I've always tried to back 'wimps,' however never felt MC was a 'wimp' like myself...back him into a corner and he comes out swinging with the true Word of God...duck!
Old Jack weighing in.
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MoreCoffee is not a bully. He is a valued contributor to CF (GT in particular), and has been for a long time.
I say that even though I am not not now, never have been and never will be Catholic, and also despite the fact that I disagree with his stance in this particular thread.
I've always tried to back 'wimps,' however never felt MC was a 'wimp' like myself...back him into a corner and he comes out swinging with the true Word of God...duck!
Old Jack weighing in.
All I saw him swinging was the pope's authority. Not binding on non-Catholics.
If you want my attention, you'll need to argue from Scripture...
"The Catholic church says" only works for Catholics. It's not some kind of magic incantation that is going to make everyone agree.
I mean, the Inquisitions didn't even accomplish that.
What did you think the term "Protestant" means?
Right. I was aware that we had strayed a bit, but there was so little agreement on what a heresy means that it seemed necessary to address that. And as for your specific inquiry...
As I understand it, any "annihilation" would be considered a heresy, as would a temporary hell resulting in everyone being saved sooner or later. Describing hell as a place of loss and alienation from God but not pitchforks and fire would not be a heresy.
why? because it goes against Christian teachings on the materWhy? Based on what?
Never heard it put quite like that, but you might have a point there.....Well. To hear a catholic use the term? Just as bad as the "N" word.
are Protestants Christians?
lol, Little Lamb
anyway - Hi Jack !!
long time no see!
So if a Christian did not believe that some people will stay in hell and be eternally punished/tortured, and instead believed in Annihiliationism or Universal Reconciliation, is that heretical thought?
Or what if a Christian was not sure on which belief in hell to accept (and therefore was not 100% sure that an eternal hell exists)?
Just curious on people's opinions here on whether or not it is heresy to not accept 100% the traditional view of hell.
PS: This may belong in the unorthodox section, thought I did want to see the opinion of people who are orthodox when it comes to this matter.
Annihiliationism = not heresy; Universalism = heresy
That's my two cents.
I protest being alluded to a RC, or was it Protestant? That sometimers again,
Old Jack still a Lutheran I think?
Better to enter battle with 2 black eyes than no eyes at allI received a few black eyes since I seen you last Anto, MC still has an ice pack on...we're still in the battle.
Think long, think wrong.
Better to enter battle with 2 black eyes than no eyes at all
.
It is fine if you are, and if you think that not believing in eternal torment is heresy...but you don't get to impose that thinking on everyone else.
That sort of thing is why there are Protestants in the first place.
The days of Inquisitions are over. Your church's authority as to what is or is not heresy is limited to your own congregations.
So the point is kind of lost on people who are rethinking these ancient ideas
I was raised Episcopalian...a very good Catholic friend calls it "Catholic Lite"...but I am one who is rethinking the whole "eternal damnation" thing. It just doesn't feel like God, to me.
You don't want to know where I think the idea originally came from...but I very honestly do not think God thought it up....
I thought we covered that already?
That only works for Catholics.
Most of us really don't care what your church teaches.
I'm not trying to offend you, just trying to tell you that, if you want to persuade anyone to think as you do, telling them "my church says" isn't going to be much help.
Guys, with all due respect, this isn't the Middle Ages any more. The Inquisitions are over....
Listening to them, I can almost hear the blood dripping...
We have thrown off the chains of the RC.
Why would we willingly put them back on?
I mean, the pope is a cool guy, and all...and I wish him the best...
But he's still just a man, like everyone else. He has no authority over me.
I see the inquisition did go on behind my back while I slept.
Nice.
Okay...what I said was that nobody who is not Catholic is going to be impressed with what your church teaches. What I said is that if you truly want to persuade someone else who is not Catholic that your view is the correct one, you'd do better to use Scripture than church tradition.
The Middle Ages are over. No one trembles at the thought that the Catholics might get you if you don't watch out any more.
Just thought you might like to know...
And to think I slept so well...
Look, you misunderstood me. I tried to tell you that the Catholic church no longer has the authority to tell people outside of the church what is heresy and what is not. It is not the Middle Ages any more...at least not among the rest of Christendom.
I have nothing whatsoever against the Catholic church...well, except for some of your history. I would do anything to avoid giving you back the authority that you once had. You would only abuse it again, as you have proven.
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