Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical teaching?

Clare73 said:

Precisely. . .counterfeit faith is no faith (Mt 7:22-23), it's counterfeit, not real.

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Yes, it is NO FAITH, NEVER WAS REAL.

Abraham1st said:

You deny all I show you clare73, and I can correct all you are able to ever speak about, as long as the Lord gives me the answers to answer you with.

True saving faith remains true, or it does fall away, that is why both chapters you quote here speak of believing in the promises of God because BY FAITH THEY STAND.

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If they fall, it's because their faith was counterfeit, it was not true saving faith, because true saving faith stands, because it is preserved by the Holy Spirit (2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14), and they did not stand. . .therefore, their faith was not true saving faith preserved by the Holy Spirit, it was counterfeit faith.

Clare73 said:

If they fall, it's because their faith was counterfeit, it was not true saving faith, because true saving faith stands, and they did not stand. . .therefore, their faith was not true, saving faith, it was counterfeit.

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yes clare773, they had no faith, no belief.

So now we all saw that there are many teachers nowadays, and they teach very little importance, and that is a teaching we shod all accept and beware of.

Abraham1st said:

yes clare773, they had no faith, no belief.

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They had counterfeit faith, counterfeit belief (Mt 7:22), which is not true saving faith or belief (Mt 7:23).

Clare73 said:

They had counterfeit faith, counterfeit belief (Mt 7:22), which is not true saving faith or belief (Mt 7:23).

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Clare73 said:
Precisely. . .counterfeit faith is no faith


We saw your conclusion clare, and we can all agree, IT IS NO FAITH.

Also true standing faith, remains true, it is preserved by faith which works by love.

The love of God is shed into our hearts by the Holy Ghost given unto us, and WE STAND BY FAITH. (not by doubting, and DENYING GOD IN WORKS, BEING ABOMINABLE AND DISOBEDIENT AND UNTO EVERY GOOD WORK REPROBATE/MANY FALSE PROPHETS GATHERING THORNS AN THISTLES.)



Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

So I suppose I might as well talk to myself on this thread, who else seems to have even a simple thing to share.

We do not reply on the word of anyone now, there are many false prophets, don't I prove that on the forum at all.

So what is left is to stand by our own faith, if we have any, and it is best to make it diligent, just as we might want to be careful if we had a precious child of our own, we might want them to be careful i every way they could possibly be, to never have anything terrible happen to them.

Abraham1st said:

Clare73 said:
Precisely. . .counterfeit faith is no faith

We saw your conclusion clare, and we can all agree, IT IS NO FAITH.

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It is not true faith, it is counterfeit faith, as the faith claimed by those in Mt 7:22-23.

Clare73 said:

Au contraire. . .that is precisely an example of counterfeit faith. . .it was a "faith" that did not save.
Read it again. . .they claimed to be doing it in Jesus' name (Mt 7:22-23), that's a statement of faith.

It has everything to do with an example of counterfeit faith which you deny. . .counterfeit faith is also the faith that falls away from the belief one once had. True saving faith does not fall away (2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:14). . .only counterfeit faith falls away.

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They never claimed to have believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life, so there is no counterfeit faith.

Faith/belief in Jesus always gives the person God's free pernamnet gift of Eternal Life.

There is no such thing as counterfeit belief in Jesus for Eternal Life.

A person can say they believe Jesus existed and/or even believe Jesus died on the cross for their sins. But that is not what gives a person God's free gift of Eternal Life. It is only belief in Jesus the person for Eternal Life

d taylor said:

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They never claimed to have believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life, so there is no counterfeit faith.

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Where does Paul make a specific claim to "believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life"?

Clare73 said:

Where does Paul make a specific claim to "believe in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life"?

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Paul writes to believers so he does not need to evangelize believers. John writes to the person who has not believed yet in Jesus.

But when Paul did evangelize he used the message he was taught from Jesus.

But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

and what does Jesus teach

Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

Abraham1st said:

The seal of the holy spirit of promise is our earnest/SINCERE CONVICTION, of our inheritance UNTIL THE REDEMPTION OF THE PURCHASED POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory.

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So if you are sealed by the Holy Spirit after you believed, no one can break that seal.

That was my point.

Clare73 said:

It is no true faith, it is counterfeit faith, as the faith claimed by those in Mt 7:22-23.

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They did not claim faith, they are FALSE PROPHETS, it is an EMAMPLE, HOW TO BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS

Guojing said:

So if you are sealed by the Holy Spirit after you believed, no one can break that seal.

That was my point.

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Everyone can break that seal, is the point.

The whole world is downhill in faithlessness, of course that breaks any seal, as it is FAITH WHAT YOU STAND BY, in a world that was said to have none at this time.


Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Anyone on this thread want to see a good VERY RELEVANT passage for how to keep in faith, not hear liars about saying you cant lose salvation, or they would have at least a word or two to speak about a whole chapter, wouldn't they.



2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Abraham1st said:

Everyone can break that seal, is the point.

The whole world is downhill in faithlessness, of course that breaks any seal, as it is FAITH WHAT YOU STAND BY, in a world that was said to have none at this time.


Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

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Like I said, try to understand the Greek word where it was translated to "sealed" in the KJV, and you will understand that you cannot break that.

If you choose not to, that is also fine, we can move on.

Guojing said:

Like I said, try to understand the Greek word where it was translated to "sealed" in the KJV, and you will understand that you cannot break that.

If you choose not to, that is also fine, we can move on.

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The promises of God CANNOT BE BROKEN, believing in promises requires to continue to be faithful, believing.

Those PROMISES OF GOD ARE SEALED, others STAND BY FAITH.

I agree with you, if you choose not to see any other scripture, apart from latching onto a single word, the word SEALED, we can move on.



2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
2 Receive us; we have wronged no man, we have corrupted no man, we have defrauded no man.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Abraham1st said:

They did not claim faith, they are FALSE PROPHETS, it is an EMAMPLE, HOW TO BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS

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"In your name" (Mt 7:22) is a claim of faith.

d taylor said:

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Paul writes to believers so he does not need to evangelize believers. John writes to the person who has not believed yet in Jesus.
But when Paul did evangelize he used the message he was taught from Jesus.
But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
and what does Jesus teach
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.

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Specific?