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Is Scripture MISSING Dogmas? (2)

SpyderByte

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Care to back up this off topic assertion?
 
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tadoflamb

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Care to back up this off topic assertion?

Their testimonies, like themselves, are scattered all over CF. In this thread the OP left the Church to become Lutheran, RickOtto left the Church to practice his singular version of Christianity and as for yourself, assuming you once were graced with the gift of being Catholic, have landed in a denomination which appears to have Calvinist leanings. Not really a compelling testimony to the unity of the Body which we read about in the Sacred Scriptures.

One thing you all have in common, however, is that leaving the Church seems to be your greatest moment of self-determination.

Now, how about that dogma where the Church and Christ are not one? You seem so convinced, surely your denomination has dogmatically defined it for us.
 
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SpyderByte

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I meant with actual facts not more assertions. But rc's tend to be quick with the assertions and slow with the facts...
 
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tadoflamb

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I meant with actual facts not more assertions. But rc's tend to be quick with the assertions and slow with the facts...

Fact: The OP was once Catholic is now a Lutheran
Fact: RickOtto was once Catholic is now not affiliated with any denomination
Fact: Albion was once Catholic is now Anglican

See the pattern?

Fact: Person leaving the Catholic Church do not all turn up in the same denomination with the same beliefs and practices. If they did, their collective testimony would be more compelling, but they didn't, so it's not.


Now, here's an assertion: Sola scripturist have no dogma unique to their tradition to which all sola scripturists assent.

Here's another assertion: Sola scripturists have failed to define dogma.

And here's my final assertion: Sola scripturists are incapable of defining dogma.
 
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topcare

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Just one.

How about just one dogma formulated by sola scripturists unique to the tradition of sola scriptura?

Just one.
How about this one for sola scriptureist: Thou shalt make up thy own thing. Pretty prevalent dogma in many evangelical camps even though those here will deny it like always
 
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Root of Jesse

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Ah! The familiar appeal to Sola Scriptura.

Unfortunately, you might have to rely on judicial tradition wherein facts speak for themselves.

Well, show it to me anywhere that has authority, how about that?
 
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Root of Jesse

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If that's the case, then the Catholic Church is also sola scriptura. But I don't believe it to be the case. At any rate, Scripture is used for verification of all Catholic dogmas, except for the TOC. We make sure no Catholic dogma goes against Scripture.
 
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Root of Jesse

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He did not say she was without sin. That is wishful thinking born of logical extremes.

Full of grace...if you're full of grace you have no room for sin.
 
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Rick Otto

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Your assessment of the testimony isn't compelling either. Mostly self-serving oversimplification.
The Church is not Christ, tho they are united.
You have simply guessed wrong about which church is His.
You seem a little too happy with your choice, as if you couldn't deal with the responsibility of understanding on your own, so you settled for giving that responsibility to what you privately interpret as unquestionably right.
The fact that your church is an actual kingdom of this world is lost on you.
So you demand dogma that can beat up your dogma.
One thing "you all" have in common is choosing to abdicate personal responsibility and abandoning self-determination
 
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Root of Jesse

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Yes, because your "college history professor who has authored about 30 books" is not authoritative.
I don't judge your heart, I judge what you say and how you say it. Your actions, in other words.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Yes, for you it was dogmatized by the Council of Trent. Thus, MoreCoffee's contention that the ToC is an unbiblical Protestant dogma is rather curious. We Protestants, as you know, have never held an ecumenical council to proclaim dogma.

Right, which is why it's hard to pin you down on what you believe.

But you mischaracterized More Coffee's contention. He said that the TOC of 66 books is an unbiblical Protestant dogma. You see, dogma does not come only when it is etched in stone at an ecumenical council. It is certainly defined there, but all our dogmas have been held since early on.
 
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Rick Otto

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Full of grace...if you're full of grace you have no room for sin.

Yep, that's what I meant by logical extremes.

Show me what scripture says anyone full of grace has no room for sin.

You can't. All you can show is scripture from which you leaped to arrive at your desired conclusion
 
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Root of Jesse

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That seems rather schizophrenic to me - holding personal beliefs which conflict with your peronsal faith. I do not have the problem. It helps that I do not have to conform to a denomination with dogmas quite outside my own personal views.

You don't have the problem because if it's hard for you to grasp, you toss it out the window. My personal views, and yours, for that matter do not matter one whit. Only Christ's matter, and those of the Church he entrusted to carry them forward. See, Jerome's personal view, for a time, was against the Deuterocanon. But he submitted to proper authority while he struggled, and when all was said and done, he didn't need to struggle anymore. My personal beliefs do not conflict with my faith. Actions do, at times, and struggling to reconcile them has its challenges. But I trust my Church to be right. And I cannot see where they have ever been wrong in matters of faith and morals. So when there's a 'conflict', my Mother is always right.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Who told you that what you believe is the truth? Anyone with authority?
 
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Rick Otto

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That is the myth "early on".
Part of the method of propagating that is to develope a schizophrenia about only the magesterium being "the church" as if the members are intellectually disposable when it serves the point.

I feel no need to be pinned down, but I know it makes a lot of people feel safer when pinned & when pinning.
 
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Root of Jesse

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How can they "dociley accept the teachings" they create? It's the old question of authority all over again. How can the rcc claim to be under scripture and tradition when it determines what those are?

No teachings created by anyone but Christ and his apostles, and their successors.
 
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Rick Otto

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Who told you that what you believe is the truth? Anyone with authority?

Your idea of what is and who has authority is "less than compelling".
Read psalm 19. Get back to me when understand it.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Yep, that's what I meant by logical extremes.

Show me what scripture says anyone full of grace has no room for sin.

You can't. All you can show is scripture from which you leaped to arrive at your desired conclusion

I can tell you that those with any grace worry about sin. I can tell you that someone who is full of grace has no room for anything else but grace, just as a glass full of water has no room for anything else. The grammar of the Greek word translated as full of grace shows that it always was and always would be true. Sort of like "As it was in the beginning is now, and ever shall be."
 
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Root of Jesse

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Your faith is very warm, fuzzy, and comfortable. Convenient for you. But that's not what Christ preached.
 
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