Is Real Presence Biblical?

[RND]

I guess God can't do these things. I did not know God had limitations.

No question that God can do anything, that's not the question. The question is does He do this?


Then how can His presence be in the wafer and the grape juice if He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary?

Thanks for opening up our eyes.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

 

[boswd]

REPEAT QUESTION>>>>

Then how can His presence be in the wafer and the grape juice if He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary? I mean, it seems like a reasonable question to ask.

HE'S GOD!!!!!!!!!!! THAT'S HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


you are implying God has limitations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[boswd]

No question that God can do anything, that's not the question. The question is does He do this?


Then how can His presence be in the wafer and the grape juice if He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary?



"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

Well you go from How to Why or if, well that is the whole original point of this thread basically. Do you believe in the Real Presense or don't you.

It's amazing to me that our Religion which based on Faith has soo many people and groups in it that have the same mindset as Atheists, the "Prove IT" mindset.

 

[RND]

HE'S GOD!!!!!!!!!!! THAT'S HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


you are implying God has limitations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope, just looking for more than a "simplistic" answer.

 

[RND]

Well you go from How to Why or if, well that is the whole original point of this thread basically.

To not provide answers? Just, "Because He's God!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Do you believe in the Real Presense or don't you.

Evidence usually helps in establishing one's belief.

 

[tadoflamb]

Sorry you missed this. One more time.
Then how can His presence be in the wafer and the grape juice if He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary?

I purposefully ignored that question because I don't like the way you're referring to the Blessed Sacrament.

Do not give what is holy to dogs or put pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot and turn and tear you to pieces. (Matthew 7:6)

Not that I really think you're a pig, but the Apostle warns us:

For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgement on himself. (1 Corinthians 10:29)

Discussions on the internet regarding the Holy Eucharist can quickly lead to serious irreverence, and disrespect. I care enough about you that I don't want to help you eat and drink to your own condemnation.


Please forgive me.

 

[cobweb]

REPEAT QUESTION>>>>

Then how can His presence be in the wafer and the grape juice if He is in the Heavenly Sanctuary? I mean, it seems like a reasonable question to ask.

First of all, traditionally it is bread and wine.

Do you agree that God is omnipresent and omnipotent? Do you believe that The Holy Spirit is everywhere present and fills all things? Do you believe God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit... one in essence and undivided? Do you believe in miracles?

 

[boswd]

Nope, just looking for more than a "simplistic" answer.

You can't accept it's a mystery but also at the same time you would slam the CC for Transustantiation?

Odd, and it's eerily along the same lines of why Transubstatiation came out in the first place. To combat heresy's of that time.

 

[tadoflamb]

HE'S GOD!!!!!!!!!!! THAT'S HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


you are implying God has limitations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you.

I'm surprised that good Christian people would find that so hard to accept.

 

[cobweb]

Nope.

The doctrine of transubstantiation, like many other doctrines of the papal church, was a controversial question for centuries before it received final adoption. It was Paschasius Radbertus, a Benedictine monk (786-860), who first advocated the doctrine of the "real presence" (transubstantiation) by the changing of the elements into the "body and blood of Christ." From the publishing of his treatise in A. D. 831 on the "real presence" until the fourth Lateran Council in A. D. 1215, at which time the doctrine was adopted as a dogma, many fierce verbal battles were fought by the bishops against the teaching of Paschasius. - The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. ii, p. 518, Art. "Paschasius Radbertus;" / 6. Samuel Edgar, The Variations of Popery. Tenth complete American edition, PP. 405-409.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Saint Paschasius Radbertus

Transubstantiation and Real Presence are not the same thing.

 

[boswd]

To not provide answers? Just, "Because He's God!!!!!!!!!!!!!"



Evidence usually helps in establishing one's belief.

So how do you argue with an Atheists, I mean is it just a "Prove it" Vs "Prove it" battle?

 

[visionary]

Real Presence... can manifest itself in a burning bush... but God is not so small that man can dictate that He come to the wafer. God is at no man's beck and call.

 

[AngelusSax]

Nope, just looking for more than a "simplistic" answer.

I think the answer may involve figuring out how Jesus can be fully man and fully God at the same time, even on the cross, suffering death and becoming sin to put to death sin...

Many take "This is my body" to mean "This represents my body", which is not unreasonable from a human point of view. However, if we stop trying to substitute our words, which we think are better, for the words of Christ, which truly are the best, then we will see that this IS his Body, this IS His Blood.

God is everywhere and He is also localized at the same time. As for figuring out how that is, I think if anyone ever truly understands it, their head will explode because it's not something that can be fully understood, only accepted on faith and beleived by God's Grace.

 

[Fixation On God]

Transubstantiation and Real Presence are not the same thing.

Exactly! So why does everyone keep insisting that they are!>?

So how do you argue with an Atheists, I mean is it just a "Prove it" Vs "Prove it" battle?

Can you ever give a straight answer?

 

[RND]

I purposefully ignored that question because I don't like the way you're referring to the Blessed Sacrament.

Then that's your excuse for not answering a direct question. So be it.

Not that I really think you're a pig, but the Apostle warns us:

Well, you're the one that doesn't want to offer your pearls based on how the wafer and grape juice was referred to.

Discussions on the internet regarding the Holy Eucharist can quickly lead to serious irreverence, and disrespect. I care enough about you that I don't want to help you eat and drink to your own condemnation.


Please forgive me.

Thanks for looking out for me but the Lord knows my heart and what condition it's been in every time I have taken communion.

All I see you doing is attempting to defer answering a direct question. Use scripture if you have to.

 

[simonthezealot]

HE'S GOD!!!!!!!!!!! THAT'S HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


you are implying God has limitations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're implying the incarnation isn't what scripture says it is "true flesh of flesh"

 

[RND]

So how do you argue with an Atheists, I mean is it just a "Prove it" Vs "Prove it" battle?

The Bible is full of facts based on spiritual revelations.

 

[RND]

Transubstantiation and Real Presence are not the same thing.

Yes they are.

 

[simonthezealot]

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[AngelusSax]

Real Presence... can manifest itself in a burning bush... but God is not so small that man can dictate that He come to the wafer. God is at no man's beck and call.

Of course He isn't. At the same time, Real Presence is still there in the wafer(bread) and wine(juice, whichever). It is not that man dictates God be there, but that God, by Hiw Promise, is there. It is a proclamation of God, not a sacrifice of man.