LDS Is Moroni a fallen demonic angel?

[Peter1000]

If you look I've been here for 2 1/2 years and over 4,000
Posts.

Would be odd for you to do anything but speculate.

Maybe it's time to report your rudeness and get this thread closed.

Everybody take another deep breath and let's not close the thread, everyone loses then.

 

[Peter1000]

Your comment was still rude, incorrect, unfounded, and un-Christ-like.

Everyone take another deep breath and lets not get this thread closed. Everyone loses then. Thanks

 

[ToBeLoved]

Your comment was still rude, incorrect, unfounded, and un-Christ-like.

I think that you are also rude.

 

[mmksparbud]

Well, now---finally, a consensus of opinion-----I'm rude, you're rude, they're rude---everybody is rude--Halleluiah, we're in agreement!!!

Back to topic????

 

[withwonderingawe]

The problem I have with “reformed” Egyptian is that around 600 B.C. when Lehi left Jerusalem and came to North America, the Hebrews were not writing in Egyptian, let alone “reformed” Egyptian. They were writing in a “reformed” Phoenician/Proto Canaanite but the change to recognizable Hebrew had already started.

I think I've answered this before I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself;

Reformed Egyptian sort of a misnomer.

It is believed by some who have studied the Book of Mormon that Lehi was a trader who traveled between Jerusalem and Egypt. He had the tents and was ready to go at a moments notices. His wife is named Sariah which has been found among a group of Jews who were living along the Nile. He named one son Sam, not Samuel but Sam which is the Egyptian for Shem, so there is some connection there.

Now let’s look at what the Book of Mormon actually says;

Nephi writes; "Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians." 1Nephi

Nearly a thousand years later one of his descendants Mormon writes (Mormon 9)

32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.
34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.

Someone called it shorthand Egyptian which only they could read but even their Hebrew had major changes to it. It would be like us trying to understand Old English.

But the point is The Book of Mormon does not claim there is such a thing as Reformed Egyptian in 600 bc but that they reformed it to fit their own specific needs.

This article is written by William J. Hamblin

“…..Turning specifically to Egyptian, there are numerous examples of modified (or reformed) Egyptian characters being used to write non-Egyptian languages, none of which were known in Joseph Smith’s day.

The Egyptian language was written in three related but distinct scripts. The oldest is hieroglyphic script, dating to around 3000 bc; it was essentially a monumental script for stone inscriptions. Hieratic, a second script, is a modified form of Egyptian hieroglyphics used to write formal documents on papyrus with brush and ink, and demotic is a cursive script…...

The earliest known example of mixing a Semitic language with modified Egyptian hieroglyphic characters is the Byblos Syllabic inscriptions (eighteenth century bc), from the city of Byblos on the Phoenician coast. This script is described as a “syllabify [that] is clearly inspired by the Egyptian hieroglyphic system, and in fact it is the most important link known between the hieroglyphs and the Canaanite alphabet.” Interestingly enough, most Byblos Syllabic texts were written on copper plates. Thus, it would not be unreasonable to describe the Byblos Syllabic texts as a Semitic language written on metal plates in reformed Egyptian characters, which is precisely what the Book of Mormon describes…”

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/publications/review/19/1/S00006-5176a7ad373d86Hamblin.pdf

 

[Peter1000]

I think I've answered this before I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself;

Reformed Egyptian sort of a misnomer.

It is believed by some who have studied the Book of Mormon that Lehi was a trader who traveled between Jerusalem and Egypt. He had the tents and was ready to go at a moments notices. His wife is named Sariah which has been found among a group of Jews who were living along the Nile. He named one son Sam, not Samuel but Sam which is the Egyptian for Shem, so there is some connection there.

Now let’s look at what the Book of Mormon actually says;

Nephi writes; "Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians." 1Nephi

Nearly a thousand years later one of his descendants Mormon writes (Mormon 9)



32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.
34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.

Someone called it shorthand Egyptian which only they could read but even their Hebrew had major changes to it. It would be like us trying to understand Old English.

But the point is The Book of Mormon does not claim there is such a thing as Reformed Egyptian in 600 bc but that they reformed it to fit their own specific needs.

This article is written by William J. Hamblin

“…..Turning specifically to Egyptian, there are numerous examples of modified (or reformed) Egyptian characters being used to write non-Egyptian languages, none of which were known in Joseph Smith’s day.

The Egyptian language was written in three related but distinct scripts. The oldest is hieroglyphic script, dating to around 3000 bc; it was essentially a monumental script for stone inscriptions. Hieratic, a second script, is a modified form of Egyptian hieroglyphics used to write formal documents on papyrus with brush and ink, and demotic is a cursive script…...

The earliest known example of mixing a Semitic language with modified Egyptian hieroglyphic characters is the Byblos Syllabic inscriptions (eighteenth century bc), from the city of Byblos on the Phoenician coast. This script is described as a “syllabify [that] is clearly inspired by the Egyptian hieroglyphic system, and in fact it is the most important link known between the hieroglyphs and the Canaanite alphabet.” Interestingly enough, most Byblos Syllabic texts were written on copper plates. Thus, it would not be unreasonable to describe the Byblos Syllabic texts as a Semitic language written on metal plates in reformed Egyptian characters, which is precisely what the Book of Mormon describes…”

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/publications/review/19/1/S00006-5176a7ad373d86Hamblin.pdf

A nice piece of research, withwonderingawe. This is a much better expanation than I gave. Thank you for the publication too, I will read it and be better prepared next time to discuss this topic.

 

[mmksparbud]

I think I've answered this before I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself;

Reformed Egyptian sort of a misnomer.

It is believed by some who have studied the Book of Mormon that Lehi was a trader who traveled between Jerusalem and Egypt. He had the tents and was ready to go at a moments notices. His wife is named Sariah which has been found among a group of Jews who were living along the Nile. He named one son Sam, not Samuel but Sam which is the Egyptian for Shem, so there is some connection there.

Now let’s look at what the Book of Mormon actually says;

Nephi writes; "Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians." 1Nephi

Nearly a thousand years later one of his descendants Mormon writes (Mormon 9)

32 And now, behold, we have written this record according to our knowledge, in the characters which are called among us the reformed Egyptian, being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech.
33 And if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew; but the Hebrew hath been altered by us also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.
34 But the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also that none other people knoweth our language; and because that none other people knoweth our language, therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof.

Someone called it shorthand Egyptian which only they could read but even their Hebrew had major changes to it. It would be like us trying to understand Old English.

But the point is The Book of Mormon does not claim there is such a thing as Reformed Egyptian in 600 bc but that they reformed it to fit their own specific needs.

This article is written by William J. Hamblin

“…..Turning specifically to Egyptian, there are numerous examples of modified (or reformed) Egyptian characters being used to write non-Egyptian languages, none of which were known in Joseph Smith’s day.

The Egyptian language was written in three related but distinct scripts. The oldest is hieroglyphic script, dating to around 3000 bc; it was essentially a monumental script for stone inscriptions. Hieratic, a second script, is a modified form of Egyptian hieroglyphics used to write formal documents on papyrus with brush and ink, and demotic is a cursive script…...

The earliest known example of mixing a Semitic language with modified Egyptian hieroglyphic characters is the Byblos Syllabic inscriptions (eighteenth century bc), from the city of Byblos on the Phoenician coast. This script is described as a “syllabify [that] is clearly inspired by the Egyptian hieroglyphic system, and in fact it is the most important link known between the hieroglyphs and the Canaanite alphabet.” Interestingly enough, most Byblos Syllabic texts were written on copper plates. Thus, it would not be unreasonable to describe the Byblos Syllabic texts as a Semitic language written on metal plates in reformed Egyptian characters, which is precisely what the Book of Mormon describes…”

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/publications/review/19/1/S00006-5176a7ad373d86Hamblin.pdf

Thank you---now---how did what I say, distort what you said???

"According to our manner speech, handed down and altered by us-"--that means nobody else had their shorthand manner of writing to go along with their own manner of speech. That means there should be any no other group of people with the same manner of writing and speech---it was uniquely their own their own, and named reformed Egyptian by them.

Does not what you said all come down to nobody else had their type of writing and speech but them?? Yet we are accused of distorting---don't understand that.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Thank you---now---how did what I say, distort what you said???



Does not what you said all come down to nobody else had their type of writing and speech but them?? Yet we are accused of distorting---don't understand that.

I didn't intend to say you personally are distorting anything, it's just that some people have misunderstood what the actual Book of Mormon thought was on the subject. Antis pick pick pick and try ever which way to find fault and in so doing they most often distort the truth.

But we Mormons are also guilty of reading to much into the book. Years ago most Mormons just assumed the story line covered both north and south America but a careful reading of the book shows it only happened within a 500 mile radius.

 

[JustHereToTalk]

I always hear people talk about Galatians, but never hear anyone explain the fact that Revelation talks about an angel carrying the gospel.

It's not like the gospel *couldn't* be carried by some non-human thing, but being called "angel" in the Bible by no means removes a character's humanity, regardless of what you believe. The original/semi-original terminology is used in both the Old and New Testaments in reference to human beings all over the place; we just translate it differently. For instance, when you see a place in the OT where the passage says "and this one guy sent messengers to another guy," more than likely the Hebrew text is using the same word that is translated "angel" elsewhere.

The OT term, "malak," is related to "yalak," which is to walk. Despite modern depictions with wings and harps and Greek clothing, the purpose of an "angel" is to walk. They do the leg work for someone else, be they human walkers, who walk to and fro between two cities, two factions, or two kings, or be they those who walk between God and whoever - human or whatever else they might be. The Greek term is aggelos, from which we get our anglicized "angel."

So, especially when we see an "angel" performing actions in a symbolic work of prophecy, it is not to be simply presumed that we are to exclude humanity from its meaning (or whatever equivalent thing which a Mormon would do). "Angels" are human, too, and in works of prophecy one "angel" can represent a number of things. Again, not that a kinda-sorta-non-human-ish critter couldn't carry the gospel - that happens in the Bible as well.

 

[ToBeLoved]

It's not like the gospel *couldn't* be carried by some non-human thing, but being called "angel" in the Bible by no means removes a character's humanity, regardless of what you believe. The original/semi-original terminology is used in both the Old and New Testaments in reference to human beings all over the place; we just translate it differently. For instance, when you see a place in the OT where the passage says "and this one guy sent messengers to another guy," more than likely the Hebrew text is using the same word that is translated "angel" elsewhere.

The OT term, "malak," is related to "yalak," which is to walk. Despite modern depictions with wings and harps and Greek clothing, the purpose of an "angel" is to walk. They do the leg work for someone else, be they human walkers, who walk to and fro between two cities, two factions, or two kings, or be they those who walk between God and whoever - human or whatever else they might be. The Greek term is aggelos, from which we get our anglicized "angel."

So, especially when we see an "angel" performing actions in a symbolic work of prophecy, it is not to be simply presumed that we are to exclude humanity from its meaning (or whatever equivalent thing which a Mormon would do). "Angels" are human, too, and in works of prophecy one "angel" can represent a number of things. Again, not that a kinda-sorta-non-human-ish critter couldn't carry the gospel - that happens in the Bible as well.

What is the exact verse/verses that @Ironhold is talking about?

His saying 'i remember something like ..." just doesn't do it for me.

 

[JustHereToTalk]

What is the exact verse/verses that @Ironhold is talking about?

His saying 'i remember something like ..." just doesn't do it for me.

I'm sortof a new member here and I just read the rule that I'm not supposed to be in this thread, so this will be my last post. @Ironhold can speak for himself, but I imagine he is in reference to this:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

If you want *my* opinion on what that means, you'll have to open a thread and point it at "Agnostics Who Like the Bible" ;-)

 

[Alithis]

Whenever angelic announcements were made here on earth Gabriel was most often the angel of choice. In Islam Gabriel is the Angel who relayed the Qur'an to Muhammad from God. So, if such doctrine is true, at least it came from Gabriel, an angel known to give such tidings.

But who is this Moroni? No such name as Moroni in scripture. According to Latter Day Saint belief, the golden plates are the source from which Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon, a sacred text of the faith. Some witnesses described the plates as weighing 50 pounds, golden in color, and being composed of thin metallic pages engraved on both sides and bound with three D-shaped rings.

Smith said he found the plates at a hill near his home in Manchester, New York, after the angel Moroni directed him to a buried stone box. Smith said the angel prevented him from taking the plates, but instructed him to return to the same location. Though he allowed others to heft the box, he said that the angel had forbidden him to show the plates to anyone until they had been translated from their original "reformed Egyptian" language. Smith dictated the text of the Book of Mormon, claiming that it was a translation of the plates. He did this by using a seer stone, which he placed in the bottom of a hat and then placed the hat over his face to view the words written within the stone. Smith published the translation in 1830 as the Book of Mormon (bits and pieced from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates) .

If these plates were in Manchestor NY, I would think that someone would have found them by now.

So this so called book of Mormon was translated from the original "reformed Egyptian" language, which much of the text looks like it was copied from the KJV of the bible. And I would imagine such revelation coming from the Jew, or at least a son of Shem, as the scripture says...

1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. - Romans 3:1-3

The Apostle Paul had trouble with people manipulating the scripture in error. At one time he declared...

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1

And the Apostle Peter, taking up with Paul, said that...

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. - 2 Peter 3

I personally believe that the Book of Mormon is, as the Apostle Peter says, a product of the unlearned and unstable, which they wrest, as they do with other scriptures, unto their own destruction. And I personally believe that the angel Moroni is, as the Apostle Paul said, an accursed angel as he brought another gospel which was not handed down through the Apostles.

Is Moroni a fallen demonic angel?-yes
re -the plates .. he lied .

 

[StFrancis]

We can be quite sure that Joseph Smith was very creative in incorporating quotes from various sources, and therefore, the Angel Moroni may just be part of his creative mind.
What evidence?

In the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 19:1 reads:

Nevertheless, the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun, and the land of Naphtali, and afterwards did more grievously afflict by the way of the Red Sea beyond Jordan in Galilee of the nations.

This verse is a quotation of Isaiah 9:1, which reads in the latest KJV as follows:

Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.

Why would Joseph Smith insert the 'Red Sea' instead of just 'the sea'?
Because there was an error in the 1769 KJV version that he was copying from which included the words 'Red Sea'.


How do we know that 'Red Sea' is an error?

During the Kingdom Age (about 1000 BC and onwards), the land of Naphtali bordered the Sea of Galilee to the West. The land of Zabulun bordered Naphtali to the West and South. It is within this region that we find many names from Jesus' ministry - Capernaum, Cana, Genneserat, Bethsaida and, of couse, Galilee. The quotation from Isaiah thus neatly pinpoints the area of the Messiah's future ministry.

The Red Sea, however, is over 250 miles to the South of Galilee, near the Egyptian border. There is no way that Isaiah could at any stage have contained the geographical qualifier "Red".

There is further proof of this assertion. Firstly, the quotation also mentions that "the sea" is beyond Jordan, in Galilee. The Jordan River, of course, empties into the Dead Sea, and never reaches the Red Sea at all. Further, the Red Sea is definitely nowhere near Galilee.

Secondly, this verse from Isaiah was quoted by Matthew in Matthew 4:12-16, specifically with reference to Galilee and Capernaum. The quotation in Matthew is also missing the reference to the Red Sea.

 

[Super14LDS]

We can be quite sure that Joseph Smith was very creative in incorporating quotes from various sources, and therefore, the Angel Moroni may just be part of his creative mind.
What evidence?

In the Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 19:1 reads:

Nevertheless, the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun, and the land of Naphtali, and afterwards did more grievously afflict by the way of the Red Sea beyond Jordan in Galilee of the nations.

This verse is a quotation of Isaiah 9:1, which reads in the latest KJV as follows:

Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.

Why would Joseph Smith insert the 'Red Sea' instead of just 'the sea'?
Because there was an error in the 1769 KJV version that he was copying from which included the words 'Red Sea'.


How do we know that 'Red Sea' is an error?

During the Kingdom Age (about 1000 BC and onwards), the land of Naphtali bordered the Sea of Galilee to the West. The land of Zabulun bordered Naphtali to the West and South. It is within this region that we find many names from Jesus' ministry - Capernaum, Cana, Genneserat, Bethsaida and, of couse, Galilee. The quotation from Isaiah thus neatly pinpoints the area of the Messiah's future ministry.

The Red Sea, however, is over 250 miles to the South of Galilee, near the Egyptian border. There is no way that Isaiah could at any stage have contained the geographical qualifier "Red".

There is further proof of this assertion. Firstly, the quotation also mentions that "the sea" is beyond Jordan, in Galilee. The Jordan River, of course, empties into the Dead Sea, and never reaches the Red Sea at all. Further, the Red Sea is definitely nowhere near Galilee.

Secondly, this verse from Isaiah was quoted by Matthew in Matthew 4:12-16, specifically with reference to Galilee and Capernaum. The quotation in Matthew is also missing the reference to the Red Sea.

Interesting.

 

[.Mikha'el.]

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[Alithis]

Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed.

to comply with this when thegroup in question is a known cult and has NEVER been in fellowship with the lord Jesus would be forcing me to deny him.i wouldcertainly give up cf before i did that.

In the name of Jesus ..the word of God made flesh .In the authority if His name above all names given in heaven and on earth. Far above the authority of CF.I state catagoricly that those adering to the mormon doctrines are NOT CHristians.are not saved ,are not born again and do not have the spirit of christ Jesus.
They must repent .

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The subject was the book, not Joseph himself. Cities and cultures, not individuals.
Prophets need to meet other requirements that the bible mentions, but that is not what was being talked about right now. Though the topic is Moroni--an angel.



It would be far more helpful if you would list the errors and correct them, with the proof for the corrections.

2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

I think in the case Islam and Later Day saints, book founders saw an angel of light masquerade by evil spirits, demons.

 

[MJFlores]

Checked out who Moroni is Angel Moroni - Wikipedia

And the video at YouTube about the book of Mormon

Now are they scriptural or bible based?

Angel Moroni who has the golden plates where the Book of Mormon is based what does the bible say?

Galatians 1:8 New International Version (NIV)

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

I think this fits in like a glove, don't you think?


2 Corinthians 11:4 New International Version (NIV)

For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Did Paul and the apostles mentioned another testament of Jesus Christ?
Did they know about this stuff - the golden tablets?

Galatians 1:6-9 New International Version (NIV)

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Did the 1st century Church of Christ in Galatia know "Another Testament of Jesus Christ?"

 

[Jane_Doe]

Checked out who Moroni is Angel Moroni - Wikipedia

And the video at YouTube about the book of Mormon

Now are they scriptural or bible based?

Angel Moroni who has the golden plates where the Book of Mormon is based what does the bible say?

Galatians 1:8 New International Version (NIV)

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

I think this fits in like a glove, don't you think?


2 Corinthians 11:4 New International Version (NIV)

For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Did Paul and the apostles mentioned another testament of Jesus Christ?
Did they know about this stuff - the golden tablets?
View attachment 193374

Galatians 1:6-9 New International Version (NIV)

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Did the 1st century Church of Christ in Galatia know "Another Testament of Jesus Christ?"

Hi MJFlores,

I would recommend that you examine scripture thoroughly. Galatians 1:9 does not say "run away from all angels cause they're evil!" But rather it urges us to examine the message being delivered, and not just make a decision based on who the messenger is. This discernment is something you're going to have to do for yourself, and have God reveal the answer to you Himself, not relaying on what some person/YouTube video tells you (Galatians 1:12). Only when you open your ears to hear can God reveal the Truth to you.

 

[MJFlores]

Hi MJFlores,

I would recommend that you examine scripture thoroughly. Galatians 1:9 does not say "run away from all angels cause they're evil!" But rather it urges us to examine the message being delivered, and not just make a decision based on who the messenger is. This discernment is something you're going to have to do for yourself, and have God reveal the answer to you Himself, not relaying on what some person/YouTube video tells you (Galatians 1:12). Only when you open your ears to hear can God reveal the Truth to you.

I used to have a copy of the Book of Mormon
Lost it somewhere
@Jane_Doe when I see your people from Utah
What amazes me is they know how to speak Tagalog
Sometimes it stuns me
There are many of the Latter Day Saints doctrines that are quite perplexing.

When you run in conflict with the bible vs the book of Mormon
What then should prevail?