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is Secular Music the devil's pulpit?

Discussion in 'Secular Music' started by prosperity4all, Aug 7, 2019.

  1. prosperity4all

    prosperity4all New Member

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    is Secular Music the devil's pulpit?
     
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  2. Stranger36147

    Stranger36147 Active Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    That has been the question many have asked for the last century. With the rise of jazz in the early 1900s, many have asked if it was evil. Some said yes and developed sophisticated doctrines about it, and even started including secular classical music in it.

    I grew up in the middle of the fight between church music (southern gospel) and rock. the rise of "Jesus Music" (now called CCM) and then the paranoia in the late 1980s and 90s on "New Age Music." (aka light jazz) I find this verse very applicable:

    Rom 14:14 I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
     
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  4. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    Secular music is more...the human heart -- is my guess: has a possibility to turn and do what is right, to love others, but also has a tendency to do what is wrong.

    Both.

    And there is plenty of songs were the person is simply seeking. And notice how very popular this kind of song tends to be, about seeking, when done well:

    This popular song is sorta like a cry: What's going on? I don't understand life yet. Something is missing. That's a promising start actually. Not a guarantee in itself, but at least it shows the pull.



    So, you don't throw out the baby with the bath water.

    You don't condemn the lost, but you bring them the good news.
     
  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    By definition, secular music, which is part of society, is pernicious. (worse than bad - it keeps people from seeking Jesus, and from coming to or seeking Yahuweh's Kingdom)
    Also as written, "what is born of the flesh, is flesh, and profits nothing".
     
  6. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    As a musician myself I have often wondered too. Our Messiah found me steeped in the music of the world. One of my memories when I first gave my heart to him was that every single song on the radio (yes secular) was praising him. It was a great sensation. And it freaked me out, in a good way. It was the beginning of learning how God was with me from the beginning and how he reaches us in our own place. He does not call us out to say 'find me here'. He comes in to where you are and says 'hey, hi'. And you go oh my! He's here even though i'm ...me.... a sinner. And then he leads you to your truth, a holy child of God. Shows you how you can be seen as clean and whole to God. Through love. I've found that it's never in condemnation, always in a loving fathers heart that he draws us.

    Secular music and devil's pulpit to me refer to divisions and oppositions. I prefer to see the reconciliation between divisions than focus on that which divides us out. The OP begs the question of opposition. Meaning it assumes the truth is that religious music is NOT the devil's pulpit. Such naive divisions ignore that even the law was used by the devil against the very people it was given.

    Can the devil use secular music as a pulpit, I believe so. Can the devil use religious music as a pulpit, why not? Just because it fits our label doesn't make it true. We are to discern all things by the Spirit that is given us, so as to prevent this type of deception. The deception of thinking oneself better than another, even 'in Christ'. But what happens when an entire community is lead astray? Secular or religious. Then we have an ever ensuing identity crisis that pits 'us against them'. And that is the very thing that God teaches against. He has brought unity through Yeshua not divisions. All of us are being reconcile to God through him. He divides the hearts so that we can be unified. He does not unify so that we become divided.

    So what if non-believers are being used by the devil to preach his divisions? Is not He who is in you greater than he who is in the world? Are we who are in Messiah not over comers through the Spirit given us? Are we not supposed to lead the lost to the light of Messiah? So what if the devil is using a non-believers heart? Prove to them that God can use a believers heart! :) Show them the real thing and the devils pulpit will dissolve beneath their feet. I know, that's what happened with me. I saw the real thing and He turned the devils pulpit into his own. Using the words from his pulpit even! All the narcissistic me me me love songs were now all singing about my love for Him! He has used the very MO of the devil against itself. The devil thought it was cool how he could use the very Torah of God to deceive the very children of God it was given to. Well, now I got to see how our Messiah used the very 'pulpit' as you see it against the devil. The devil could not stop God from using his songs to praise His holy name!
     
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  7. renniks

    renniks Well-Known Member

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    Every good and perfect gift comes from God. Music in itself is a gift from God then. The devil constantly tries to pervert what God has meant for good for evil. While God uses even things meant for evil for good. I can listen to Al Green sing h"can You mend a broken heart", and it will draw me closer to God, because truly only God mends broken hearts. Someone else might listen to it and only get depressed. Now obviously there are some songs that are just trash. But good poetry is all in the ears of the listener, we interpret it through our experiences. And in the Christians case, we should interpret it through the Holy Spirits leading. I'm not sure the line between secular and sacred is always as clear as some Christians think it is.
     
  8. PizzaAddict

    PizzaAddict Member

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    It is , from personal experience. The top pop musics always tend to have some witchcraft/satanic symbols or enchants shown in their videos no to mention most of music is nowdays pure garbage and mostly about sex , gunning somebody in streets or money...
     
  9. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    The actual reality in secular music is a lot of lostness and confusion and some evil and some actual seeking....

    Like the human heart, it's a complex human mix. But God intends that our hearts be turned, and then set to doing His work. Not destroyed, but redeemed. Not condemned, but rescued.
    Really it often is -- often it tries to pull the human heart in a wrong direction, towards more evil, to repeat evils, and such. And even by definition, if it on the other hand is seeking God, then is it really 'secular'? Well, at that point you have a matter of wording, of what you mean by 'secular'. Is it 'secular' to seek God? Well, most people would guess this song is 'secular', but, is it?


    Sometimes the pull is in a right direction


    Above I mentioned how secular music is often just the human heart.

    It came in to mind instantly, but I didn't write it above, that Christ told us that this same human heart flows with plenty of evil --

    Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, and slander.

    And consider more closely -- it's not from outside of us:

    20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

    Mark 7 NIV

    And even when we are loving our children, it still is present, still lurking there! --

    7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

    9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
    (italics added for highlighting)
    Matthew 7 NIV

    We are when lost still filled with evil even when loving our children. It's there, waiting.

    We need to born anew.

    So, the seeking songs are never a guide, never a touchstone, never the...Truth, but rather they show people being pulled at. They are a hopeful sign though, because He said to seek. These are His words to us all.
     
  10. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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  11. Citanul

    Citanul Well, when exactly do you mean?

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    This thread probably violates the first part of the Statement of Purpose, but I'll weigh in anyway.

    Don't judge secular music just by what gets played on the radio. There's plenty of music being produced today which doesn't deal with those topics.

    You can't simply paint secular music with a broad brush and say that it's all bad. Yes, there are songs with lyrics that aren't wholesome/moral, so some discernment may be required, but that's not necessarily a reason to reject secular music as a whole.

    In the end, it comes down to a personal conviction. If you feel that it's going to negatively affect your faith then don't listen to secular music. Just don't go around insisting that Christians shouldn't listen to secular music at all as aggressively promoting that opinion generally doesn't work particularly well.
     
  12. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    Condemning an entire dimension of music because some parts are offensive is absurd. It makes for very poor witness. It confirms the notion that Christians are insufferably authoritarian, legalistic, and self-righteous.
     
  13. LouiseChar

    LouiseChar New Member

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    I used to think this U2 song was OK for a Christian to listen to but now I do not know/do not think so.

    "I believe in the Kingdom come" "But I still havent found what i'm looking for" You believe and yet you still haven't found what you're looking for? hmm what are you looking for, bro?


    Yes the devil uses secular music BIG TIME!!

    Recently found out saving all my love from Whitney is about stealing a married man.

    And the "wholesome" Jonas Brothers "SLIPPING INTO THE LAVA"

    Examples are endless.

    Guard your hearts my friends. The devil is rife in these end times.
     
  14. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    It's a song of a seeker that hasn't yet found what he/she is looking for.

    After one finds, the song is only an old thing of the past, for the person that finds the Lord.

    See? The song is for someone that hasn't yet found our Savior.

    Should there be songs to help people without God remember that feeling buried inside that something is missing?

    Real question to you. I think yes. What do you think?
     
  15. LouiseChar

    LouiseChar New Member

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    Perhaps it could be for someone that is still searching for God, maybe, i'm undecided, because if you are earnestly seeking God and God sees your heart surely his Grace saves you and there is no doubt that will allow you to say I still haven't found what I am looking for because God will provide all you need unless you're looking for earthly richness.

    As for believers, in a world full of Joshua Harrises and Marty Sampson, listening to a song that allows room for doubt could be dangerous and validating your doubts.
     
  16. Halbhh

    Halbhh Everything You say is Life to me Supporter

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    It's not for after one finds what they are looking for -- but the song about remembering something is missing.

    It's because they haven't yet found Him, that's why the song appeals, works, is liked. It tugs the sleeping heart.

    It says:

    Something is missing. Search for what is missing.


    Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.

    See? It's only when we seek Him with all of our heart that we can find Him. That's so key. So, some (not all) need that tug at the heart that says: remember that sense of something missing....seek, search, for what is missing...you won't find it in the noise of the world.

    No amount of parties, no people, no places -- none of those have what is missing.

    At most this song is only an aid to remember that crucial true feeling that something is missing, a wake up song for the lost.
     
  17. LouiseChar

    LouiseChar New Member

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    Yes I agree about the heart that's why I said " God sees your heart surely his Grace saves you and there is no doubt that will allow you to say I still haven't found what I am looking for because God will provide all you need unless you're looking for earthly richness."

    What's you're saying sounds good that even though they've done all these secular things something is missing and it's great if someone comes to that stage and realised that what's missing is God. But I got to say that's not the message i'm getting by reading the lyrics:
    I have climbed the highest mountains
    I have run through the fields
    Only to be with you
    Only to be with you
    I have run I have crawled
    I have scaled these city walls
    These city walls
    Only to be with you
    But I still haven't found

    "only to be with you" so is "you" God or is it a love interest?

    "I have spoke with the tongue of angels" Doesn't it say the Holy Spirit helps you to speak in tongue? So they've had the Holy Spirit...and yet they still haven't found what they're looking for?

    "
    You broke the bonds
    and you loosened chains
    carried the cross of my shame, of my shame
    You know I believe it
    But I still haven't found
    What I'm looking for"


    Roman 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. So they believed in a sense that Jesus is Lord and he carried the cross for them, which should imply they have been saved, but yet they still haven't found what they are looking for? Unless they only believed some parts of what Jesus did?

    I don't know. I still think it would be best for someone that is unsure to hear a song that yes, touches on the way they are feeling now with doubt but yet concluded that yes I have found what I am looking for, Jesus is LORD, he is the truth.
     
  18. Citanul

    Citanul Well, when exactly do you mean?

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    It's not made clear exactly what it is that he's looking for, whether it's something spiritual or something more tangible. So it's possible that belief doesn't cover everything that he wants.

    But in any case, if you were make a list of songs that aren't OK to listen, there are so many other songs that would feature far more prominently.
     
  19. LouiseChar

    LouiseChar New Member

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    For sure
     
  20. WolfGate

    WolfGate Senior Member

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    I still haven't found the church to be "all the colors that bleed into one". No, even among God's people we still have division about the non-essentials. I haven't found Christians as a whole to be doing even a good job of reflecting Christ, of showing grace, of loving the strangers among them. I haven't found Christians as a whole to be willing to acknowledge that life is hard and there will be times of difficulty and struggle and even in that, yes, there is hope and Jesus is the answer, but that doesn't mean all of our hopes and desires for our time on this earth now become meaningless and invalid. Nothing in wanting our church and our mission as Christians and our time on earth to be better than what we have found cancels out our faith in Christ.
     
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