Is Salvation Universal?

[SweetAvenue]

It's been a very long time since I've been here, but I've been working through some stuff and I thought a little conversation would help. I'm almost convinced that salvation is universal, but I've believed that it isn't for so long that it just doesn't sit right with me. What do you guys think?

 

[fatboys]

It's been a very long time since I've been here, but I've been working through some stuff and I thought a little conversation would help. I'm almost convinced that salvation is universal, but I've believed that it isn't for so long that it just doesn't sit right with me. What do you guys think?

Salvation from the dead is universal. Every person ever born in this earth will be given salvation from the dead in the form of the resurrection. "Those that have done good unto the resurrection of life and those that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation" Since the fall of Adam which brought sin into the world all who have been born are subject to physical death. Because of the disobedience, Adam and Eve were cut off from the presence of the Father and thus they become spiritually dead. To overcome this spiritual death we must obey Gods laws to the best of our abilities, and become more Christ like. This salvation from spiritual death is not universal. It is conditional upon our efforts to obey God's laws.

 

[SweetAvenue]

But what happens when we die? I have a really hard time believing that people who just haven't heard of Jesus or babies that die shortly after birth are condemned to eternal suffering. What about people who are otherwise awesome but just don't believe?

 

[Aibrean]

But what happens when we die? I have a really hard time believing that people who just haven't heard of Jesus or babies that die shortly after birth are condemned to eternal suffering. What about people who are otherwise awesome but just don't believe?

No one is good but God. We don't know about babies or the unborn. The Bible is silent.

 

[Hillsage]

It's been a very long time since I've been here, but I've been working through some stuff and I thought a little conversation would help. I'm almost convinced that salvation is universal, but I've believed that it isn't for so long that it just doesn't sit right with me. What do you guys think?

I'd say go with what has "almost convinced" you. But then I've believed in Ultimate Salvation for all, for so long that it is the only thing that does sit right any more.

 

[Soulgazer]

But what happens when we die? I have a really hard time believing that people who just haven't heard of Jesus or babies that die shortly after birth are condemned to eternal suffering. What about people who are otherwise awesome but just don't believe?

It won't sit well with a lot of people,(it didn't the first time around either) but I would look at the parrable of the Good Samaritan for that answer.

BTW, "eternal suffering" theology developed sometime late in Christianities formative centuries under pagan influence. I subscribe to the older "Outer Darkness", which is reserved for those who scare children with stories of God torturing unbaptized babies forever and ever.

Ask yourself these two questions; if you were God, who would you torture? Are you more loving, merciful and compassionate than God?

 

[fatboys]

But what happens when we die? I have a really hard time believing that people who just haven't heard of Jesus or babies that die shortly after birth are condemned to eternal suffering. What about people who are otherwise awesome but just don't believe?

Shortly after the crucifixion of Christ, while his body was in the tomb his spirit went to the spirit prison where those that had died without the gospel were taught it so they could be judged according to men in the flesh. God is a just God. Every person will be given a chance to hear and accept or reject the gospel either in this life or in the spirit world while we await the resurrection. They will not have any advantage in the next life because there will be well intentioned people teaching their own version just as they do in this life. After death there is a partial judgment. those that have done evil go to the spirit prison. Those that have done good will go to paradise. The same place that the repentant Thief of the cross went after death. Little children before the age of accountability do not need to repent and are sinless. They go to the bosom of God.

 

[A New Dawn]

It won't sit well with a lot of people,(it didn't the first time around either) but I would look at the parrable of the Good Samaritan for that answer.

How does the parable of the good Samaritan suggest salvation is universal?

 

[williamgramsmith]

How does the parable of the good Samaritan suggest salvation is universal?

The parable of the good Samaritan demonstrates "who" is really in God's bosom.
That it is those who do the will of God, being in the service of others, not those who think they are the chosen or know the "truth".

He wasn't really talking about universal salvation, he was answering the question asked that he quoted, that being what about those who never know Christ, God, etc.

 

[Der Alte]

No one is good but God. We don't know about babies or the unborn. The Bible is silent.

Not really.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.​

 

[Der Alte]

It won't sit well with a lot of people,(it didn't the first time around either) but I would look at the parrable of the Good Samaritan for that answer.

BTW, "eternal suffering" theology developed sometime late in Christianities formative centuries under pagan influence. I subscribe to the older "Outer Darkness", which is reserved for those who scare children with stories of God torturing unbaptized babies forever and ever.

Ask yourself these two questions; if you were God, who would you torture? Are you more loving, merciful and compassionate than God?

God's nature is not determined by what fallible humans think is or is not merciful etc.

If "eternal suffering" theology developed sometime late in Christianities formative centuries under pagan influence" how is it that the Jews before, during and after the time of Jesus believed in a place of eternal punishment and they called it Sheol and Gehenna?

 

[Soulgazer]

God's nature is not determined by what fallible humans think is or is not merciful etc.

If "eternal suffering" theology developed sometime late in Christianities formative centuries under pagan influence" how is it that the Jews before, during and after the time of Jesus believed in a place of eternal punishment and they called it Sheol and Gehenna?

They didn't. The temple Jews didn't believe in an afterlife at all, until the Pharisee adopted some Greek and Egyption theologies after the Hasmonean dynasty. The Sadducee were never Hellenized, and so never even accepted the idea of an afterlife at all. The idea of an afterlife didn't infiltrate Temple Judaissm at all until around 200bc.

"Flaming Hell" was popularized by "the Apocalypse of Peter" a work from the apocalyptic sect of Hellenized Jews who were pretty wierd by anybodies standards. And even at the end of that book, the visionary angel confessed that it was not real but just a threat to keep everybody in line.


As a non-sociopathic human being, I am fully aware of what "Mercy" is, and if was not a legitimate question, you should probably go get yourself checked out. If it was legitamate, I hope I gave you an informative answer.

 

[joneysd]

I personally believe that under an age, around 12, basically becoming responsible for your own actions, you are saved, so anyone under that age, I personally include people of a lower mental age due to illness who may be incapable of making a conscious decision to accept Jesus are saved.
After that you must accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour before you die, I believe the only reason Jesus had to preach to those in hades is because they never had the chance to hear him as they died before Jesus was on the earth, so he preached to them to level the playing field so to speak but after that time you must accept Jesus, you have the rest of your life to make that decision but after death you cannot make that choice.

 

[Aibrean]

Not really.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.​

Firstly, that verse is out of context. Check out http://preachersfiles.com/would-you-please-explain-romans-415-and-513/, it's explained pretty well.

Think of Adam and Eve. The law was to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They did, breaking the law, resulting in their exile from Eden (and a slew of other things).

That doesn't apply to children who might have heard the gospel, but may be too young to understand/vocalize. My comment was specific to children.

Mark 10:18
English Standard Version (ESV)
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

 

[RisingSpirit]

I personally believe that under an age, around 12, basically becoming responsible for your own actions, you are saved, so anyone under that age, I personally include people of a lower mental age due to illness who may be incapable of making a conscious decision to accept Jesus are saved.

What cult told you that all 10 year olds are saved?

​

 

[joneysd]

What cult told you that all 10 year olds are saved?

​

I've always believed it.

 

[RisingSpirit]

I've always believed it.

Then The Flying Spaghetti Monster planted that in your head.

​

 

[joneysd]

Then The Flying Spaghetti Monster planted that in your head.

​

hmmm flying spaghetti monster, where have I heard that before.

 

[joneysd]

I cannot think of a incident when Jesus preached salvation to children, if it were necessary I assume it would have mentioned it.

 

[A New Dawn]

The parable of the good Samaritan demonstrates "who" is really in God's bosom.
That it is those who do the will of God, being in the service of others, not those who think they are the chosen or know the "truth".

He wasn't really talking about universal salvation, he was answering the question asked that he quoted, that being what about those who never know Christ, God, etc.

I agree that those in God's bosom will demonstrate their faith with good works, but not all who do good works do them because they are in God's bosom. Some do them to avoid paying taxes (charitable donations). Some do them to appear better in the eyes of others. That is why the scriptures make it clear that salvation is not based on works, but rather works stem from salvation.

Knowing the truth doesn't make one chosen, but being chosen makes one want to know the truth. Which is essential since we are called by Christ to teach others of Him. How can we teach others of Him if we don't know Him?