Is purpose/meaning in your life necessary?

[Bob Crowley]

Consider the life of Joe. A typical day is getting up in the morning, taking a shower, going to work at a job he really doesn’t care about; but does it because he likes the pay. After 8 hours, he leaves work, goes to the gym, for an hour then goes home; sits in front of the TV, eat dinner and watch his favorite TV programs till its time to go to bed then everything starts all over again.

On weekends he may have dinner with his girl friend, perhaps see a movie, play darts or pool at the local bar with friends, instead of going to work, but everything else is pretty much the same; and Joe is perfectly happy doing this. Is there really meaning or a sense of purpose to Joe’s life? Does it really matter if he is happy following this routine? Is purpose/meaning in your life really necessary? Your thoughts?

Since you're an atheist, you're not going to accept this, but just over 40 years ago, my father died. On the night he died, he materialised in my room, near the door to begin with. I blurted out, "How the hell did you get in here?" (since the place was all locked up, and he didn't know where I lived). He didn't answer that, but started by apologising for the way he'd treated me (which had been cruel).

It went on, and at the end he gave this absolutely terrifying scream, and then just disappeared. It was also obvious something was coming for him.

Now that was 40 years ago on the 11th January 1979, and I still remember most of what we said.

To cut to the point, at one stage in the conversation, I accused him of wrecking my career chances, since he'd completely destroyed my confidence. In fact that was the second thing he said viz. "I've wrecked your life ... I've completely destroyed your confidence..."

His reply though to the accusation about destroying my career chances was "It's not even important!"

I snarled back, "Then what is!!" He replied "How you treat other people!" Bit late for him, having spent his whole married life treating his own family like mud, but from his short lived vantage point before what I presume was the Judgement Seat, he could see what really was important.

The problem with Joe's life, which like that of most people, is quite ordinary, is that it's all about Joe. True, he may not be hurting other people, but he's doing precious little to help others. In a world where there is poverty, starvation, injustice, cruelty, sex slavery, abortion on demand, drugs, terrorism, environmental problems, cruelty to animals etc. etc., what is Joe doing to help other people?

On the other hand, I was once talking to my old Protestant pastor (I'm Catholic now), about philosophy. In his opinion, the closest philosophical stream to Christianity is Existentialism, remarking "That's about all most people do - Exist," and your analogy of the Life of Joe pretty well sums that up. So for Christians that would be Soren Kierkegaard, and for Atheists that would be Jean Paul Sartre, the difference being that Kierkegaard wrote in a verbose analytical style, while Sartre wrote novels containing often rather unpleasant characters, but who made existential choices in light of the situation they were in at the time.

Therefore the reality is that most of us "exist" - we eat, drink, go to work, play a bit of sport, socialise, raise families, and all the other ordinary things that make up ordinary life. I'm no different - my life is quite ordinary, what you might call unremarkably Australian.

But I believe (I KNOW due to the episode with my father), that there's a Judge, and one of the most important criteria will be "how we treated other people" to quote my father's spirit.

So ... how do you treat other people?

 

[Ken-1122]

Since you're an atheist, you're not going to accept this, but just over 40 years ago, my father died. On the night he died, he materialised in my room, near the door to begin with. I blurted out, "How the hell did you get in here?" (since the place was all locked up, and he didn't know where I lived). He didn't answer that, but started by apologising for the way he'd treated me (which had been cruel).

It went on, and at the end he gave this absolutely terrifying scream, and then just disappeared. It was also obvious something was coming for him.

Now that was 40 years ago on the 11th January 1979, and I still remember most of what we said.

To cut to the point, at one stage in the conversation, I accused him of wrecking my career chances, since he'd completely destroyed my confidence. In fact that was the second thing he said viz. "I've wrecked your life ... I've completely destroyed your confidence..."

His reply though to the accusation about destroying my career chances was "It's not even important!"

I snarled back, "Then what is!!" He replied "How you treat other people!" Bit late for him, having spent his whole married life treating his own family like mud, but from his short lived vantage point before what I presume was the Judgement Seat, he could see what really was important.

The problem with Joe's life, which like that of most people, is quite ordinary, is that it's all about Joe. True, he may not be hurting other people, but he's doing precious little to help others. In a world where there is poverty, starvation, injustice, cruelty, sex slavery, abortion on demand, drugs, terrorism, environmental problems, cruelty to animals etc. etc., what is Joe doing to help other people?

On the other hand, I was once talking to my old Protestant pastor (I'm Catholic now), about philosophy. In his opinion, the closest philosophical stream to Christianity is Existentialism, remarking "That's about all most people do - Exist," and your analogy of the Life of Joe pretty well sums that up. So for Christians that would be Soren Kierkegaard, and for Atheists that would be Jean Paul Sartre, the difference being that Kierkegaard wrote in a verbose analytical style, while Sartre wrote novels containing often rather unpleasant characters, but who made existential choices in light of the situation they were in at the time.

Therefore the reality is that most of us "exist" - we eat, drink, go to work, play a bit of sport, socialise, raise families, and all the other ordinary things that make up ordinary life. I'm no different - my life is quite ordinary, what you might call unremarkably Australian.

But I believe (I KNOW due to the episode with my father), that there's a Judge, and one of the most important criteria will be "how we treated other people" to quote my father's spirit.

So ... how do you treat other people?

You made some interesting points; thanks for sharing.

 

[quatona]

Considering the scenarios presented, what are some of the possible purposes in his life?

This is not really for me to tell, but in my observation and by their own statements people pursue purposes with every action they do. I am assuming that Joe goes to work in order to earn money eats dinner in order to feed himself, that he goes to sleep in order to recover, watches TV in order to educate or entertain himself etc. etc. These would be purposes in his life.

 

[Ken-1122]

This is not really for me to tell, but in my observation and by their own statements people pursue purposes with every action they do. I am assuming that Joe goes to work in order to earn money eats dinner in order to feed himself, that he goes to sleep in order to recover, watches TV in order to educate or entertain himself etc. etc. These would be purposes in his life.

Those sound like typical life functions to me; how are you defining purpose?

 

[Ken-1122]

The problem with Joe's life, which like that of most people, is quite ordinary, is that it's all about Joe. True, he may not be hurting other people, but he's doing precious little to help others. In a world where there is poverty, starvation, injustice, cruelty, sex slavery, abortion on demand, drugs, terrorism, environmental problems, cruelty to animals etc. etc., what is Joe doing to help other people?

Not everybody is in a position to help others, many people are just fighting to keep their own heads above water in order to not be a burden to others.

On the other hand, I was once talking to my old Protestant pastor (I'm Catholic now), about philosophy. In his opinion, the closest philosophical stream to Christianity is Existentialism, remarking "That's about all most people do - Exist," and your analogy of the Life of Joe pretty well sums that up.

To exist is the default position; not all are able to go beyond that. I wouldn't judge harshly because of that.

So for Christians that would be Soren Kierkegaard, and for Atheists that would be Jean Paul Sartre, the difference being that Kierkegaard wrote in a verbose analytical style, while Sartre wrote novels containing often rather unpleasant characters, but who made existential choices in light of the situation they were in at the time.

Never heard of those people; so I cannot comment.

Therefore the reality is that most of us "exist" - we eat, drink, go to work, play a bit of sport, socialise, raise families, and all the other ordinary things that make up ordinary life. I'm no different - my life is quite ordinary, what you might call unremarkably Australian.

I see nothing wrong with that; do you?

But I believe (I KNOW due to the episode with my father), that there's a Judge, and one of the most important criteria will be "how we treated other people" to quote my father's spirit.

So ... how do you treat other people?

I treat others to the best of my ability. How about you?

 

[RDKirk]

Consider the life of Joe. A typical day is getting up in the morning, taking a shower, going to work at a job he really doesn’t care about; but does it because he likes the pay. After 8 hours, he leaves work, goes to the gym, for an hour then goes home; sits in front of the TV, eat dinner and watch his favorite TV programs till its time to go to bed then everything starts all over again.

On weekends he may have dinner with his girl friend, perhaps see a movie, play darts or pool at the local bar with friends, instead of going to work, but everything else is pretty much the same; and Joe is perfectly happy doing this. Is there really meaning or a sense of purpose to Joe’s life? Does it really matter if he is happy following this routine? Is purpose/meaning in your life really necessary? Your thoughts?

Ask Joe about that when he's an old man.

 

[Ken-1122]

Ask Joe about that when he's an old man.

Why do you suppose Joe would have a different perspective when he is old?

 

[RDKirk]

Why do you suppose Joe would have a different perspective when he is old?

Because at some point most people do actually begin to reflect whether they have done anything significant with their lives. It usually comes when they get a visceral grasp of their mortality (as opposed to an intellectual acknowledgement of it) and begin to wonder if they have created any kind of legacy that will continue beyond them.

 

[Ken-1122]

Because at some point most people do actually begin to reflect whether they have done anything significant with their lives. It usually comes when they get a visceral grasp of their mortality (as opposed to an intellectual acknowledgement of it) and begin to wonder if they have created any kind of legacy that will continue beyond them.

Isn't it possible to accomplish something one considers significant; whether that be raising good children, starting a small business, or even have a hobby; without it being your purpose in life?

 

[RDKirk]

Isn't it possible to accomplish something one considers significant; whether that be raising good children, starting a small business, or even have a hobby; without it being your purpose in life?

Ask Joe about that when he's an old man.

 

[Ken-1122]

Ask Joe about that when he's an old man.

Joe doesn't exist; he was just a fictional character i created to make a point. What's your opinion?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

But most likely giving birth to the next Billy Graham is not going to happen. So how does Joe figure out what his purpose is, and since Joe is not a slave, who decides what his purpose is?

Of course we are talking about God's purpose for us. If indeed God has a special purpose for someone I suspect He will reveal it to them in due time. Joe might be in a 'holding pattern' until the time is right for his purpose to be revealed. Absent that survival is a pretty good purpose in today's world.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Poor Joe. What did he do to generate such scrutiny???

Seriously, you say Joe is perfectly happy doing this. Where is it written that being happy is wrong? Why isn't the pursuit of happiness not considered a purpose/meaning in one's life?

I think that people become too concerned that they don't have lofty goals and ambitions that somehow 'justify' their lives.

I like the idea that Joe is happy.

God help me, I agree with you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Considering the scenarios presented, what are some of the possible purposes in his life?

God's purpose (the most important one) is for us to develop Godly character. If Joe remains with his girlfriend his character will likely be tested, and possibly improve.

 

[Ken-1122]

Of course we are talking about God's purpose for us. If indeed God has a special purpose for someone I suspect He will reveal it to them in due time. Joe might be in a 'holding pattern' until the time is right for his purpose to be revealed. Absent that survival is a pretty good purpose in today's world.

What about people who are not Christian?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What about people who are not Christian?

I don't know about them.

 

[Ken-1122]

I don't know about them.

Yeah I think this goes back to a point I made earlier about the only ones who has purpose assigned to their lives are slaves by their masters. I guess it would also apply to religious people who has their God as their master. Free men bring purpose to their own lives only if they choose to

 

[quatona]

Those sound like typical life functions to me; how are you defining purpose?

How do you manage to clearly differenciate between purpose and function, in this context? Personally, I think I can´t.

 

[Ken-1122]

How do you manage to clearly differenciate between purpose and function, in this context? Personally, I think I can´t.

Function is going through life. Purpose is the most important thing in your life; that which you live for.

 

[quatona]

Function is going through life. Purpose is the most important thing in your life; that which you live for.

Thanks!
I´m not sure, though, that your and my examples can be tracked down as pure functions (as opposed to purposes, in your definition). E.g. I have a hard time seeing "watching TV" as a function of life.
Also, I don´t think that purposes need to be the most important thing in your life (i.e. that there can only be one purpose). Personally, I have a handful of purposes in my life.