Is self-defense a sin?

[eleos1954]

I was discussing the morality of self-defense with another Christian. They believed that violence of any kind, even self defense, is a sin. They used the teachings of Jesus to support their claims. Indeed, Jesus taught us to be non-violent and to turn the other cheek, he never once mentioned self-defense, at least not that I’m aware of. I told him there are many examples of God leading his people into war and verses stating the right to self-defense, but they said they were all verses from the Old Testament and therefore invalid.

I have always been a pragmatic pacifist, believing that conflicts should be attempted to be solved peacefully, with violence in the form of self-defense being the very last resort if peace absolutely can’t be achieved. I thought self-defense was condoned by God, but now I’m not sure.

So is it true? Is violence a sin no matter the cause or circumstance? Does God want us to be martyrs? Does he want us to let our families be killed instead of protect them if such a situation was ever to occur? I can’t imagine why God would want this from us. But if not, then why is it never mentioned in the New Testament? Please, any insight is appreciated, thank you.

I told him there are many examples of God leading his people into war and verses stating the right to self-defense, but they said they were all verses from the Old Testament and therefore invalid.

The OT is not "invalid" ... Jesus taught from the OT.

So is it true? Is violence a sin no matter the cause or circumstance?

In the context of self-defense (from direct threat)

Protecting one's self ....FROM violence of another (direct threat). Murder is different from protecting yourself. Murder requires preconceived intent. One may or may not end up killing a person to protect their life but that isn't murder. It's the motivation of the heart that is involved as far as sin goes .... if there is no way of escape .... to protect ones self is a natural response to end the violence being imposed on them .... not the one instigating the violence in the first place.

 

[Runningman]

But Jesus wasn't willing for angels to rescue him. He had authority, but no will to do so. So it's not justification at all for self-defense. We would have to look elsewhere for justification for self-defense. And I don't think you are going to find easy answers in the Bible.

An easy answer would be following example in Luke 22:36 where Jesus commanded them to get a sword. That's the equivalent of saying "Arm up." The purpose of a sword is for self-defense. I don't think Jesus was the type to saber rattle so I believe he was being serious.

 

[FireDragon76]

An easy answer would be following example in Luke 22:36 where Jesus commanded them to get a sword. That's the equivalent of saying "Arm up." The purpose of a sword is for self-defense. I don't think Jesus was the type to saber rattle so I believe he was being serious.

I don't think he was speaking literally. Jesus used hyperbole alot, as well.

 

[Divide]

An easy answer would be following example in Luke 22:36 where Jesus commanded them to get a sword. That's the equivalent of saying "Arm up." The purpose of a sword is for self-defense. I don't think Jesus was the type to saber rattle so I believe he was being serious.

David had a sling. Goliath had a sword. Jesus and his 12 Apostles didn't walk around unarmed. They had a couple swords.

Two is one, one is none.

And if anyone thinks that carrying an arm around demonstrates a lack of faith, let me tell you, there's lots of room for faith with a gun too! Pistols are almost not worth carrying in a way.

When someone shows up at the hospital shot by a pistol the try to stabilize him. Anyone comes in hit by rifle fire, they try to save their life. Pistols are for the most part woefully underpowered. Lot's of faith!

 

[Sir Joseph]

I was discussing the morality of self-defense with another Christian. They believed that violence of any kind, even self defense, is a sin. They used the teachings of Jesus to support their claims. Indeed, Jesus taught us to be non-violent and to turn the other cheek, he never once mentioned self-defense, at least not that I’m aware of. I told him there are many examples of God leading his people into war and verses stating the right to self-defense, but they said they were all verses from the Old Testament and therefore invalid.

I have always been a pragmatic pacifist, believing that conflicts should be attempted to be solved peacefully, with violence in the form of self-defense being the very last resort if peace absolutely can’t be achieved. I thought self-defense was condoned by God, but now I’m not sure.

So is it true? Is violence a sin no matter the cause or circumstance? Does God want us to be martyrs? Does he want us to let our families be killed instead of protect them if such a situation was ever to occur? I can’t imagine why God would want this from us. But if not, then why is it never mentioned in the New Testament? Please, any insight is appreciated, thank you.

I think everyone's presented the various points pretty thoroughly. I'll summarize that defending an innocent victim from an attacker would be an act of love consistent with scripture, while defending one's self has scripture implications that could be used to support both view points. For those interested, here's an excellent video on the subject:

 

[Divide]

I think everyone's presented the various points pretty thoroughly. I'll summarize that defending an innocent victim from an attacker would be an act of love consistent with scripture, while defending one's self has scripture implications that could be used to support both view points. For those interested, here's an excellent video on the subject:

That is a good video. He's very thorough to cover both the spiritual aspectd of it and the natural material world aspects also. Thumbs up!

We wrestle not against flesh and blood...unless their trying to kill us! So true.

That part where he came out of his house and shot the drunk 3 times with a shotgun for throwing a brick at his car! Lol! Tat was so funny!
That guy made TWO mistakes there. One was obvious, you don't shoot peope for throwing bricks at your car. Duh.
What was his other mistake?!

 

[zippy2006]

So is it true? Is violence a sin no matter the cause or circumstance?

No.

Those who reject the Old Testament commit the heresy of Marcionism, and such people are very common. Our world is full of slapdash one-size-fits-all theories, and pacifism is one of them.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I was discussing the morality of self-defense with another Christian. They believed that violence of any kind, even self defense, is a sin. They used the teachings of Jesus to support their claims. Indeed, Jesus taught us to be non-violent and to turn the other cheek, he never once mentioned self-defense, at least not that I’m aware of. I told him there are many examples of God leading his people into war and verses stating the right to self-defense, but they said they were all verses from the Old Testament and therefore invalid.

I have always been a pragmatic pacifist, believing that conflicts should be attempted to be solved peacefully, with violence in the form of self-defense being the very last resort if peace absolutely can’t be achieved. I thought self-defense was condoned by God, but now I’m not sure.

So is it true? Is violence a sin no matter the cause or circumstance? Does God want us to be martyrs? Does he want us to let our families be killed instead of protect them if such a situation was ever to occur? I can’t imagine why God would want this from us. But if not, then why is it never mentioned in the New Testament? Please, any insight is appreciated, thank you.

It's usually not a sin to call the police when threatened ...

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Police waited an hour for backup in the Uvalde shooting. That's an outdated tactic, experts say.

As new details emerged in the Uvalde, Texas, school shooting, experts questioned why police didn't storm the gunman more quickly and end the massacre.

www.nbcnews.com

Sure. Sometimes certain local officers aren't always doing the best they can to serve and protect the people of their communities. But even so, this doesn't mean that by some deductive default that it suddently becomes a virtue for Christians to don their latest Rambo apparel.

 

[Divide]

It's usually not a sin to call the police when threatened ...

No not a sin. But criminals usually do not allow the people they are robbing or home invading or whatever, to make phone calls.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

No not a sin. But criminals usually do not allow the people they are robbing or home invading or whatever, to make phone calls.

That's a good point. There's a lot which criminals don't do, and not infrequently to their own demise.

 

[Taker }SoC{]

As it is written, "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up." In addition to the many verses of the Old Testament which justify not just self-defense but also war. I think it is fair to assume that a man may protect his home and family from un-just violence.

Using Jesus' extreme passivism in the face of crucifixion I think is a bit miss-leading. Jesus had a job to do here, he was always meant to be martyred. Also, his violence would have been against the authorities of his time which is significantly different than defending yourself from a random thug on the street. Often times the disciples were either lead to flee from persecution or to allow it to happen and take joy that God has counted them worthy to suffer for his word. The Christian faith certainly does lead you away from violence, especially as an act of revenge, but I do not think that the New Testament forbids a man to use violence to protect his family.

 

[Divide]

There's a lot which criminals don't do, and not infrequently to their own demise.

You're so right.

Wait your turn. He'll turn his head soon, lol.

 

[anetazo]

Self defense is not sin. The apostles carried swords for protection.
Abner of second samuel, in self defense, killed joab brother. Neither God or king David imputed sin or wrong doing on Abmer.
Christian people are not second class citizens. We have God given right to protect ourselves and our family.
Proverbs, the righteous stand as bold as a lion.

 

[Aaron112]

Does God want us to be martyrs?

Yes, and believer immersed in Jesus' Name know they are martyrs already = they have no further fear of death.

 

[Aaron112]

The apostles carried swords for protection.

The only time one of them raised a sword to harm someone, He Was Rebuked By Jesus.

Jesus Says Clearly "Be Harmless as Doves"....

 

[Divide]

The only time one of them raised a sword to harm someone, He Was Rebuked By Jesus.

Jesus Says Clearly "Be Harmless as Doves"....

That would be I-Deal. But if the guy is breaking into my house or threatening someone in my family or charge, it's time to resist and not be harmless all of a sudden.

 

[Aaron112]

That would be I-Deal. But if the guy is breaking into my house or threatening someone in my family or charge, it's time to resist and not be harmless all of a sudden.

Is that a better option than trusting the Creator and Jesus ?

Others who had their homes broken into simply asked the breaker-in if they were hungry, and fed them. (yes, even if they were robbed or hurt by them). A much better example of truth, of Jesus Life and Testimony .)

Job 1:21
He said, “Naked (without possessions) I came [into this world] from my mother’s womb, And naked I will return there. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

James 1:2-8
Consider it nothing but joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you fall into various trials. Be assured that the testing of your faith [through experience] produces endurance [leading to spiritual maturity, and inner peace]. And let endurance have its perfect result and do a thorough work, so that you may be perfect and completely developed [in your faith], lacking in nothing. ...

Bible Hub:
"....and accepted with joy the spoiling of your possessions. In the spirit of Matthew 5:12 (Acts 5:41; 2Corinthians 12:10), they accepted persecution not with "patience and long suffering" only, but "with joy" (Colossians 1:11).

Hebrews 10:34 - A Call to Persevere

You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, knowing that you yourselves had a better and permanent possession.

biblehub.com

 

[Aaron112]

.... stick with Scripture please.
"....when the disciples were together, with the doors locked ..."

 

[Aaron112]

“Peace be with you!”

Peace...
not resisting the evil-doers....
UNworldly, UNcarnal, UNpopular, Truth

Matthew 5:39New International Version. 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. Read full chapter. Matthew 5:39 in all English translations.