Is Real Presence Biblical?

[RND]

Transubstantiationism is a Real Presence theology but it isn't the only one.

And? That doesn't say they aren't the same thing.

If you honestly think that, then all you've done is create a Straw Man.

That's your favorite term.

The following are all Eucharistic theologies that are under the umbrella of Real Presence doctrine:

Transubstantiationism
Consubstantiationism
Sacramental Unionism
Objective Reality

Each teaches that, upon the completion of the Eucharistic liturgy, Christ is physically and spiritually present there in the bread and wine with water. In other words, His Presence is really there: Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. When you receive the species, you literally receive Him into you.

So it's the same thing. Thanks.

 

[2 King]

which teaches that it's just a metaphor and it's not literal?

 

[RND]

....you push me further into the Word and as a result I have a new appreciation for my Catholic faith.

I think that's called "digging in your heels."

 

[PaladinValer]

And? That doesn't say they aren't the same thing.

Ge, the Vatican Catholics even agree that, while the EOs, Anglicans, and Lutherans don't agree with transubstantiationism, they do agree that Jesus is physically present. In fact, it is considered only a venal sin to receive Communion in those churches due to the fact that we do agree that Jesus is physically present in our Eucharistic theologies. If a VC were to receive in, say, a Baptist congregation, it would be considered a mortal sin, since they don't even agree on the Real Presence.

So yes, I'm right.

That's your favorite term.

And I used it appropriately, since you've created your own personal definition outside that which is universally accepted and attacked it. That is exactly what a Straw Man is.

Attack away as you'd like, although I'd like it if you'd actually debate what I'm actually arguing.

 

[simonthezealot]

Find ~altar~ ~sacrifice~ OR ~priest~ as well as ~real presence~ in the scriptural account of the Lord's Supper...
YOU can't!!!
And any denomination promoting such language are being entirely non-Biblical.

Can't seem to find Trinity either anywhere...

See your quote above you took my comment about contextual language and tried to attach the "trinity word isn't in scripture" tired old argument to it...

I think you and others are missing the point, and correct me if I'm wrong Paladinvalar, he's not denying Godhead and it's use in the Trinity nor does he disagree with it.
The point being made is the clear and undisputed definition of The Trinity cannot be found in scripture but when scripture is read in the correct context it is clear as day.

The same is held with the Real Presence, the clear cut Merriam Webster definition of the Real Presence cannot be found in scripture but when scripture is read in it's proper context it is clear as day.

The triunity of the Godhead is throughout the revealed new testament as well the multiplicity of personhood is disclosed through out the OT.
You can not make that same argument for "real presence" in the bread and wine

Like what they did to me: they attacked what I said about how the Trinity, like the Real Presence; the terms aren't specifically in Scripture, instead of debating the issue of the thread.

You are the one who avoided the point, which was when i stated this...
Find ~altar~ ~sacrifice~ OR ~priest~ as well as ~real presence~ in the scriptural account of the Lord's Supper...
YOU can't!!!
And any denomination promoting such language are being entirely non-Biblical...

You had no rational response or answer.

 

[simonthezealot]

In fact, it is considered only a venal sin to receive Communion in those churches due to the fact that we do agree that Jesus is physically present in our Eucharistic theologies.

Get this...It's a sin to share in the Lord's supper with other believers...WOW. Sounds like adversary work if i've ever heard it...

 

[RND]

Ge, the Vatican Catholics even agree that, while the EOs, Anglicans, and Lutherans don't agree with transubstantiationism, they do agree that Jesus is physically present. In fact, it is considered only a venal sin to receive Communion in those churches due to the fact that we do agree that Jesus is physically present in our Eucharistic theologies. If a VC were to receive in, say, a Baptist congregation, it would be considered a mortal sin, since they don't even agree on the Real Presence.

So yes, I'm right.

In your own mind.

And I used it appropriately, since you've created your own personal definition outside that which is universally accepted and attacked it. That is exactly what a Straw Man is.

Personally, I don't think you know what the term means.

Attack away as you'd like, although I'd like it if you'd actually debate what I'm actually arguing.

Why? So you can call out "strawman" again? No thanks.

St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one change we encounter that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence of these realities, which can’t be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What starts as bread and wine becomes Christ’s body and blood. A handy word was coined to describe this unique change. Transformation of the “sub-stance”, what “stands-under” the surface, came to be called “transubstantiation.”

What makes this happen? The Spirit and the Word. After praying for the Holy Spirit to come (epiklesis), the priest, who stands in the place of Christ, repeats the words of the God-man: “This is my Body, This is my Blood.” Sounds like Genesis 1 to me: the mighty wind (read “Spirit”) whips over the surface of the water and God’s Word resounds. “Let there be light” and there was light. It is no harder to believe in the Eucharist than to believe in Creation. - The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist | Transubstantiation | Body and Blood of Christ really present in the Blessed Sacrament -Welcome to The Crossroads Initiative

 

[simonthezealot]

REPEAT QUESTION>>>>>
Find ~altar~ ~sacrifice~ OR ~priest~ as well as ~real presence~ in the scriptural account of the Lord's Supper...

 

[simonthezealot]

REPEAT QUESTION>>>>>
Find ~altar~ ~sacrifice~ OR ~priest~ as well as ~real presence~ in the scriptural account of the Lord's Supper...

Not the words even, how about just a contextual understanding???

 

[tadoflamb]

How is it that they define the term eucharist?

Sacrament of the Eucharist

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I still would like to know why this thread is not moved to the Sacramental sub-board.....

LLOJ now unsubsribes from thread

http://www.christianforums.com/f718/

 

[simonthezealot]

Sacrament of the Eucharist

So not at all like its greek root word then, of giving thanks...

 

[tadoflamb]

So not at all like its greek root word then, of giving thanks...

It's in there too.

 

[tadoflamb]

Thanksgiving and praise to the Father

1359 The Eucharist, the sacrament of our salvation accomplished by Christ on the cross, is also a sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for the work of creation. In the Eucharistic sacrifice the whole of creation loved by God is presented to the Father through the death and the Resurrection of Christ. Through Christ the Church can offer the sacrifice of praise in thanksgiving for all that God has made good, beautiful, and just in creation and in humanity.


1360 The Eucharist is a sacrifice of thanksgiving to the Father, a blessing by which the Church expresses her gratitude to God for all his benefits, for all that he has accomplished through creation, redemption, and sanctification. Eucharist means first of all "thanksgiving."

 

[RND]

The Eucharist is a sacrifice of thanksgiving to the Father,

I thought Jesus was the passover sacrificial lamb of God?

Exd 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; [with] your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it [is] the LORD'S passover.

How can man sacrifice what God has already given?

 

[tadoflamb]

I thought Jesus was the passover sacrificial lamb of God?

Exd 12:11 And thus shall ye eat it; [with] your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it [is] the LORD'S passover.

How can man sacrifice what God has already given?

1365 Because it is the memorial of Christ's Passover, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice. The sacrificial character of the Eucharist is manifested in the very words of institution: "This is my body which is given for you" and "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood."187 In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."188

(emphasis mine)

 

[RND]

In the Eucharist Christ gives us the very body which he gave up for us on the cross,

He did that once and for all. The grape juice is just that, grape juice, not blood.

BTW, the RCC uses fermented wine in this ritual. Fermentation (leaven) is always seen as a type or sign of sin. Are we to assume then that the RCC thinks Jesus' "blood" is tainted with sin?

 

[boswd]

He did that once and for all. The grape juice is just that, grape juice, not blood.

BTW, the RCC uses fermented wine in this ritual. Fermentation (leaven) is always seen as a type or sign of sin. Are we to assume then that the RCC thinks Jesus' "blood" is tainted with sin?

actually wine is what is used by most Christian Faiths, the only reason grape juice is used by some is because it's a byproduct from the days of Abolishionist.

Ocean Spray I don't think existed during Christ's time, but I could be wrong.

 

[tadoflamb]

Ocean Spray I don't think existed during Christ's time, but I could be wrong.

or Wonder Bread.

 

[boswd]

Get this...It's a sin to share in the Lord's supper with other believers...WOW. Sounds like adversary work if i've ever heard it...

You do realize this is very common practice even in some very Fundy Church's