Is Purgatory real?

Lybrah said:

I was just wondering because if it is real, I need to start praying for my grandparents.

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Pray until God answers, trusting in Jesus.
Pergatery is not at all real - it is complete deception,
and there is a lot more deception as well -- remember Jesus says there are many false teachers, and false prophets, and false gospels,
not many true.
Read His Word - that is the only standard we can be sure of.
Man's traditions have sent billions of souls to judgment,
and ruined many multitudes of souls.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Purgatory is as real as zeus, apollyon, and unicorns ,
and
comes from the same source - the devil./mankind/ pagan worship.

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Numbers 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Numbers 24:8
God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Deuteronomy 33:17
His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Job 39:9
Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Job 39:10
Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 22:21
Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 29:6
He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Psalm 92:10
But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Isaiah 34:7
And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

5thKingdom said:

However, if I am wrong, I am open to correction (from Scripture).
Do you have any SCRIPTURE that supports the doctrine of purgatory?
That was the TOPIC of the thread... is purgatory BIBLICAL?

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Sorry but this is very rapidly becoming more and more like the xkcd comic I linked to. xkcd: Argument This argument might end up having 547 pages of inane comments before it's done. Silliness. Abject silliness. Not the kind of things Christians should be wasting time with. If you know your Bible, you know what I'm referring to.

If YOU want to learn about the Biblical basis for Purgatory AND if the original poster wants to post again in One Bread One Body, then you can read about it there. If you want a safe place to shoot down Catholic teaching, you have that right here. There is no need for me to post here when there is an existing place where the discussion could be done respectfully. I don't have that much of a martyr complex.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

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I believe those who place their faith in Jesus Christ are made clean and His death on the cross is completely sufficient...
"Peter declared, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, [He] the just for [us] the unjust, that he might bring us to God [not to purgatory]” (1 Pt 3:18). In contrast, Catholicism says that though Christ endured the eternal punishment for sin, we must personally suffer the temporal punishment to become pure enough to enter heaven. Not only does the dogma of purgatory contradict the Bible, but there is an obvious contradiction within the dogma itself. Christ’s death, it is said, couldn’t purify us because that requires personally suffering for our sins. Yet it is also taught that after our death Masses said for us, the good deeds and suffering of the living on our behalf (such as the stigmata of a Padre Pio), rosaries being said for us, etc., can reduce or even eliminate purgatorial suffering entirely—so we don’ t have to personally suffer after all!"

excerpt from:Question: I’ve recently heard some rather persuasive arguments by Catholics for purgatory [such as] 1 Corinthians 3:10-12 [and] Hebrews 12:14....What about such scripture?

Lybrah said:

I'm not bashing anybody. My family is Catholic. I was just wondering because if it is real, I need to start praying for my grandparents.

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You should pray for your Catholic relatives who are still living. Their souls are in jeopardy as they are trusting in their works for salvation.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

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I've studied the bible 35 years I've never seen it in the bible, I read the NIV
I would say read 1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.
Or Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real?

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In the Roman Catholic sense I would say no. What awaits us all after death is Hades where we await the resurrection. Will this be purgatorial in nature? It's possible.

Lybrah said:

Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross?

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Christ died on the cross as an act of supreme sacrificial love to destroy death and redeem the human race.

Lybrah said:

Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

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We are made clean through prayer, fasting, and living a life of service to our neighbor.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real?

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Purgatory is part of every Christian groups faith as far as I know. We all expect to be perfectly godly and good in heaven and we all know that on Earth we are not. Some sort of purging of our inclination to wickedness has to happen for us to be good in heaven when we're not here.

Lybrah said:

I was just wondering because if it is real, I need to start praying for my grandparents.

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You do not pray for them now?

Lybrah said:

I'm not bashing anybody. My family is Catholic. I was just wondering because if it is real, I need to start praying for my grandparents.

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By all means pray for your grandparents. Christians have been praying for the dead since the beginning of Christianity.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

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Purgatory, as far as I can see, has been concocted by the catholic church in order to raise more $$ for their coffers from the parishioners.
When Christ died and rose again, HE and HE only, paid the price of our salvation. All we have to do is believe and receive His free gift.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

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I believe Purgatory is real. Doesn't mean it's a horrible place, but it's not heaven, and it's not with God. When Jesus was dying on the cross he was asked by another man who was also crucified if he would remember him, and as we know Jesus told the man he would be with him on that day in Paradise. Jesus didn't ascend to heaven yet, not for 40 more days, he wouldn't refer to hell as paradise, so he didn't go there, no he went to Purgatory, a place of cleansing. That's my belief.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

Click to expand...

I believe Purgatory is real. Doesn't mean it's a horrible place, but it's not heaven, and it's not with God. When Jesus was dying on the cross he was asked by another man who was also crucified if he would remember him, and as we know Jesus told the man he would be with him on that day in Paradise. Jesus didn't ascend to heaven yet, not for 40 more days, he wouldn't refer to hell as paradise, so he didn't go there, no he went to Purgatory, a place of cleansing. That's my belief.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

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Notice that the answers here all come from people who believe in the idea that when you "accept Jesus," you are declared legally forgiven and therefore all your sins are taken care of.

That is not the salvation story of the Bible. And the idea of "accepting Jesus" is a fairly recent invention which does not go back to the beginning of the Christian faith.

So what is salvation really all about? The teaching of the Early Church (which continues today in Holy Orthodoxy) is that our nature was corrupted, making us easily turn to sin and away from God. This is why God banished Adam and Eve from the Garden, lest they eat of the Tree of Life and live forever in a state of corruption. Salvation is the changing of our nature, the "old man" of sin, which St. Paul speaks of, and the putting on of the "new man created in holiness." It is a change in our very natures, not a legal declaration that we are holy when we are still practicing sin. (Luther's idea).

In Orthodox soteriology, upon death we go into the presence of Christ our God. He is a burning, passionate fire of love, the same love that drove Him to the Cross. He deals with us as we are, not according to some false idea of "imputed righteousness" which was invented by Mssrs. Luther and Calvin. Standing in the presence of Christ, He who is Truth - His very presence - will reveal exactly who we are, and all that is not like Him will be burned away in the fires of His love. Think of gold. Think of how when the gold is submitted to the fire, the dross arises to the surface so the refiner can remove it. That is a picture of how our Lord's love will cleanse away all that is not like Him.

The Roman church calls this "Purgatory," but in Orthodoxy we do not believe in it as a place, but rather as a state of being. Your grandparents may or may not be experiencing cleansing from their sins. I say may or may not because maybe they are done being cleansed. Because of the effect of sin upon us all, just about everyone who ever lived or shall live will need some cleansing in the next life. We must be changed into His likeness, and that is purgation after death.

I would challenge any one of the people here who has made fun of this or call it "pagan teaching" to prove to me that your nature - what you are ontologically - is in perfect similarity to Christ with no sinful deeds, no sinful desires, and a nature that is 100% like His. If you are not that - then you are going to be purged.

Darlene C said:

I believe Purgatory is real. Doesn't mean it's a horrible place, but it's not heaven, and it's not with God. When Jesus was dying on the cross he was asked by another man who was also crucified if he would remember him, and as we know Jesus told the man he would be with him on that day in Paradise. Jesus didn't ascend to heaven yet, not for 40 more days, he wouldn't refer to hell as paradise, so he didn't go there, no he went to Purgatory, a place of cleansing. That's my belief.

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However, While Christ Himself didn't go directly to Heaven, since He is God the Son and He, the Father and the Spirit are all ONE, then for Christ to say to the dying thief, "Today, you will be with me in Paradise" being with God the Father and God the Spirit is also being with God the son. God is not confined or bound by space as we know it.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real?

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No, it's not. However, this question has been asked and debated ad nauseum lately, so I expect this thread to run to more than 500 posts with neither side yielding an inch.

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real?

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No.
"Purgatory" is never found in Scriptures, and the notion the word defines isn't either. The definition is;
"a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven."
1) No human, except Jesus, has ever, or will ever, go to God's presence in heaven (John 3:13). The hope of the righteous is to be resurrected at Christ's coming (1 Cor 15:20-22), and to reign with him on the earth (Rev 5:9,10 and Rev 20). THEN, to inherit the entire earth, with Jesus and with Jesus' God, and live here forever (Rev 21 & 22).
2) There is only one text in Scripture that sort of sounds like "purgatory" ... and that is the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus ... which is teaching an entirely different point.
3) There are MANY texts in Scripture that clearly, and in detail, state that ALL those that have died, both righteous and wicked, are sleeping/waiting in the graves/dust/hell for resurrection (Dan 12:2;John 5:28-30).

Lybrah said:

Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb?

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Yes he did, and that sacrifice is available for the entire world, but only applies to those that believe and obey. (John 3:16-19, Rom 6:3-6)

Lybrah said:

I will just get to the point: Is Purgatory real? Didn't Christ already pay for our sins (taking the punishment for us) when He died in the Cross? Aren't we covered in the blood of the lamb? This life on Earth is a waiting place for us; why go to another waiting place? Aren't we made clean by accepting His death?

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Peace be with you.

Yes, Purgatory is Real.

Jesus Christ paid the Price for your Salvation.

Whether you get saved or not is in your own hands.

The best way to demonstrate what I am saying is like this:

You want to go to University but it's too expensive. So some charitable person comes and pays the price of the whole course you want to study.

You, yourself still have to pass all the tests in your course to get the degree.

Purgatory is like prison. You have hope.

Hell is like the death penalty. You're screwed.

People that go to Purgatory did not meet the legal requirements under the Word of God interpreted by God Himself to enter Heaven. You're not wicked enough to go to Hell but you're not good enough to enter Heaven.

So you have to spend some time in Purgatory prison pondering and suffering for your sins of wilfulness, and neglect.

People that go to Hell are condemned. God has divorced you because you're wicked and depraved and can't stand the sight of you. You're an embarrassment to life itself. You make God look bad for creating you, trying to redeem you and trying to enlighten you.

God is very Creative, you know. He has created all kinds of things for all kinds of situations and for all kinds of purposes. Also His Dominion and Creation is Gigantic and Vast and Humongous.

Just look at this Earth for instance. So much varieties in the natural landscape and life.

God bless you.

5thKingdom said:

Purgatory does not provide purification... the Atonement of Christ does that
for the SOUL of all His "sheep"... and the resurrection of an "incorruptible" body
does that for the BODY of the saved, at the resurrection of the Seventh Trumpet [1Co 15]

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If your soul is pure, why do you keep on sinning? Or may we assume that you are not one of His sheep?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Pray until God answers, trusting in Jesus.
Pergatery is not at all real - it is complete deception,
and there is a lot more deception as well -- remember Jesus says there are many false teachers, and false prophets, and false gospels,
not many true.
Read His Word - that is the only standard we can be sure of.

Click to expand...

You have a translation of a copy, of a copy, of a copy, of a portion of the original inspired writings. This is your standard, to be precise.

Man's traditions have sent billions of souls to judgment,
and ruined many multitudes of souls.

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I see. So you have some special gift that enables you to peer into the afterlife and determine the number of people who are in Hell or destined for Hell? That must come in pretty handy. Could you kindly tell me the status of my father?