Is salvation a process?

[stiller]

Paul Washer says if you really got saved will only be obvious if a few years from now you're still repenting and still following Jesus and still doing this and doing that and even to a greater degree than you are doing now. (if you don't believe he said that please watch those vids in my signature)

Now if Washer is right you can never really know if you're saved. You may be doing totally well now but what if a year from now you find yourself in sin? What if you lose your job and end up drinking and going to a prostitute after having been a "great" christian for years? Well, then you probably never were saved because we all know that a "real christian" could never do such a thing, right? The only thing I don't understand is what about David? He got a man killed in order to have his wife. Weird, I guess this means David also wasn't saved. Yeah, now it makes sense. I feel so free now. This is the almost too good to be true gospel. Life is suddenly so easy. No more burdens, no more pressure. No more being afraid.

 

[briareos]

No it's not.

 

[razzelflabben]

To bad this isn't a discussion thread, it would make a great theological debate...none the less, let me offer this to you.

Maybe growing in the Spirit isn't about loosing anything but rather it is about what we gain. consider this...when I enter a relationship, I expect it to grow and mature and if, 3, 4, 5 years down the road, we have the exact same relationship we did the first day we met, I wouldn't think much of the relationship or of the person I claimed to love. Salvation is about a relationship, as such, if it doesn't grow and mature and develop, we are missing one of the most beautiful things about relationships...the intimacy.

Just a thought for what it's worth.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

I don't know if you can lose your salvation or not, I'm not God and I don't know His judgements. I have come to believe that if you have truly been born again you cannot lose it, but I'm still on the fence. There are many verses in the bible that speak of apostasy and there being no hope for those who reject Christ after coming to the knowledge of the truth so I really don't know.

 

[briareos]

Not to start a discussion on OSAS but I find Paul and the rest of the disciples teaching the church to not sin because sin leads to death far to much to believe that death was no longer a possibility.

I also find some scriptures to pretty clear say apostasy is real and that it can happen. The problem is not believing OSAS is not equal to believing in salvation by works.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

Not to start a discussion on OSAS but I find Paul and the rest of the disciples teaching the church to not sin because sin leads to death far to much to believe that death was no longer a possibility.

Sin can lead to "death" in more ways than just physical death. Sin brings spiritual death, death of peace, death of joy, death of a marriage, death of relationship. I think that is what Paul meant. But of course it could bring death eternally as well.

 

[briareos]

Spiritual death is what I was referring to.

 

[stiller]

There are many verses in the bible that speak of apostasy and there being no hope for those who reject Christ after coming to the knowledge of the truth so I really don't know.

But is sinning the same as rejecting Jesus?

 

[razzelflabben]

But is sinning the same as rejecting Jesus?

Intentional sin is...

 

[briareos]

No it is not the same as rejecting Jesus.

Paul said he did those things he did not want to do and could not do what he wanted to do so he found a law in himself that the desire to do good was in him, but the flesh was present. John said we all have sin and if we say we don't were liars.

 

[stiller]

Intentional sin is...

Oh so you have never since you became a christian sinned knowing that what you do is a sin? Right....

This would mean if a christian watches porn and knows that it's a sin he's out cause he sinned intentionally. What a messed up theology. Then hardly anyone would be a christian anymore cause all would have lost it on the way.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

But is sinning the same as rejecting Jesus?

No. Sinning is human nature that must be dealt with, rejecting Christ is a satanic rebellious act against God and His grace and mercy.

 

[BFine]

Paul Washer says if you really got saved will only be obvious if a few years from now you're still repenting and still following Jesus and still doing this and doing that and even to a greater degree than you are doing now. (if you don't believe he said that please watch those vids in my signature)
*What does the bible say about all that?

Now if Washer is right you can never really know if you're saved. You may be doing totally well now but what if a year from now you find yourself in sin? What if you lose your job and end up drinking and going to a prostitute after having been a "great" christian for years? Well, then you probably never were saved because we all know that a "real christian" could never do such a thing, right?
*People slack off in their faith walk, just like they do at other things in their life. When you put off reading your bible, skip out on praying for a few days/weeks and you don't attend "church"...your "spirit man" goes "hungry" it is at this time that the "enemy" gets an opportunity to throw a "monkey-wrench" into your life. That's how people get "derailed". Working out your salvation is a daily "job".

I don't follow Paul Washer(I have heard clips of him) and I don't go around quoting to many folks on their opinion of spiritual matters etc.
I quote more scripture verses than anything else.
I have know too many folks who got off-track following ministers and relying on their word to be The Word.

The only thing I don't understand is what about David? He got a man killed in order to have his wife. Weird, I guess this means David also wasn't saved. Yeah, now it makes sense. I feel so free now. This is the almost too good to be true gospel. Life is suddenly so easy. No more burdens, no more pressure. No more being afraid.

*David was being idle around the palace, his men were off at war...he should of been with his men (he use to be there.)
David got slack, he rested on his "laurels", he wasn't in prayer, or writing inspirational poems/songs, he wasn't "having a one on one" chat with the Lord.
David was looking for something...picture him strolling on the rooftop of his palace(surveying his domain) and he spies a bathing beauty(literally!) David gives into his lust and inquires about who she is and even though he is told she is Uriah's wife, he orders for her to be brought to him anyway! He is bound and determined to have her!

It is only after he is "confronted"(by the prophet Nathan) that David seeks the Lord and repents. I have wondered about the point at which he stopped having fellowship with God?

*Interesting nugget to add... Bathsheba is listed as the wife of Uriah in the genealogy of Jesus (location point --Matthew 1:6)

 

[razzelflabben]

Oh so you have never since you became a christian sinned knowing that what you do is a sin? Right....

This would mean if a christian watches porn and knows that it's a sin he's out cause he sinned intentionally. What a messed up theology. Then hardly anyone would be a christian anymore cause all would have lost it on the way.

intentional, with purpose, iow's sometimes I do sin, but I am not setting out to commit sin...I don't wake up one morning and say, "good morning God, I think I will defy you and go out and sin today, just to test your love you know"...As the previous poster mentioned Paul, let's look at what Paul says, the things he does he does not want to do...iow's he isn't intentionally sinning, it is just that he is not free from the bondage of sin in his life. Not the same thing at all.

BTW, I heard a Jewish Rabbi say one time that sin to the Jew is like temporary insanity, one must be insane to sin against a holy God...I think it sums up what I said pretty well.

 

[briareos]

intentional, with purpose, iow's sometimes I do sin, but I am not setting out to commit sin...I don't wake up one morning and say, "good morning God, I think I will defy you and go out and sin today, just to test your love you know"...As the previous poster mentioned Paul, let's look at what Paul says, the things he does he does not want to do...iow's he isn't intentionally sinning, it is just that he is not free from the bondage of sin in his life. Not the same thing at all.

BTW, I heard a Jewish Rabbi say one time that sin to the Jew is like temporary insanity, one must be insane to sin against a holy God...I think it sums up what I said pretty well.

My post was not directed at you, I understand the difference. I was pointing out that sin is not indicative of rejecting Jesus. I was not saying that someone who pursues sin has not chosen sin over Jesus and regardless the nature of the sin, if we confess and repent and call on the name of the Lord we shall be saved.

 

[razzelflabben]

My post was not directed at you, I understand the difference. I was pointing out that sin is not indicative of rejecting Jesus. I was not saying that someone who pursues sin has not chosen sin over Jesus and regardless the nature of the sin, if we confess and repent and call on the name of the Lord we shall be saved.

I figured that out, I was responding to stiller who took my comment about intentional sin to mean all sin...and yep, we can repent and call upon the Lord and be forgiven....Praise His Holy Name

 

[briareos]

Amen sister!

God prevails.