Is Remaining in Illness God's Will?

[ByronArn]

Many use the example of the thorn in Paul's side as Scriptural proof that sometimes its God's will that Christians remain with chronic illnesses. My view is that the thorn in his side was a demonic being tormenting Paul because of the phrase "messenger (same Greek word meaning angel) of Satan" used in the text. People remain in illness because they do not ask in faith for healing. In the Bible, we don't see people remaining in illness, but rather healed!

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

 

[Optimax]

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

NO!

 

[Frogster]

the problem is this. The ill person has faith, they have asked to be healed, for the most part they are charismatic, they beleive in healings, so no one can blame their faith. But when after years go by, and they are not healed, they are then condemend, because they "don't have faith"!

But in this abusive scenario the pastor or healer is never blamed for the unhealed, like somehow their faith is not part of the equation, all while peter said, we have been given the same kind of faith, in 2 peter 1:1, peter who healed an unbeliever looking for money at the temple in Acts 3, Peter just did it. he did not need the faith of the lame man.

So where is the faith of the "healer"? Why are the ill blamed?

 

[FoundInGrace]

Many use the example of the thorn in Paul's side as Scriptural proof that sometimes its God's will that Christians remain with chronic illnesses. My view is that the thorn in his side was a demonic being tormenting Paul because of the phrase "messenger (same Greek word meaning angel) of Satan" used in the text. People remain in illness because they do not ask in faith for healing. In the Bible, we don't see people remaining in illness, but rather healed!

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

yes sometimes I believe it is definitely God's will that some remain in illnesses.

In John 9:1-3 Jesus answers this I believe:

As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.


The blind man was blind not because of sin but so that the Glory of God would be shown in his life. i imagine he asked God for healing for many years probably in faith too. and yet all those years when he asked, God did not heal him. It was not God's timing for His Glory to be seen in his life yet.

During those years i wonder how much he had suffered at the hands of religious people, i wonder how many people had told him he didnt have enough faith and needed to somehow find some more, i wonder how many hundreds of people had told him he had unrepented sin in his life, i wonder how much undeserved blame for his blindness he had had to carry and live with as God did not heal him for those many years - because it wasnt yet God's timing for God's glory to be seen in his life.

so yes sometimes I believe it is definitely God's will that some remain in illnesses.

it has nothing to do with the person's faith or unrepented sin (they have plenty of faith and have repented of sin so they are not to blame as everything is fine as it was with the blind man) but it has everything to do with God's will that they remain in illness for that time.

 

[Christophercbm]

There is only one thing guaranteed in life and that is death. So that means healings are not guaranteed. No matter how much faith you have, one day you are going to decay and die. Does God heal people? Absolutely, but there is no guarantee regardless of faith. Why are some people healed and some people are not? I dont know, why did God protect Peter and keep him alive, but allowed Stephen to be stoned to death? People with bare minimum faith have been healed before and people with all the faith in the world have not been healed before. Sometimes God is just ready to call someone home, while other times, he still has plans for people on earth.

 

[Juelrei]

Many use the example of the thorn in Paul's side as Scriptural proof that sometimes its God's will that Christians remain with chronic illnesses. My view is that the thorn in his side was a demonic being tormenting Paul because of the phrase "messenger (same Greek word meaning angel) of Satan" used in the text. People remain in illness because they do not ask in faith for healing. In the Bible, we don't see people remaining in illness, but rather healed!

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

I agree that Paul's thorn in the flesh was a demonic messenger sent to buffet/harass/prevent him from overcoming the situation.

Faith for healing is meant to be ongoing. With God's word, we can store up a treasure of health before we need it. Then when we need it, obtain it when we go to the throne of Grace.

 

[mourningdove~]

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

My view is this:
We are to trust God. Always, in all things, including illness, we are to trust God.

And my view is this also:
We are to rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks.

Of these 2 things I am sure.

 

[Always in His Presence]

No

There is zero, none, nada NT scriptures of anyone ever asking for healing and not getting healed.

 

[Frogster]

paul preached the gospel out of illness, gal 4:13. We don't have to argue about a thorn, who would not get sick after reading all about what paul just described in chapter 11, floating in water, his back opened up 5 times, leaving him exposed to infection, hunger, working at night without sleep, robbers, getting stoned, beaten with rods, chucked into filthy jails. Who would not get sick after all that!?

He said he is content with those afflictions in chapter 12, as he said in 11:30. obviously the thorn were all the sufferings that the grace was given too.

 

[Frogster]

Jesus still heals, but....all things work together for the good, we would not have Galatians, as called the Magna Carta of our faith, if Paul were not ill.


1 Tim 5:23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

2 Tim 4:19 Greet Prisca and Aquila, and the household of Onesiphorus. 20 Erastus remained at Corinth, but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus.


Gal 4:13 but you know that it was because of a bodily illness that I preached the gospel to you the [k]first time;

 

[JimB]

Since I no longer believe that physical healing is in included in the atonement and, therefore, it is always God’s will to heal the sick (thought, certainly, sometimes it is), I now have no problem realizing that there are times when God’s will is accomplished through an illness. Physical healing is temporary at best and the atonement purchases our eternal redemption. and we will continue to ward off illness until we receive our redeemed bodies. And, yes, for reasons I have discussed more time than I care to repeat, Paul’s thorn in the flesh was an “infirmity”—he said so four times in 2 Cor. 11.30-12.10—and an infirmity for anyone who has a concordance, is NT language for an illness or physical disability. Through his encounter and God saying ‘no’ to his request for healing, Paul learned that God’s grace alone was sufficient for his need, not a physical healing. Even if it were a demonic opponent or suffering from persecution, as many allege, God still said ‘no’ to his prayer. IMO, God reserves that right.

Just sayin' (since you brought it up).

 

[Frogster]

Since I no longer believe that physical healing is in included in the atonement and, therefore, it is always God’s will to heal the sick (thought, certainly, sometimes it is), I now have no problem realizing that there are times when God’s will is accomplished through an illness. Physical healing is temporary at best and the atonement purchases our eternal redemption. and we will continue to ward off illness until we receive our redeemed bodies. And, yes, for reasons I have discussed more time than I care to repeat, Paul’s thorn in the flesh was an “infirmity”—he said so four times in 2 Cor. 11.30-12.10—and an infirmity for anyone who has a concordance, is NT language for an illness or physical disability. Through his encounter and God saying ‘no’ to his request for healing, Paul learned that God’s grace alone was sufficient for his need, not a physical healing. Even if it were a demonic opponent or suffering from persecution, as many allege, God still said ‘no’ to his prayer. IMO, God reserves that right.

Just sayin' (since you brought it up).

yes, i agree, it was also about illness as u point out.

 

[Strong in Him]

the problem is this. The ill person has faith, they have asked to be healed, for the most part they are charismatic, they beleive in healings, so no one can blame their faith. But when after years go by, and they are not healed, they are then condemend, because they "don't have faith"!

But in this abusive scenario the pastor or healer is never blamed for the unhealed, like somehow their faith is not part of the equation, all while peter said, we have been given the same kind of faith, in 2 peter 1:1, peter who healed an unbeliever looking for money at the temple in Acts 3, Peter just did it. he did not need the faith of the lame man.

So where is the faith of the "healer"? Why are the ill blamed?

Jesus healed people without asking how much faith they had, as well.

Sadly, people feel they have to blame someone if healing doesn't occur at the time and in the way they want it to. Obviously they are not going to blame God; obviously too, their preachers or healing doctrines are not going to be found wanting - so it has to be the sick person's "fault".
Way to go - heaping guilt, failure, inadequacy onto someone who may already be struggling with a serious illness.

Why is it so hard for people to acknowledge that God's timing is always perfect, and we can't always have what we ask for the minute we ask for it?

 

[Optimax]

Many use the example of the thorn in Paul's side as Scriptural proof that sometimes its God's will that Christians remain with chronic illnesses. My view is that the thorn in his side was a demonic being tormenting Paul because of the phrase "messenger (same Greek word meaning angel) of Satan" used in the text. People remain in illness because they do not ask in faith for healing. In the Bible, we don't see people remaining in illness, but rather healed!

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

Most of you guys need to read what the OP says again.

Read it very close before answering again please!

Some of ya will have to read it not only very close but also very slowly!

 

[Frogster]

Jesus healed people without asking how much faith they had, as well.

Sadly, people feel they have to blame someone if healing doesn't occur at the time and in the way they want it to. Obviously they are not going to blame God; obviously too, their preachers or healing doctrines are not going to be found wanting - so it has to be the sick person's "fault".
Way to go - heaping guilt, failure, inadequacy onto someone who may already be struggling with a serious illness.

Why is it so hard for people to acknowledge that God's timing is always perfect, and we can't always have what we ask for the minute we ask for it?

Thank you, well said, people need mercy.

 

[K2K]

Many use the example of the thorn in Paul's side as Scriptural proof that sometimes its God's will that Christians remain with chronic illnesses. My view is that the thorn in his side was a demonic being tormenting Paul because of the phrase "messenger (same Greek word meaning angel) of Satan" used in the text. People remain in illness because they do not ask in faith for healing. In the Bible, we don't see people remaining in illness, but rather healed!

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

I absolutely believe with the OP.

There are some other things that might also need to be consider though. What do we mean by "remain in illnesses"?

I do think it might be God's will that someone experience suffering for a period of time. Christ learned obedience at the cross, which certainly required suffering. Then there was the blind man the disciples asked about. He wasn't blind because of sin but because Jesus was to get the glory for him being healed. So clearly there was a predetermined period of illness prescribed by God.

So could there be those who come to know God and not be given healing here on earth until the next life? I would guess so. So does that mean "remain in illnesses"?

Still we also have the case where Jesus heal all that were brought to Him.

He seems to be a loving God when I talk to Him. He has healed me of things several times, and by miracles. Yet I also remember Him telling me to stop eating ice, because I loved to eat the ice when I got a soda. One day a tooth started hurting, and I asked Him about it, only to be told, "Stop eating ice". I didn't stop and the tooth continued to hurt.

I went to a conference with John Arnott, and he said that God was going to heal people's teeth, so raise your hand up to heaven and pull your healing down. I did that and when I pulled my hand down I clearly heard the Lord tell me, "Stop eating ice." So I laughed at myself, and did stop eating ice.

About a month later my tooth was still hurting, so turned to the Lord and pointed out that I had stopped eating ice for a month now, and instantly my tooth stopped hurting. And to this day (over a year later) it hasn't hurt me.

So I do believe that God wants us healed. We are healed by faith, and faith comes from hearing God. Jesus said that with their ears they barely hear and with their eyes they don't see, otherwise they would turn back to me and I would heal them. So if we listen to God with faith, He will heal us so that we don't remain in illness, but what does remain in illness mean. I do think He heals based upon His plan, and it might not mean instant healing in all cases.

 

[Giver]

Many use the example of the thorn in Paul's side as Scriptural proof that sometimes its God's will that Christians remain with chronic illnesses. My view is that the thorn in his side was a demonic being tormenting Paul because of the phrase "messenger (same Greek word meaning angel) of Satan" used in the text. People remain in illness because they do not ask in faith for healing. In the Bible, we don't see people remaining in illness, but rather healed!

What's your view? Is it Gods will that some remain in illnesses?

This will be a long post. I am going to share what I have experienced with healings the last forty years.

The first true healing I experienced was that my daughter who was born blind and was healed. My wife and I both prayed for my daughter, but my wife prayed face down on the floor, and there was no mistaking how heart felt her prayer was.

My ministry is not a healing ministry, but I have laid hands on people any prayed for them to be healed, and they would be healed.

I have a Downs Syndrome daughter that Jesus promised my wife that she would be healed. Well my wife died four years ago, and my thirty-six year old Downs Syndrome daughter is still not healed. Asking Jesus about why she was not healed, Jesus replied that it was up to my daughter if she wanted to be healed or not. Asking my daughter if she wanted to be healed, she let us know that she did not. She seemed to be afraid to be healed.

My personal experiences with being healed have been an eye opener.

About ten years ago I was experiencing all the symptoms of colon cancer. I filled the toilet with blood ever bowel movement, and the pain in my colon doubled me up it was so intense. I did not have insurance, and not wanting to place the family in any financial trouble, I put up with the pain, etc. for about five months. Finally the pain became too much, and I asked Jesus if I should go to the hospital. Jesus told me no that he would take care of my problem. So I did not go to the doctor, and expected that I would be healed right away. That did not happen; in fact I waited two weeks before I was healed.

A year or so later I started to lose my eyesight. Again I asked Jesus if I should go to the eye doctor. Jesus told me no that he would take care of my eyes. I had to get my drivers license renewed soon, and my eyes were not getting any better. When it was almost renewal time I again asked Jesus about going to a doctor, and he seem very disappointed but said yes. I thought about Jesus’ reaction, and decided that obeying him was more important then any thing, so decided to do what he first told me. The day came for my eye test for the license and I passed with ease. I learned that for me death was easier to face then losing my eyesight.

I should share that my oldest daughter was healed from breast cancer. She was going into surgery and before operating they did whatever test it is to see where the cancer is, and found there was no cancer. This was another time my wife had one of her heart-felt prayers.

In the last few months I have learned some thing about healing, which has shown me I know so little about the world we have been given to live in.

The first thing that happened is I experienced an inter ear infection, that made it so I could not walk without falling. I ask Jesus if I needed to see a doctor, and he told me no that he would take care of it. My oldest daughter was so frightened for me, and would not accept me not going to a doctor, so I asked Jesus again, and he said I could go to a doctor.

A few weeks later I started having bad pains in my legs, and again I asked Jesus if I should go to a doctor, and again he said he would take care of it. The pains got worse, and my legs started to swell up. My youngest daughter was concerned, but I told her the Jesus said he would take care of my legs. My youngest daughter believed me, and accepted that I would be OK. But when my leg did not get any better she started to be concerned.

I ask Jesus about why my leg was not being healed, and he told me that he could not heal my leg. Now I it was very hard for me to understand that Jesus was not able to do something.

Jesus let me know that Satan had been promised certain powers, and those promises would not be broken. I would have to hurt for a while, and only prayer would make the hurt go away. I never prayed so hard and so long in my life, and still it took weeks for my leg to be back to normal. Jesus let me know that Satan could not truly damage me. Satan could only make it seem that I was truly damaged.


Jesus also told me that if I go to the doctor with what ever seems to be wrong after he says he would take care of it, that whatever the doctor diagnosed the problem to be is what I would have, and I would have to let medicine/medical doctor heal me if they can.

Having that experience explained another healing that had happened many years before.

I had a man on a motorcycle drive into my car and fly twenty feet over my car. He landed on his head, breaking his helmet. The medics could not revive him, and I knelt down on the highway touched his toes, and prayed in tongues for him. When I finished he sat up looked around and asked where his bike was.

This accident had the potential to cause me a huge amount of problems. Asking Jesus what I was going to do, because I saw no way to solve the situation. Jesus told me that Satan had his way, but that he defeated Satan.

That accident ended up being a blessing for my wife and me.

Jesus uses all things for the good of those who love him.

 

[Faulty]

Hagin said in his book 'I believe in Visions' that Jesus appeared to him and refused to heal his arm completly as a punishment (page 93).

"The doctor had told my wife that I would never be able to touch my shoulder with that arm; however, I can. The Lord told me as He sat there by my hospital bed that He would restore 99 percent of the use of that arm. He said He was going to leave that 1 percent disability to remind me not to disobey Him again, but to use the ministry He had given me."
​

So if one were to believe Hagin told the truth, then one would be obliged to agree that Jesus will refuse to heal 100%.

 

[ByronArn]

Where people get the idea that my opening post was an attempt to blame the sick for being sick, I don't know. There are many reasons for healings not being successful, IMO. To name a few: lack of faith, impatience (healing doesn't happen right away, so the healing is declared a failure), disobedience, or lack of actual want (the ill is so used to his lifestyle that he don't really want anything changed). And it can be the fault of the sick, or the person doing the asking (a healer, or someone who is praying). Many times (perhaps most the time) its a combination of these and other factors.

The last one (lack of actual want) reminds me of a joke.

An Irishman in a wheelchair entered a restaurant one afternoon and asked the waitress for a cup of coffee. The Irishman looked across the restaurant and asked, "Is that Jesus sitting over there?" The waitress nodded "yes," so the Irishman told her to give Jesus a cup of coffee, on him.

The next patron to come in was an Englishman with a hunched back. He shuffled over to a booth, painfully sat down, and asked for a cup of hot tea. He also glanced across the restaurant and asked, "Is that Jesus over there?" The waitress nodded, so the Englishman said to give Jesus a cup of hot tea, "my treat."

The third patron to come into the restaurant was a Redneck on crutches. He hobbled over to a booth, sat down and hollered, "Hey there sweet thang. How's about gettin' me a cold glass of Coke!" He too looked across the restaurant and asked, "Is that God's boy over there?" The waitress once again nodded that it was, so the Redneck said to give Jesus a cold glass of Coke, "on my bill."

As Jesus got up to leave, he passed by the Irishman, touched him and said, "For your kindness, you are healed." The Irishman felt the strength come back to his legs, got up and danced a jig right out the door.

Jesus also passed by the Englishman, touched him and said, "For your kindness, you are healed." The Englishman felt his back straightening up, and he raised his hands, praised the Lord and did a series of back flips out the door.

Then Jesus walked up to the Redneck.

The Redneck jumped up and yelled, "Don't touch me... I'm drawin' disability!"

 

[DMW]

Hagin said in his book 'I believe in Visions' that Jesus appeared to him and refused to heal his arm completly as a punishment (page 93).

"The doctor had told my wife that I would never be able to touch my shoulder with that arm; however, I can. The Lord told me as He sat there by my hospital bed that He would restore 99 percent of the use of that arm. He said He was going to leave that 1 percent disability to remind me not to disobey Him again, but to use the ministry He had given me."
​

So if one were to believe Hagin told the truth, then one would be obliged to agree that Jesus will refuse to heal 100%.

No one would be obliged to believe anything here, since it was Brother Hagin's personal experience and not the Bible. But as someone who has studied under Brother Hagin's ministry for years, I do respect what he says.
Please note that the Lord told him that 1% would be left as a reminder, not a punishment. Nor did He tell him it wasn't His will to heal. In fact, he was healed.
When Jesus was resurrected from the dead, he still had nail scars. I guess this must mean it wasn't God's will to heal Him. Paul too, bore scars on his body from beatings, but was raised from a stoning to preach. God must have been punishing him too.