ohio winter with worn out sandles. (I hadn't bought a pair of tennis shoes for 16 years. In fact, my sandles are 7 years old and falling apart.) I felt guilty and still do even this year because there are so many other things that we as a family need. When does the needs of the family become my burden to sacrifice for and when does my "needs" of self become the burden of the family either related or church family either one. Why should I feel guilty for buying something I need, is that low self esteem and if it is, when does it become something else. Where is the dIviding line between sacrificial giving and selfishness?

 

[Amin]

I think your right, and I have a good friend who always tells me I am too hard on myself. But, I think that fear stems from all the negative images others have projected on me over the years. Kind of like the idea that if I am not even worthy of a parents love, what makes me worthy of anyones Love. The emotional side of me argues the "heart understanding" of me. Even this sacrificial gift we are expecting to recieve this week, is not for me but for our family. The emotional side of me says, it is not me who is recieving it, the rest of me says wow, so much is given back that makes my sacrifical giving look like nothing at all. It is in finding the balance that I struggle most. Consider this, last year I bought a cheap pair of tennis shoes so that I didn't face an Ohio winter with worn out sandles. (I hadn't bought a pair of tennis shoes for 16 years. In fact, my sandles are 7 years old and falling apart.) I felt guilty and still do even this year because there are so many other things that we as a family need. When does the needs of the family become my burden to sacrifice for and when does my "needs" of self become the burden of the family either related or church family either one. Why should I feel guilty for buying something I need, is that low self esteem and if it is, when does it become something else. Where is the dIviding line between sacrificial giving and selfishness?

Hi,
I honestly believe that if you give to the point that your family has to do without things, then it's wrong.
God doesn't want you to let your family go.
Sacrificial giving to me means giving more than you do and still make sure the families needs are met.
God in no way wants your family to suffer because of giving.
What you feel is right in your heart is what makes the difference, not what man says.
You shouldn't feel guilty about buying things you need. The key word being NEED. How would God feel if you gave lots of money and your family was hungry, or needed clothes?
I don't think that's what he wants.
Things really depend on how you feel in your heart.
If you feel right in your heart with God, then that's what I'd go with.
It's not selfish to provide a need for you or your family.
I remember a case in the papers.
A mans' son was in dire need of food and medical attention.
He had the money, but didn't use it to take care of his son.
He was keeping it for the church.
do you think this is rightor wrong?
I think the man was totally wrong.
So you don't sacrifice your families needs to give to the church.
You make sure your needs are met, then use what you can to give to the church.
I think feeling bad about buying something for yourself is neither selfish, or a case of low self-esteem.
The main point is; God doesn't want you to let yourself go to give to the churh.
Take Care.
Chuck.

 

[smiledaily]

I think I was a 2-3 on your scale a few year's ago, now I'm more like a 4-5 close to mid range.

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi,
I honestly believe that if you give to the point that your family has to do without things, then it's wrong.

Before I comment here, I beg you all to understand, I am not disagreeing or arguing with you, I am questioning and questioning is how I figure out things.

Another part to this equasion is what is suffering? Consider this, my eldest is 17, in his lifetime I have had enough winter clothes to play in the snow with him one time. One time in 17 years and then I had to limit my time with him to about 10-15 min. because I wasn't sufficiently dressed for winter. I guess what I am saying is that there are different kinds of suffering. I can ask him to suffer without proper coat or gloves or boots and then not get to go out to play so that we all have shoes to wear or, I can provide those things for him and ask him to suffer without a mother to spend time with. We face this dilema all the time with work, in todays work market, if you can find the jobs, it take at least 3 jobs if not 4 (depending on if you are lucky enough to find a "high" paying job) just to reach poverty level for our family. That means that both mom and dad are working 80 hours a week to meet basic needs for the family and that leaves the kids suffering without parents to spend time with. Which suffering is sufficient? Is it better to suffer without things we need and spend time with the kids, actually parenting them and building relationships, or to suffer without relationships so that everyone has food, heat, and roof? Who does without so that others may have.

I think that when we don't face the question of sacrificial giving, it is easy to see it as a black and white things, but when it is a daily decision, you understand that black and white is usally gray. Just like the job we had an oppertunity to have, only to have others pray that another would get it because they needed it too. Is suffering always bad, what if the family suffers for a time so that another can have a job only to be blessed later with abundance? I don't know, questions I ask everyday and I was hoping some of you could help me find answers too.

God doesn't want you to let your family go.
Sacrificial giving to me means giving more than you do and still make sure the families needs are met.
God in no way wants your family to suffer because of giving.

I am not sure about this, what if the family decides to suffer for another. Case in point, we have a family Christmas tradition, the family all agrees, that every year we will give something to Jesus for Christmas, it is an agreed upon thing, we even have a sock for Jesus. Now many years, the gift doesn't leave us without, but some years it absolutely does. The family agrees that the suffering is acceptable. It would not be honoring to God to do otherwise. This carries through in building relationships as well.

What you feel is right in your heart is what makes the difference, not what man says.

And yet, I cannot see another suffer knowing that I could do something, even at great expence to me, and not do it. Some of that is due to the Love in my heart and some due to the self image I have that I am not as worthy as others. It is in finding the line that I struggle with.

You shouldn't feel guilty about buying things you need. The key word being NEED. How would God feel if you gave lots of money and your family was hungry, or needed clothes?

I see your point about the family, but, in fact, if I buy that pair of shoes, I am causing the family to suffer. That is why I feel quilty. Sometimes when all you have isn't enough, you can give all you are and people still suffer. This then is the delima, when is it sacrificial love to say I will go without shoes and when is it selfishness to say I will buy that pair of shoes. It is a need, yet others in the family go without if I have what I need. When do you get to be selfish and say, it is my turn?[/quote]
I don't think that's what he wants.
Things really depend on how you feel in your heart.
If you feel right in your heart with God, then that's what I'd go with.
It's not selfish to provide a need for you or your family.
I remember a case in the papers.
A mans' son was in dire need of food and medical attention.
He had the money, but didn't use it to take care of his son.
He was keeping it for the church.
do you think this is rightor wrong?
I think the man was totally wrong.[/quote] I agree with you and unfortunately we see this everyday in extended family who has more than enough but refuse to offer any help. Case in point, a family member felt convicted to help and has more than enough resources and so after much prayer decided to give her tithe to us because she couldn't convince her husband to help. When he found out, he made her stop doing even that.

Another family member has a job in which he can get others on, the jobs pay well, when they were hiring, he told us and we went right away and applied for the job telling him so. Instead of putting in a word for us, he later said, you should apply for jobs when you hear about them.

So you don't sacrifice your families needs to give to the church.

Right, but what about to yourself, or others in the community that are suffering. Consider this, you have food for your family, but your neighbor is hungry, do you ask your family to eat less, thus going without milk or another meal so that your neighbor can fill their bellies as well? You won't starve to death, but you will go without food. When is it selfishness and when is it Love?

You make sure your needs are met, then use what you can to give to the church.
I think feeling bad about buying something for yourself is neither selfish, or a case of low self-esteem.
The main point is; God doesn't want you to let yourself go to give to the churh.
Take Care.
Chuck.

By church, are you referring to the local body, or the brothers and sisters in Christ, body of church? If the brothers and sisters in Christ church is what you refer to, then are we not responsible for them as we are our own families? Think about the early church how they shared their resourses, so that all had. Would this type of Love end a huge part of the suffering in the world? Would this type of Love be the kind of sacrificial Love God has called us each too? What definition of church are you refering to?

 

[razzelflabben]

Hi,

I believe self image has to do with the way you see yourself.

Seems to me that self image is an emotional response and the more we live in emotions, the more "dangerous" it is. Leaves us suseptable to things like suicide. So then, is self image more than an emotion? If not, is God a God of emotion or more? I have seen so many people live in the emotional side of God and neglect the sacrificial, life changing side of God. Anyway, moving on with more questions than answers.

You've got to know that if you were the only person on earth, God would have still sent his Son to
save you. What does that tell you?

I hear people say this all the time, but I fail to see it in scripture, where in scripture does this idea come from?

It tells me that you are valueable enough to God, That He would save you if there wasonlyYOU.
I think that makes you pretty special.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything.
I'm just stating a fact.
That fact is you're worth something to the One that created everything
you can see and everything you can't see.
When you look in the mirror you should see a child of the One that
gave you and everything else, life,
love and salvation. [/quote] When I look in the mirror, I see someone who fails, one who loves and yet hurts the one I love the most (God).

What does that say about your worth to God?

I can't by saying a single word
Convince you you have self worth.
You have to come to your own
realization of the fact that you're not a lowly creature.
Remember, God sees a wonderful thing in you, and because of that
has made a mansion for you in His kingdom.

So if God's value of me is all that there is to self worth? Let me tell you a story, some time ago I was told, that a great grandmother wanted to take a child out of an abusive home, but the grandmother convinced her that that would be wrong because it would stir things up in the family. Is God's value of that child all that is necessary? I know a young woman who was molested by the neighbor boy, the mother of the girl walked in on it, turned and walked out. Over time, she became a homosexual and was "ostrisized" from the "christians" in her life. Are you telling her that God's value of her is enough, even when she never sees it? A mother and father work long hard hours and watch as their children go without food and clothes, and people of wealth stand by and say if you were willing to work, you could have what we have, "go and sin no more". Are you saying that a God's worth is all that these people need? We are to be God's image, revealed to the world, if we don't value them, with the best the world has to offer, what does that tell them about God's love and value of them?

We have in our area, a Toy Time for families who can't afford gifts for their kids at Christmas. You know what, most of the toys are yard sale rejects many don't work properly from the moment they are opened on Christmas day, do you really think that the people recieving the gifts, are seeing the Godly worth you speak of? If I have to wait till heaven to see that I am valuable, I think you are missing the point.

 

[razzelflabben]

Seems to me that there are two kinds of self worth, The most common one talked about is that of emotional or feeling level in which the world has much to do with the value we see ourselves as having. It is a self worth that we as christians should be bestowing on the world around us by way of true self worth, the self worth that is not emotional, but inward. The inward self image is only known it would seem through the humble servanthood that God has called us to, also known as sacrifical love. It is the self worth that allows us to serve others without regrets and compalsion. It is self worth that comes directly from Christ not only from a head knoledge that He came to serve us, but the indwelling that transforms the individual.

Just some thoughts, I would love to hear your impressions of what I have seen.