Is mathematics anti-God?

[thekawasakikid]

Mathematics is not physical. Mathematics did not evolve from something primitave.

Atheism is not physical. Atheism did not evolve from something primitave (sic). Therefore, atheism is not anti-God?

 

[Buck72]

How is that even a real question?


The answer is, of course, a resounding and obvious NO. God INVENTED the vehicles of creative design to include physics, matter, and of course, mathmatics.

The Bible is extremely mathmatical, more so than any of us even realize. The Bible holds an immense amount of technical data to reward the diligent student.

The Bible is the infallible, inerrant word of God.

 

[Buck72]

IF you believe that 2+2=4, then you are an atheist, even if you won't admit it. YOu must say 2+2+God's will = 4 in order to be a True Christian.

You lost me here bro - where's this from?

 

[seebs]

You lost me here bro - where's this from?

It must come from the way some people say that, if you say that life follows certain rules, it makes you an atheist, but if you say that life plus God's will follows rules, that's okay.

 

[Ark Guy]

seebs posted the following:
It doesn't contradict scripture; it contradicts your interpretation of scripture. Unless you're God, that's no big deal. People are wrong all the time.

I don't know...the bible is pretty clear that Eve was made from Adams side. The interpretation comes in when you try to figure out if God used Adams rib or not.

Other than that the bible is quite clear...no evolution. Or maybe you can show me where it claims God used evolution.

 

[seebs]

I don't know...the bible is pretty clear that Eve was made from Adams side. The interpretation comes in when you try to figure out if God used Adams rib or not.

Deciding to take a story as literal history is also a kind of interpretation.

Other than that the bible is quite clear...no evolution. Or maybe you can show me where it claims God used evolution.

The Bible never once says that anything is made from protons, neutrons, and electrons. It does not refer to the earth moving around the sun, and indeed, it clearly indicates that the earth is fixed in place, and the sun moves around it. The Bible refers to four-legged flying creatures. The Bible says that rabbits chew their cud.

The Bible is not a science textbook. Things may be true, without being found in the Bible.

 

[Ark Guy]

seebs posted the following
he Bible never once says that anything is made from protons, neutrons, and electrons. It does not refer to the earth moving around the sun, and indeed, it clearly indicates that the earth is fixed in place, and the sun moves around it. The Bible refers to four-legged flying creatures. The Bible says that rabbits chew their cud.

The Bible is not a science textbook. Things may be true, without being found in the Bible.

What you keep failing to realize is that the bible does indeed talk about creation. The account is contained between the covers of the bible. In a sense this particular peice of science is covered in the bible. It doesn't mention protons, neutrons, and electrons.

As far as the earth goes, it can't be moved. Rabbits do chew what their stomachs processed..they just chew their cud slightly differently.

And four legged flying creatures? where?

And the Sun revolving around the earth? Just where does it say this?

The strawman arguments are flying now.

 

[seebs]

What you keep failing to realize is that the bible does indeed talk about creation. The account is contained between the covers of the bible. In a sense this particular peice of science is covered in the bible. It doesn't mention protons, neutrons, and electrons.

The Bible talks about things being "made". It just doesn't say exactly how. Sometimes, it talks about how.

As far as the earth goes, it can't be moved. Rabbits do chew what their stomachs processed..they just chew their cud slightly differently.

It's not cud.

And four legged flying creatures? where?[/qquote]

In the Bible. Leviticus 11.

20
All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination
unto you.
21
Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon
all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the
earth;
22
Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald
locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the
grasshopper after his kind.
23
But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be
an abomination unto you.

Locusts. Four feet? Yes or no.

Can you name any "flying creeping things, which have four feet"?

And the Sun revolving around the earth? Just where does it say this?

1 Chronicles 16:30: " Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.

Psalm 93:1 "The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:10: Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously...."

Psalm 104:5: " Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever."

Ecclesiastes 1, 5:"The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose."

Psalm 19:4-6 Their line [the heavens] is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof."

Joshua 10:12-13: "Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

The strawman arguments are flying now.

If I can provide the verses, will you retract this insulting comment?

I would suggest that you should read up on the history of geocentrism. Many devout Christians came to believe that the sun moved around the earth based on the Biblical account. (Consider also that the moon is described in Genesis as a "light". Do you agree that it is a light, or do you accept the common scientific theory that it merely reflects the sun's light?)

 

[Buck72]

Deciding to take a story as literal history is also a kind of interpretation.

Not taking it literally requires GREATER interpretation and reduces what was written to be an absolute standard of truth to a smorgasboard of doctrine whereby men can pick and choose the parts they like and pass up the rest, or even discard the whole deal. Non-literalism is more of a linguistical circus than any simple literalistic study of the Bible.

I used to wonder where the hundreds of denominations within the Body of Christ came from, they rarely agree on anything, and I'm talking MAJOR tenants of the faith: virgin birth, diety of Christ, depravity of man, etc.

The Bible never once says that anything is made from protons, neutrons, and electrons. It does not refer to the earth moving around the sun, and indeed, it clearly indicates that the earth is fixed in place, and the sun moves around it. The Bible refers to four-legged flying creatures. The Bible says that rabbits chew their cud.

The sun shines in through my front windows in the morning and shines through the back windows of my house in the late afternoon. From my point of reference, the sun is moving, not my house or the ground beneath it. Four-legged flying creatures? I'll check that out if you tell me where it is. And rabbits chew and chew all day long...they eat their poop.

The Bible is not a science textbook. Things may be true, without being found in the Bible.

The Bible never claims ANYWHERE to have universal explanation to every spec within, of, and throughout the creation. The Bible never mentiones VCR's, why then is that an argument against what it DOES claim to be true?

 

[seebs]

Not taking it literally requires GREATER interpretation and reduces what was written to be an absolute standard of truth to a smorgasboard of doctrine whereby men can pick and choose the parts they like and pass up the rest, or even discard the whole deal. Non-literalism is more of a linguistical circus than any simple literalistic study of the Bible.

And yet, if literalism is ever false, then it's our only option.

God didn't promise to make the study part of this easy.

I used to wonder where the hundreds of denominations within the Body of Christ came from, they rarely agree on anything, and I'm talking MAJOR tenants of the faith: virgin birth, diety of Christ, depravity of man, etc.

Yeah. Wacky stuff, like denying the Real Presence in the Eucharist, or the importance of apostolic succession, too.

The Bible never claims ANYWHERE to have universal explanation to every spec within, of, and throughout the creation. The Bible never mentiones VCR's, why then is that an argument against what it DOES claim to be true?

Because the Bible's coverage of creation is very brief, and structured like a myth, and the question of exactly how life works is really not the sort of question I would expect the Bible to answer. That suggests that the details of physical processes should in general be considered "something the Bible doesn't really cover".

 

[Ark Guy]

The locust as measured by todays science have six legs.
But if you watch them they only use four of them to walk around.

The earth can't be moved.
It is 3rd from the sun and will stay there untill God decides to move it.
...or will you insist that this moving means spinning on it's axis?

 

[Ark Guy]

Concerning the sun revolving around the earth. This is not what the bible is claiming. It is what you are forcing the bible to claim.
Im my back yard, from my vantage point the sun does indeed rise. I can even measure it. Heck, even the weather man says the sun rises.

In support of your false theory of evolution you are required to shake apart the bible, discredit it....yet other portions, such as a guy rising up on the third day you seem to accept. Kinda weird hermenuitics if you ask me.

 

[Bushido216]

Right, which is why people swore up and down that the earth was immobile and used the Bible to back that claim up?

 

[Bushido216]

Not taking it literally requires GREATER interpretation and reduces what was written to be an absolute standard of truth to a smorgasboard of doctrine whereby men can pick and choose the parts they like and pass up the rest, or even discard the whole deal. Non-literalism is more of a linguistical circus than any simple literalistic study of the Bible.

Unfortunately, we don't have the literal option left to us anymore. Either we realize that it isn't a literal history book or we turn into those Bible hating people you love to call us.

 

[Ark Guy]

Right, which is why people swore up and down that the earth was immobile and used the Bible to back that claim up?

And the earth is immobile...just like the bible says. Your point?

 

[seebs]

The locust as measured by todays science have six legs.
But if you watch them they only use four of them to walk around.

Cite?

The earth can't be moved.
It is 3rd from the sun and will stay there untill God decides to move it.
...or will you insist that this moving means spinning on it's axis?

Friend, this is not an argument that does you any credit. You know, as well as I do, that for thousands of years, many people understood this verse to mean that the sun moved around the earth. You presumably know about Galileo.

We know that most readers understood these passages to mean that the earth was fixed in space, unmoving, with the sun moving around it once a day.

When heliocentrism was proposed, these people were angry and afraid, because if the Bible were found to be wrong, it would destroy everything.

Now, we know better. We know that the language used there describes things as the viewers experience them, not as they actually happen.

 

[ThePhoenix]

And the earth is immobile...just like the bible says. Your point?

Did you really just write that?

 

[Ark Guy]

ABSOLUTLY.

The earth is fixed #3 from the sun.
The distance from the sun is also fixed to provide us the right environment.

As I said, the earth is immoble. Your not going to knock it out of orbit.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The last post speaks for itself. This is how far one has to go to support the literality of Scripture.

And I've watched locusts. They use all six to walk around. Which pair do you think they don't use?

 

[healing_aura]

I don't think mathematics is anti-God at all. It's just our attempt at understanding something that God has created.

English isn't anti-God, as it's just our method of communicating.

Sure, we could say, "By God's will, acceleration due to gravity is 9.81m/s", because he made it so.

He made the world, now we try to understand it (Although we never will, as he's a superior being).