Sir if you have not followed any of God's commands fully or perfectly, how can you be saved?
Okay. First, I cannot stress enough the importance to you in that a person cannot be saved without God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ (i.e.
By accepting Jesus as their Savior, and believing in His death, burial, and resurrection on their behalf, and in seeking forgiveness of their sins with Him by way of prayer). That is the entrance gate to salvation, and that is the foundation upon which we stand. For if a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they do not do a good work to offset that sin, but they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus (See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, Proverbs 28:13). We also continue to trust in Jesus as our Savior through out our lives. Faith (Belief) in Christ is the foundation of our faith. But this kind of faith proves itself true by works of faith. Without works of faith, one merely has an empty profession in Christ (Whereby they are not living a life that aligns with what they believe).
Second, show me a Bible verse that says that you have to follow ALL of God's laws perfectly to be saved. You will not find it. See, this is where you drop the ball, my friend. You do not understand that not all of God's commands are tied with punishment in the Lake of Fire for disobeying them. Granted, I am not saying for you or anyone to disobey any of God's smallest commands, but my point is that not all sin leads to death. For 1 John 5:17 says there is a "sin not unto death." Paul was not condemned when he disobeyed the Spirit's command to not to go to Jerusalem. Water baptism is not a command that leads to spiritual death (1 Peter 3:21). Jesus even said that there are degrees of sin. For Jesus said there is a greater sin (John 19:11). Jesus said the Pharisees ignored the WEIGHTIER matters of the Law like love, faith, justice, and mercy (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42).
You said:
You have said repeatedly that you must follow God's commands to be saved.
Yes. Those commands by GOD in the New Testament (primarily) (Note: Not the ceremonial laws from the Old Testament like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws, for these things have been nailed to the cross - See Colossians 2:14-17, Galatians 5:2, and Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). For Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
We are New Covenant believers and not Old Covenant believers. Paul preached against going back to the Old Law or the 613 laws given to Israel and Paul preached against the false Pharisee religion that denied God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ (or the Messiah). The false Pharisee religion made salvation all about works alone and it de-emphasized God's grace and or nullified it completely. In essence, they taught true Works Alone Salvationism (Which is why Paul spoke in the way that he did in Romans, Galatians, Titus, and Ephesians). Paul was NOT speaking against the process of Sanctification that takes place AFTER being saved by God's grace.
So what you will not find in the writings of Paul is him attacking Sanctification (Holy living, and or good works of the Spirit) done through the believer for salvation after a person is saved by God's grace. Paul is attacking "Works Alone Salvationism" that attempts to deny the Justification Process in coming to Jesus for the first time, and or trying to go back to the false Pharisee religion that made salvation about being justified by the Law Alone (without God's grace) via by circumcision as the basis for one's salvation and or entrance gate into being a part of God's kingdom. To be justified by circumcision means one is trying to be saved by the Torah alone and not by God's grace.
The Torah or the 613 laws of Moses is not a set of commands that is no longer in effect as a contract anymore as a whole. Yes, certain laws have been repeated in the New Covenant, or New Contract, but the New Testament is what we primarily look to in order to follow and obey the Lord.
Believers have to meet the bare minimum level requirement of holiness as defined in the New Testament or New Covenant. Any command that is broken (sin) that leads to the mention of spiritual death, and or condemnation in the afterlife must be obeyed in order to maintain God's saving grace (after one has been saved by His grace). A person cannot obey GOD without first being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. There are commands that the Bible mentions that are not tied with spiritual death or condemnation that do not appear to be a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor. While I am not encouraging any believer to make light of even God's smallest commands, I believe that we can only be condemned by those sins that God specifically mentions within His Word. For in John 12:48, Jesus says that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day.
You said:
So I am just trying to understand your view. I really don't understand how you can believe in both grace and works. And I don't think the Bible understands that perspective either.
Again, God's grace is in harmony with good works and or holy living. Titus 2:11-12 says the Grace of God teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Ephesians 5:25-27 says that the reason why Christ died for us was as to sanctify and wash us with the water of the Word (Scripture) so as that He may present to Himself a church that is holy and blameless. Romans 5:21 says that grace reigns (rules) through righteousness (i.e. righteous living). For 1 John 3:7 says he that does righteousness is righteous. In fact, we are told not to be deceived about that fact within 1 John 3:7. Yet, I hear the cry from the Belief Alone Only camp that says that we are only made righteous by believing in the finished work of Christ and it is in nothing that they do. Little do they realize their belief.... does not line up with Scripture (i.e. 1 John 3:7).
You said:
Can you point to a verse that specifically says we are saved by both grace and works?
2 Thessalonians 2:13 says,
"...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
This verse says that GOD has chosen us to salvation by two things.
#1. Belief in the truth.
#2. Sanctification of the Spirit.
Belief in the truth is believing in Jesus because Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). The words "Sanctification of the Spirit" is in relation to progressive work in a believer's life to help them to live holy in this life if we are to go by the immediate context.
(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).
In this verse we see the polar opposite thing being contrasted with 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Not believing in the truth (vs. 12) is contrasted with believing in the truth (vs. 13). Having pleasure in unrighteousness (i.e. sin) (vs. 12) is contrasted with the Sanctification of the Spirit (vs. 13).
(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).
In this passage, we see, two things mentioned again. This time it is mentioned in the proper order. We have a good hope through his grace, which then.... establishes us in every good word and work. Good works. So grace... and then good works (i.e. Sanctification of the Spirit).
But just having good works is not enough. You have to live holy and you cannot justify grievous sin (like lying, hating, lusting, etc.) and or abide within it in some way. For Jesus says to those believers in Matthew 7:21 who did wonderful works in his name to depart from Him because they worked iniquity or lawlessness. So they had good works (or so they thought), but they also worked sin and or iniquity, too. This is why Jesus says for them to depart from Him. For Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.
See, the problem I have in what you believe is that you do not accept the whole counsel of God's Word. For example: In the Google Document you gave before on Lordship Salvation had a commentary on those verses. I don't know if you wrote the commentary or somebody else did. But your posting of the Google Document means you agree with the commentary. This is problematic at best because the commentary is simply a denial of what those verses plainly say. The commentator offered no alternative rational explanation to those verses but they simply mocked those verses in what they said (in the fact that they propose that no person can obey such instructions when there is no ending thought or conclusion saying that this is so).
You said:
I doubt you can especially when romans 11:6A specifically says "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works" and goes on to say "it is no longer of grace." if it is of works.
A man who has a blindfold on and they are feeling the trunk of an elephant and they say that the elephant is a like a fire hose and they do not realize that there is more to the elephant. Paul here is referring to only one aspect or part of salvation (Which is the Justification Process). The Justification Process is without works and it is founded on God's grace. We are saved FIRST by God's grace through faith in Christ and it is not in anything that we did within the Justification Process. Sanctification Process is an entirely different process that happens AFTER we are saved by Justification. But if you were to take all of Paul's words into consideration, this grace is not a license for immorality. Paul asks the question: Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's reply to that question is: "God forbid." Paul then mentions how we are either slaves to sin or we are slaves to righteousness in Romans 6. In Romans 8:13 Paul says that if you live after the flesh (sin), you will die (die spiritually), but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally). Paul says that we can deny God by a lack of works in Titus 1:16. Paul says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus, and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
You said:
Because romans 11:6 specifically says we are not saved by both.
"And if by grace, then
is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if
it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:6).
This is in context or view of "Works ALONE Salvationism."
Paul is referring to Israel in Romans 9, Romans 10, and Romans 11.
Most commentators will tell you this fact, and or it is obvious if you re-read the chapters several times and get a feel for them. For they mention and refer to Israel, and the hope that they may be saved. So what is Israel's problem? They reject the Messiah or God's grace. At the time, the Pharisees believed that they could be saved by works alone or by following the Torah Law alone without God's grace. Paul was focused on Israel meeting the requirement of the Justification Process in light of their false belief in Works Alone Salvationism. The Justification Process is God's grace without works, which is in direct opposition to their trying to save themselves by works alone. Paul is not referring to the Sanctification Process AFTER we are saved by God's grace, and he does not bring up the Sanctification Process yet because he does not want to confuse them. For they first need to be saved by God's grace through faith without works before they can enter the Sanctification Process. Paul mentions Sanctification as being necessary for salvation elsewhere (2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:1, Romans 8:13).
But you think Paul is referring to the whole life of the believer here, and he is not. Is Paul talking about Glorification verses here? We both agree on those verses on Glorification because those verses talk about how God saves us by taking us home and in bring us into His Kingdom and in one day giving us a new body that is eternal. A person could make the case that Glorification is false because we are only saved by God's grace through faith in Christ. But that would be silly, right? Because that is a different process of salvation.
You said:
The attachment is not working for me to see it. I think you have the file set on private (Whereby only you and or others you select can see it).
In either case, may the Lord's love shine upon you today (even if we disagree strongly on this topic still).
Peace, and blessings to you in the Lord, in the name of Jesus.