is new wine fermented?

Source Scripture · Feb 26, 2015

Norah63 said:
My my, so many that see the moving of the Holy Spirit in acts 2 as the crowd saw it.
And not as Peter said.
Whatever, if the young and so called weak have the new wine, then it will be the older more mature
to partake of old wine.
May there be peace in all the churches.

Purim is coming.....

Yes, I agree with Peter, they were not drunk on wine, but the fact that the crowd said they were drunk on new wine, shows that the new wine, of their time could get a person drunk. So they were wrong about the ones who were receiving the Spirit, but they were right, apparently new wine could get a person drunk.

Also on the thread, there have been references to Purim, Seder meals, pharisees, etc. That's all fine and good, but I personally don't use that as my standard to go by as far as what beverages I consume. I am a part of the Church, not a part of the above mentioned things. Thanks, SS.

Dave-W · Feb 26, 2015

Devorim said:
But when it comes to what the Bible says, nowhere does it say that drinking wine is a sin; as has already been written, it's the getting drunk that is the sin.

That is true; and even some of the most ardent anti-alcohol crowd will agree.

HOWEVER, they justify their position this way:

If it takes 6 drinks to get you good and drunk, then one drink makes you one sixth drunk.
One sixth drunk is still drunk.

abysmul · Feb 26, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
The congregation I attended as a child up until high school taught that even SMELLING alcohol immediatly revoked your salvation,

I heard endless sermons condemning Scope, Listerene, Vanilla Extract, etc. Any household product that contained alcohol revoked your salvation.

No doubt there are entire congregations that believe that way. I'm really curious tough, I wonder overall what the numbers would be. Yes, there is no way of really knowing.

Source Scripture · Feb 26, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
That is true; and even some of the most ardent anti-alcohol crowd will agree.

HOWEVER, they justify their position this way:

If it takes 6 drinks to get you good and drunk, then one drink makes you one sixth drunk.
One sixth drunk is still drunk.

Then if that were true, there would not be a set standard with local municipalities, as far as being able to drive, with a certain alcohol limit. They would not let you drive drunk. The anti-alcohol crowd will say anything, to prevent a person from having a drink, as you indicate here.Thanks, SS.

Dave-W · Feb 26, 2015

abysmul said:
No doubt there are entire congregations that believe that way. I'm really curious tough, I wonder overall what the numbers would be. Yes, there is no way of really knowing.

While I was in college, just south across the state line, an ethanol plant opened up (gasoline additive) which made the entire town smell like stale beer if the wind was right. The congregation dissolved.

Hopefully that kind of teaching is going away permanently.

Dave-W · Feb 26, 2015

Source Scripture said:
If it takes 6 drinks to get you good and drunk, then one drink makes you one sixth drunk.
One sixth drunk is still drunk.

Click to expand...

Then if that were true, there would not be a set standard with local municipalities, as far as being able to drive, with a certain alcohol limit. They would not let you drive drunk. The anti-alcohol crowd will say anything, to prevent a person from having a drink, as you indicate here.Thanks, SS.

They were talking SPIRITUALLY, not physically. That is why my childhood congregation taught that even smelling a whiff of alcohol was considered being drunk, even though there was no detectable effect from it.

psalms 91 · Feb 26, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
They were talking SPIRITUALLY, not physically. That is why my childhood congregation taught that even smelling a whiff of alcohol was considered being drunk, even though there was no detectable effect from it.

Does the Word not say that a little wine is good for you? Seems to contradict that

Norah63 · Feb 26, 2015

Scriptures are often used to backup both thoughts on this issue of "new" wine.
I must admit surprise at how those who get pleasure from alcohol of any kind, see those who don't drink as weak, or judgemental. Those childhood memories can be healed by the Holy Spirit.
Not wanting to join in the bible ping-pong of verses to feed the ego, I shall just offer my hope that this topic has been helpful, for all to learn from.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Peace in the churches.

Source Scripture · Feb 26, 2015

psalms 91 said:
Does the Word not say that a little wine is good for you? Seems to contradict that

The scriptures do seem to indicate what you say. It says "desire and craves", in reference to wine, and strong drink.SS.

Deuteronomy 14:23-26
And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desireoxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

debateableduck · Feb 26, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
If it takes 6 drinks to get you good and drunk, then one drink makes you one sixth drunk.
One sixth drunk is still drunk.

Sounds like to me another reductionist concept.

Woot.

Devorim · Feb 26, 2015

abysmul said:
I wonder how many Christians view the wine/juice decision as something that could endanger their salvation?

That would be a sad condition, but that was what my old church did.....

Alithis · Feb 26, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
I agree. And if it really WAS the Lord that told you to abstain from alcohol - that is fine. Just remember He has not told that to everyone, or even most people.

missed this reply /so sorry for a late response .

yes absolutely.

please forgive-me if i gave the impression i advocate abstinence for all-i do not .
nor am i personally offended by those around me imbibing at the same table as I .I joy in their liberty in Christ Jesus

I was only advocating LOVE over self indulgence . that is simply to say ..-if you even remotely suspect your brother 'aint happy about you banging back a wine or beer ...then , for his sake ..don't do it ,put him first because that is what Love does and LOVE is the first and foremost rule in all such things ..

i don't like it when people have the attitude of ..ahh but I am free to do it so I will do what I want and you just have to deal with it ... that could not be missing the point of love more -

hope that clarifies

Sabertooth · Feb 26, 2015

Many here seem to make drunkenness the point where alcohol becomes sin, but I beg to differ...

It could be shown that Jesus' very first miracle accommodated drunkenness.

John 2:7-10 NIV said:
Jesus said to the servants, Fill the jars with water; so they filled them to the brim.

Then he told them, Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.
They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink (that is, gotten drunk); but you (under those circumstances) have saved the best till now.

The real issues that I see are alcoholatry [addiction = idolatry] and sin accommodation.

Jesus said,
"If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." Matthew 5:29-30 NIV

If an eye or a hand should be abandoned so quickly, how much more quickly should we abandon alcohol (not being a body part) if it, too, causes us to stumble? Unless and until it does, though, it need not be abandoned.

Dave-W · Feb 27, 2015

psalms 91 said:
Does the Word not say that a little wine is good for you? Seems to contradict that

They took that as grape juice.

Because, of course, If Paul had meant alcoholic wine - he would have been telling his young pupil Timothy to sin. (and thereby lose his salvation)

Dave-W · Feb 27, 2015

Source Scripture said:
The scriptures do seem to indicate what you say. It says "desire and craves", in reference to wine, and strong drink.SS.

Deuteronomy 14:23-26
And before the Lord your God, in the place that he will choose, to make his name dwell there, you shall eat the tithe of your grain, of your wine, and of your oil, and the firstborn of your herd and flock, that you may learn to fear the Lord your God always. 24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desireoxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Actually I think Ps 91 had this verse in mind:

1 Timothy 5:23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

Dave-W · Feb 27, 2015

Sabertooth said:
Many here seem to make drunkenness the point where alcohol becomes sin, but I beg to differ...

It could be shown that Jesus' very first miracle accommodated drunkenness.

Originally Posted by John 2:7-10 NIV
Jesus said to the servants, Fill the jars with water; so they filled them to the brim.

Then he told them, Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.
They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink (that is, gotten drunk); but you (under those circumstances) have saved the best till now.

Click to expand...

But of course that story was shown to have been grape juice instead of alcoholic wine. Proof? the last phrase: "... you have saved the best till now. And of course EVERYONE knows how much better grape juice tastes than that nasty old wine ......

Norah63 · Feb 27, 2015

So now old wine is nasty? Hold on there, Purim is coming in just a few days.
Just because new wine is better, that's a good thing isn't it?
Ya know, take off the old and put on the new....

Dave-W · May 13, 2016

Norah63 said:
I guess Dave or Source does not have an opinion on how much our teen age children should drink.
Seeing they want them to be spirit filled Christians, what example or advice do they have for the young Christians.

First time I saw this question. By now this is a zombie thread.

We are instructed to obey the law of the land and that (in the US) says alcohol is NOT to be had or used by those under age 21.

So we teach abstinence until 21 and moderation (short of being drunk) after that.

Dave-W · May 13, 2016

Norah63 said:
So now old wine is nasty?

That was one preacher's opinion.

AGTG · May 15, 2016

New Wine = New Covenant
New Wine = Jesus' shed blood
New Wineskin = Resurrected regenerate spirit person
Old Wine = Mosaic Covenant
Old Wine = The blood of slain beasts
Old Wineskin = Old Man, flesh

is new wine fermented?

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