Is salvation by faith or by election?

[bcbsr]

You will never hear a Calvinist say this. You are misrepresenting Calvinism.

Institutes of the Christian Religion Chapter 21.
Of the eternal election, by which god has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction. (title is calvin's)
"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation"

 

[bcbsr]

So what you are saying: that the billions of people now in hell, or are to go there in the future were actually created for that purpose - to be tortured in hell for eternity? Why would God created billions of people for that purpose? Does that sound like a monster of a God you'd want to believe in? Or is the God of the Bible different?

Yep, and there lies the issue which Calvinists are largely blind to.

Institutes of the Christian Religion Chapter 21.
Of the eternal election, by which god has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction. (title is calvin's)
"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation
Also Calvin claims such election is not based on foreknowledge of events.

"The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny; but it is greatly caviled at, especially by those who make prescience its cause."

The idea of preordaining people to eternal damnation prior to them even being born is particularly disturbing as that would mean that God condemns the innocent insomuch as he condemns people for crimes they hadn't yet committed. And since election is not based on foreknowledge according to Calvin (which he calls "prescience"), their condemnation is not based on sins committed but rather upon God's arbitrary whim, which portrays the god of Calvinism as being unjust.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Apparently you're unfamiliar with the Calvinist doctrine of election. God's foreknowledge doesn't enter into it.

Institutes of the Christian Religion Chapter 21.
Of the eternal election, by which god has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction. (title is calvin's)
"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation"

"The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny; but it is greatly caviled at, especially by those who make prescience its cause."

That describes a monstrous, evil, caricature of God, and not the God of the Bible who sent His only Son to die for all men and who gives the invitation to salvation to all who choose to believe in Him.

Paul says that men will arise among the church teaching perverse doctrines to draw disciples away after themselves.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yep, and there lies the issue which Calvinists are largely blind to.

Institutes of the Christian Religion Chapter 21.
Of the eternal election, by which god has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction. (title is calvin's)
"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation
Also Calvin claims such election is not based on foreknowledge of events.

"The predestination by which God adopts some to the hope of life, and adjudges others to eternal death, no man who would be thought pious ventures simply to deny; but it is greatly caviled at, especially by those who make prescience its cause."

The idea of preordaining people to eternal damnation prior to them even being born is particularly disturbing as that would mean that God condemns the innocent insomuch as he condemns people for crimes they hadn't yet committed. And since election is not based on foreknowledge according to Calvin (which he calls "prescience"), their condemnation is not based on sins committed but rather upon God's arbitrary whim, which portrays the god of Calvinism as being unjust.

1 Timothy 4:1 makes it quite clear where doctrines like these come from:
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons"

 

[StevenBelievin]

Institutes of the Christian Religion Chapter 21.
Of the eternal election, by which god has predestinated some to salvation, and others to destruction. (title is calvin's)
"All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation"

That doesn't say that they are saved before they are saved. They still have to believe and accept Jesus for salvation.