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is pride a fault or a virtue? struggles and stories.

ampbelle3130

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Okay. So I'm posting this for a discussion about pride.
Anything and everything related to it.
I am extremely interested in hearing your stories about
overcoming your pride when necessary...its something
I struggle with.

So...quotes, verses, stories, discussion, debate (respectfully of course), questions...anything.

: )
Looking forward to reading & learning!
 
R

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Elizabeth Bennet: Are you too proud, Mr. Darcy? And would you consider pride a fault or a virtue?
Mr. Darcy: That I couldn't say.
Elizabeth Bennet: Because we're doing our best to find a fault in you.
Mr. Darcy: Maybe it's that I find it hard to forgive the follies and vices of others, or their offenses against me. My good opinion, once lost, is lost forever.
Elizabeth Bennet: Oh, dear, I cannot tease you about that. What a shame, for I dearly love to laugh.
Caroline Bingley: A family trait, I think.


I have no other thoughts on this subject at this time. ^_^^_^^_^
 
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Nom De Guerre

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Ahh yes, the great defender of thyself: vanity.

All is vain, is it not? It's how we choose to quantify our experience with our illusions which grant us proper growth or not.

Pride, oh sweet pride, how abased you've become now that we all know your comeliness.

Anyway, stories and how to deal with pride yes? Yes.

Tears, true tears of the heart, have been my cure; understanding and revelation, after that, were fundamental in prevention as well. Dealing with whatever it is that sucks you into feeling too prideful can be undone with humbling yourself before God. Ridding yourself of the tools which 'cause you to feel as though you're going to fall to its temptation next. Prayer, and moving-on with God's love and compassion.

Grace and peace be upon you.
 
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ampbelle3130

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Oh lilacs! You never let me down! I knew youd catch on to that!
: ) my cfbff rocks. Haha.

Thank you guys for your input.

What about pride when you need help?
Or when not letting someone see you're hurting.
My best guy friend told me a while ago that
I am like a super hero in that I don't want anyone to know
I'm not invincible...immediately, the line:
"Everyone needs help sometimes Peter...even Spiderman."
popped into my head
 
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Kirisutokyoo-shinja

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A quote -

"Pride is the maddest thing that can exist. It feeds upon its own vitals. It will take away its own life, that with its blood it may make a purple robe for its shoulders. It saps and undermines its own house, that it may build its pinnacles a little higher, and then the whole structure tumbles down. Nothing proves men so mad as pride. For this they have given up rest, and ease, and repose to find rank and power among men. For this they have dared to risk their hope of salvation, to leave the gentle yoke of Jesus, and go toiling wearily along the way of life, seeking to save themselves by their own works, and at last to stagger in the mire of despair.

O man, hate pride! Flee from it; abhor it. Let it not dwell with thee. If thou wantest to have a madman in your heart, embrace pride, for you shall never find one more mad than he. You may find it in any fashion you may choose: you may see it in the beggar's rags as well as in the rich man's garment. It dwells with the rich and with the poor. A man without a shoe to his foot may be as proud as if he were riding in a chariot.

Pride can be found in every rank of society, among all classes of men. Sometimes it is an Arminian, and talks about the power of the creature. Then it turns Calvinistic, and boasts of its fancied security, forgetful of the Maker who alone can keep faith alive. It may be a Church man [Roman Catholic] and worship God in splendid cathedrals, and go to the common meeting house. It is one of the most universal things in the world. It attends all kinds of chapels and churches. Look where you will, you will see pride. It comes up with us to the house of God. It goes with us to our houses. It is found int he marketplace, and in the business place, in the streets, and everywhere...

Pride will get into the Christian's heart as well as the sinners'. It will flourish under the name of self-sufficiency, teaching the Christian that he is rich and increased in goods, having need of nothing. It will tell him that he doesn't need daily grace, that past experience will do for tomorrow, that he knows enough, toils enough, prays enough. It will make him forget that he has not yet attained. It will not allow him to press forward to the things that are before, forgetting the things that are behind, but enters into his heart, and tempts the believer to set up an independent business for himself. And until the Lord brings about a spiritual bankruptcy, pride will keep him from going to God.

Pride has ten thousand shapes. It is not always that stiff and starched gentleman that you picture it. It is a vile, creepy, insinuating thing that will twist itself like a serpent into our hearts. It will talk about humility and prate about being dust and ashes. I've known men talk about their corruption most marvelously, pretending to be all humility, while at the same time they were the proudest wretches that could be found this side of the gulf of separation. Oh my friends, you cannot tell how many shapes pride will assume. Look sharp about you, or you will be deceived by it, and when you think that you are entertaining angels, you will find that you have been receiving the devil unaware."

-Charles Spurgeon

I originally found this in a book I read called "Humility: The Forgotten Virtue" by Wayne A. Mack. I do recommend it on your behalf :)
 
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Stravinsk

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A quote -

"Pride is the maddest thing that can exist. It feeds upon its own vitals. It will take away its own life, that with its blood it may make a purple robe for its shoulders. It saps and undermines its own house, that it may build its pinnacles a little higher, and then the whole structure tumbles down. Nothing proves men so mad as pride. For this they have given up rest, and ease, and repose to find rank and power among men. For this they have dared to risk their hope of salvation, to leave the gentle yoke of Jesus, and go toiling wearily along the way of life, seeking to save themselves by their own works, and at last to stagger in the mire of despair.

O man, hate pride! Flee from it; abhor it. Let it not dwell with thee. If thou wantest to have a madman in your heart, embrace pride, for you shall never find one more mad than he. You may find it in any fashion you may choose: you may see it in the beggar's rags as well as in the rich man's garment. It dwells with the rich and with the poor. A man without a shoe to his foot may be as proud as if he were riding in a chariot.

Pride can be found in every rank of society, among all classes of men. Sometimes it is an Arminian, and talks about the power of the creature. Then it turns Calvinistic, and boasts of its fancied security, forgetful of the Maker who alone can keep faith alive. It may be a Church man [Roman Catholic] and worship God in splendid cathedrals, and go to the common meeting house. It is one of the most universal things in the world. It attends all kinds of chapels and churches. Look where you will, you will see pride. It comes up with us to the house of God. It goes with us to our houses. It is found int he marketplace, and in the business place, in the streets, and everywhere...

Pride will get into the Christian's heart as well as the sinners'. It will flourish under the name of self-sufficiency, teaching the Christian that he is rich and increased in goods, having need of nothing. It will tell him that he doesn't need daily grace, that past experience will do for tomorrow, that he knows enough, toils enough, prays enough. It will make him forget that he has not yet attained. It will not allow him to press forward to the things that are before, forgetting the things that are behind, but enters into his heart, and tempts the believer to set up an independent business for himself. And until the Lord brings about a spiritual bankruptcy, pride will keep him from going to God.

Pride has ten thousand shapes. It is not always that stiff and starched gentleman that you picture it. It is a vile, creepy, insinuating thing that will twist itself like a serpent into our hearts. It will talk about humility and prate about being dust and ashes. I've known men talk about their corruption most marvelously, pretending to be all humility, while at the same time they were the proudest wretches that could be found this side of the gulf of separation. Oh my friends, you cannot tell how many shapes pride will assume. Look sharp about you, or you will be deceived by it, and when you think that you are entertaining angels, you will find that you have been receiving the devil unaware."

-Charles Spurgeon

I originally found this in a book I read called "Humility: The Forgotten Virtue" by Wayne A. Mack. I do recommend it on your behalf :)

I think I'm going to save that and check out the book too. Thanks!
 
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Kirisutokyoo-shinja

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What about pride when you need help?
Or when not letting someone see you're hurting.

These are the types of things that I do attempt to affront, even with something that might without tactful insertion attain a classic, ineffective, clichéd usage:

to assert that one is more worthy, valiant, strong, and/or honorable as it were, if one were to do the opposite of this tendency, though the original disposition would seem... praiseworthy in someway by default.

In other words, you would be more of a Superheroine to ask for help when needed. I'm speaking with a double-edged sword here as I indict myself, constantly in this small point, but largely applicable feature of my personality.

Asking for help concerning anything I might consider significant and not trivial to life requires an incredible amount of energy, intent, and humility on my part.

Are you able to dissect your pride? To understand what your pride is connected or grounded in? What desire have you that you wish to protect? What is it you wish to prevent?

Perhaps common to all pride is, interest in feigned, even illusory superiority - by way of entitlement... which strangely enough may even be manifested as a fear... if this makes any amount of since to anyone reading this. A sense of entitlement to invulnerability - physically, emotionally, spiritually, in general repute, and presentation of self to others all fit the bill.

Any thoughts?

By the way - Thank you for posting what you have. Thank you for admitting your pride.

Thank you for asking for thoughts, suggestions, readings.... help. :)

I should do it m ore often.
 
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white dove

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My pride's been stripped down a lot lately. Over the past couple years, it's just sort of dwindled down. It's a great place to be because being built up again is quite refreshing and rejuvenating. At the same time, it's very frustrating. For years, I put a lot into other people and neglected myself. Then, I became a person I couldn't recognize anymore. I became a selfish [dillweed]; so self-absorbed and gross. Even amidst that, I felt my pride take a tumble. Doesn't make sense, does it? Yet, it happened. I guess I hated how I had become, so how can you really feel pride in that?

As far as pride, in general... or more specifically: I enjoy taking pride in my work (whether that be my writing, art or work/school achievements), but I can also be pretty hard on myself, too which makes it difficult. But, I do enjoy having worked on something, having the blood, sweat and tears worked out of me to get it done and have that final product or work left standing. I must admit, I do also enjoy getting acknowledgment where it is due (like at work) because I am career-minded or grades (like A's) because I know that I am capable. I don't know that that's wrong though. I really don't know. :/
 
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Pride is a fault that led to Satan's fall, the falls of empires, our fall from grace, and our continuing in sin. The only pride that is incorruptible is the glory in loving God and others. Even pride in your work becomes corruptible, for many reasons. When you take pride in what you do you often miss out on those who have helped you reach so far. When you take pride in your works you often put those above God and begin to lose the relationship, and the humbleness to come to God for help. When your work becomes the source of your pride you have turned your eyes from him who deserves all glory. Every good gift comes from God even good upbringing. A person will begin to be judgmental when his pride is in himself and not what God is doing in him or her. Then a person can see themselves as too good for someone else, whether it be their spouse, their kids, or even their friends. If God loved us when we were yet enemies why are we not called to reflect the same mercy. What a great debt I owe, who am I to judge my debtors. Pride will make you fall, and God's discipline isn't fun, but his mercy endures forever.
 
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Inkachu

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I don't think pride is ever a virtue. I do think excessive pride is a fault. BUT...I don't think all forms of pride are faults. Occasional feelings of "Yay! I did it!" aren't evil, IMHO. It's comparable to anger. Anger isn't a virtue, but occasonal, righteous anger is certainly acceptable. But excessive, uncontrolled anger is definitely a fault.

Hope that made sense...
 
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Inkachu

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I'm glad you understood me, Amp lol. I read it again and thought "huh? I didn't word that very well..."

How about this? "I could more easily forgive his vanity had he not wounded mine." :thumbsup:
 
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kevlite2020

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well pride is typically bad while confidence is typically good, but the issue is confidence needs a bit of pride for "fuel" so to speak. Take employment for example. We should know what we are good at as workers and not be afraid to be confident in doing those things. That's not the moment to be humble and tell a potential employer, "well I'm sure there's lots of people a whole lot better than me and I don't really know that I can do this." No you man up and say, this is my talent set, this is what I bring to the table, I'm confident that I can handle this, this, and this. See that's healthy. But when you cross that line into pride saying, oh I can do this better than anyone, nobody can compete with me, I'm the best thing since sliced bread, now you're in dangerous territory.

And it's like that with all aspects of life. Like dating, you want to be confident in who you are, and that confidence is attractive. But when it turns into prideful/ego boasting type, then you are in trouble. So it's a fine line and I think it blurs in a lot of places. It is certainly hard to keep pride in check while maintaining a healthy level of confidence and satisfaction in your life/work.
 
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Amber.ly

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I think pride is a double edged sword. On the one hand, most people beleive that you need to feel a sense of accomplishment and confidence in yourself to be a healthy person. Because if we don't we end up with low self esteem and don't love ourselves enough. The flipside to that though is often arrogance, selfishness and lack of reliance or even disbelief of God and who He is.

I'm not convinced that God's plan for believers was ever to find a sense of confidence in ourselves APART from Him. Say we are proud that we finished some project at work or school. That isn't inherently wrong or sinful but what do we do? More often than not, instead of giving God the glory for the mind and skills we possess, we congratulate ourselves on how amazing we are/did. We have a boastful spirit and even if it's not putting others down, I don't think the credit is given to the right person.

I don't know. Obviously I need to spend more time thinking about this but my inclination is that until we learn that everything good in us is from God, we are not going to have the mindset and humilty neccesarry to be effective in our faith.

I'm willing to be wrong about this though as long as you can prove that I'm off my rocker through scripture :p
 
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broken_one

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Have you ever heard of Aristotelian ethics?

Too much of one thing is bad (immoral to Aristotle), and so is too little. Esteem is one of them.

To have too little esteem is to be a doormat, a nervous wreck (erm :sorry:)......and to have too much is to be prideful, also immoral. Calm, cool confidence is the idea, the "middle" so to speak.

So yes, pride is a fault because it is too much esteem....it is over-confidence, though not always manifested in that way (specifically, cockiness).
 
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lostaquarium

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There are different ways of defining "pride" isn't there?

You can be proud of something, e.g. your house, like "I'm so thankful I have this beautiful house, I'm going to keep it clean and tidy and make it look nice, etc."

Or you can be proud of your house, like "I'm so cool I earned money and got this huge house, I'm so much awesomer than people who live in smaller houses."

Same thing with children. It's generally good to be proud of your children, of their accomplishments and sweetness and thank God for giving them to you. But a bad sort of pride would be to count their accomplishments as yours, and use them to show what a perfect parent you are.
 
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white dove

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Psm116:7 said:
I'm not convinced that God's plan for believers was ever to find a sense of confidence in ourselves APART from Him. Say we are proud that we finished some project at work or school. That isn't inherently wrong or sinful but what do we do? More often than not, instead of giving God the glory for the mind and skills we possess, we congratulate ourselves on how amazing we are/did. We have a boastful spirit and even if it's not putting others down, I don't think the credit is given to the right person.

Hm... some good thoughts there. You are onto something. :thumbsup:
 
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