Is masturbation REALLY a sin?

[Zebra1552]

Could you point me to where in the bible the definition of lust is provided?

Exodus 20:17, Matthew 5:28. You look at the Greek word in Matthew, then you look at the word used for lust in the Hebrew, and then you look at the English translations. In the OT, the equivalent word is 'covet', and in the NT it is 'lust'.

http://students.eng.fiu.edu/~denver/pdfs/Masturbation.pdf

There's a nice article to explain the connection between the two.

 

[bored]

Accusations without evidence get you nowhere with me. If that's 'tone', then you may want to read the forum rules:



You see, I'm not the only one who thinks evidence is important. The moderators do too. I've stated my position, I've given evidence for my position, and all you've done is labeled that position as unbiblical and vague without any supporting evidence. If you expect me to listen to your position, then you can provide evidence for it. I'm not going to believe you just because you say something, that's not how discussion works.

If you want to have a discussion without evidence or without someone disagreeing with you, go someplace else, because here in EM we state our positions and give evidence for them, even if we do disagree.

Im simply saying your are rude and brash is all. I simply said that I would agree to disagree and call it a day, besides all you did was provide one scripture from gensis which had no relavance to the discussion in my opinion. Your the one who chose to get nasty, im not asking you to agree with me, all I said is I agree to disagree because I think the "evidence" that you provided was not relavent and im not going to provide counter arguments with evidence to someone who is brash, arrogant and rude.

I agree with the premis of the forum rule you posted, however I dont want to engage with you because of the extreme rudeness.

You will now go on ignore becuase you continue to dig yoruself a hole.

 

[andrewroxsox]

well i do it sometimes.. i had a pastor tell me one time, as long as you aren't thinking of anything when you do it then its fine. just like, if your not thinking about anyone or doing something to someone then its fine. if you can just lay there and do it and be done then its alright, and to me it helps with urges that every virgin man has, or any virgin in general. when i do it and do it sinlessly, i feel no guilt, or farther away from God, so it seems to be okay. when in doubt pray.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

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[ClassicMovieLover]

I have delt and am sort of still dealing with sexual addiction and yes I dont care what anyone says masturbation is a SIN there is no way of getting around that. It is what it is.

 

[BrianOnEarth]

They said to have sex with someone else when not married is a sin, but to have sex with yourself (essentially) is acceptable.

Whats your opinion?

If masturbation was a sin then God would have made our arms shorter.

 

[Paine]

If masturbation was a sin then God would have made our arms shorter.

This would not stop us.

 

[Zebra1552]

I have delt and am sort of still dealing with sexual addiction and yes I dont care what anyone says masturbation is a SIN there is no way of getting around that. It is what it is.

Just because it's something you struggle with doesn't mean that it's a sin for everyone. What you claim does not follow logically.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Marriage is in the Bible all the time, and sex before marriage is viewed as a sin. It's in the Bible.

I think the question other's were posting is: What is marriage?

Your opinion was stated:

Marriage is a contract that two people make to each other, a commitment that is usually recognized by the state to have certain benefits. I dunno what country you live in, but what constitutes a marriage isn't exactly a big debate except among those trying to justify sex before marriage- and then it's not a debate, it's an excuse.

This is your opinion of what marriage is. But some may disagree with you and that doesn't automatically make them wrong nor does it mean they are ignoring you. For example, does marriage HAVE to be a written, state-ordered contract?

What if a couple who is deeply in love and in a serious, long-term relationship go into their room, sit down and say, "Do you want to make a spiritual commitment to God for the rest of our lives to stay together in sickness and in health, to become one flesh right here, right now." They both agree, pray to God and then they have sex. Are they married or not?

As to the original question. I think masturbation and lust are hard to separate. If physically pleasuring yourself gives you some fulfillment that God and/or your current/future wife should be giving you then I'd say its wrong. Let God fill you up, not a weak [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

 

[Zebra1552]

I think the question other's were posting is: What is marriage?

Your opinion was stated:



This is your opinion of what marriage is. But some may disagree with you and that doesn't automatically make them wrong nor does it mean they are ignoring you. For example, does marriage HAVE to be a written, state-ordered contract?

This thread is talking about things from a Christian pov. As such, marriage has nothing to do with the state, it has to do with a ritual that is performed to unify two people before man and before God.

What if a couple who is deeply in love and in a serious, long-term relationship go into their room, sit down and say, "Do you want to make a spiritual commitment to God for the rest of our lives to stay together in sickness and in health, to become one flesh right here, right now." They both agree, pray to God and then they have sex. Are they married or not?

No, they are not. They did not seek spiritual advice about it, and they did not get married. There were no witnesses, and no real commitment, it was a spur of the moment decision to gratify the flesh. No church or state would recognize it as marriage. Furthermore, you imply that these hypothetical people are already living together, and that has the appearance of sin to most Christians and should never be done. Plus, it places far too much temptation in the relationship especially for the guy and that is also not right.

As to the original question. I think masturbation and lust are hard to separate.

Then perhaps you can address this:

Exodus 20:17, Matthew 5:28. You look at the Greek word in Matthew, then you look at the word used for lust in the Hebrew, and then you look at the English translations. In the OT, the equivalent word is 'covet', and in the NT it is 'lust'.

http://students.eng.fiu.edu/~denver/pdfs/Masturbation.pdf

There's a nice article to explain the connection between the two.

If physically pleasuring yourself gives you some fulfillment that God and/or your current/future wife should be giving you then I'd say its wrong.Let God fill you up, not a weak [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

So where in the Bible does it say that sex is meant to fill something only God or a wife can? [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] aren't meant to fill anyone up the way God does. If anyone is, it's idolatry, not lust, and masturbation isn't the issue, but the attitude behind it of putting something before God in priority.

 

[SpiritualAntiseptic]

Sixty years ago, when I was in Catholic school, masturbation was not only a sin, but a mortal sin, that would send you to hell if you died with the sin unconfessed. As a matter of fact, entertaining any sexual thought at all, if you were not married, was also a mortal sin, and sometimes even if you were married.

Eating meat on Friday was also a mortal sin then, but I have heard that that has since changed.

I have always wanted to ask a Catholic if those who went to hell for eating meat on Friday were released from hell when the rules changed.

Catholics are required to do penance on Fridays in the Latin Church, to not do so is a grave (mortal) matter. Prior to Vatican II this was done by abstaining from meat. After Vatican II one could substitute abstaining from meat for another form of penance. The issue wasn't over meat, it was over doing penance.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

marriage has nothing to do with the state

State doesn't have to recognize it. Gotcha.

No church or state would recognize it as marriage.

State has to recognize it. Gotcha.

It has to do with a ritual that is performed to unify two people before man and before God.

Do you have a Biblical quote for that?

They did not seek spiritual advice about it, and they did not get married

Must you seek spiritual advice? Isn't prayer enough? I specifically said they prayed about it.

There were no witnesses

Do they need witnesses? Got any biblical support?

no real commitment, it was a spur of the moment decision to gratify the flesh

Woah woah, who are you to judge that? They may have been completely sincere and end up spending the rest of their lives in a successful, loving union.

Furthermore, you imply that these hypothetical people are already living together, and that has the appearance of sin to most Christians and should never be done

Sorry. I thought just saying "their" was easier than saying, "and then they went to the one significant other's room which was not located in the same house because they were not living together." Semantics.

So where in the Bible does it say that sex is meant to fill something only God or a wife can? [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] aren't meant to fill anyone up the way God does. If anyone is, it's idolatry, not lust, and masturbation isn't the issue, but the attitude behind it of putting something before God in priority.

I have no biblical evidence for this. I am sorry. It is simply my own opinion. Perhaps I could find a biblical quote that would suit this claim but that would involve a long and difficult search so it will suffice to say that is simply my own personal opinion with no concrete biblical backing.

 

[holyorders]

Sixty years ago, when I was in Catholic school, masturbation was not only a sin, but a mortal sin, that would send you to hell if you died with the sin unconfessed. As a matter of fact, entertaining any sexual thought at all, if you were not married, was also a mortal sin, and sometimes even if you were married.

Eating meat on Friday was also a mortal sin then, but I have heard that that has since changed.

I have always wanted to ask a Catholic if those who went to hell for eating meat on Friday were released from hell when the rules changed.

Not eating meat on friday is still going on and it is a discipline not a matter of sin. Eating meat on friday (with the intention) is venial sin which degrades charity.

 

[Zebra1552]

State doesn't have to recognize it. Gotcha.



State has to recognize it. Gotcha.

Don't put words in my mouth. I stated that both the church and the state would not recognize what you described as a marriage. That doesn't mean they have to recognize it, it means it's not a marriage. You asked me if it was a marriage, I answered you and gave you a reason for that answer. If it's not recognized by any Christian authority, then it's certainly not going to be considered such by the state, and it's definitely not going to be recognized by me or anyone else but them as a marriage and as such doesn't constitute a marriage. It has nothing to do with state recognition, it's simple logic.

Do you have a Biblical quote for that?

Do you have one for yours?

Must you seek spiritual advice? Isn't prayer enough? I specifically said they prayed about it.

So what? I can pray about something and do it anyway too.

Do they need witnesses? Got any biblical support?

You have none for yours. I have quotes from all over the Bible, if you care to search for the word marriage. Not once will you ever see it performed in secret the way you describe, and I daresay that if anyone had they would have been in deep trouble for it. Do you know what the culture WAS back then? People didn't just go off and have sex to get married, that was still considered fornication.

Woah woah, who are you to judge that? They may have been completely sincere and end up spending the rest of their lives in a successful, loving union.

Who am I to judge that? A thinking human being. What they did was fornication, agreement or no agreement, because it was not recognized before at least the church. Christian marriage is never something done in secret.

Sorry. I thought just saying "their" was easier than saying, "and then they went to the one significant other's room which was not located in the same house because they were not living together." Semantics.

It's hardly semantics. Their room implies that more than one person is in possession of that room no matter how you slice it.

I have no biblical evidence for this. I am sorry. It is simply my own opinion. Perhaps I could find a biblical quote that would suit this claim but that would involve a long and difficult search so it will suffice to say that is simply my own personal opinion with no concrete biblical backing.

Then your position, having no backing, is severely flawed both logically and biblically because I gave you an entire article that argues from the Bible what lust actually is.

 

[Zebra1552]

If you want biblical support, all you have to do is search the word marriage or a related term in any online Bible tool.

Christian Marriage - What Does the Bible Say About Christian Marriage?

Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search

Marriage Bible Verses

It's not that hard to find marriage in the Bible. It's general knowledge. I shouldn't HAVE to post this stuff. You, being a Christian, should already be familiar with your holy book and what it says.

 

[bored]

If you want biblical support, all you have to do is search the word marriage or a related term in any online Bible tool.

Christian Marriage - What Does the Bible Say About Christian Marriage?

Bible Resources, Online Bible, Read the Bible, Search the Bible, Bible Study Plan, Passage Search, Keyword Search

Marriage Bible Verses

It's not that hard to find marriage in the Bible. It's general knowledge. I shouldn't HAVE to post this stuff. You, being a Christian, should already be familiar with your holy book and what it says.

That is true the word marriage appears in the bible quite a bit and what all the implications are of being married, it is however silent on what steps are required to actually become married and that is what we are talking about.

Just FYI for future dealings with people, you attract more bees with honey than vinigar.

 

[painloc21]

That is true the word marriage appears in the bible quite a bit and what all the implications are of being married, it is however silent on what steps are required to actually become married and that is what we are talking about.

Just FYI for future dealings with people, you attract more bees with honey than vinigar.

I was just researching this same question today when i came across this thread. In the state of Colorado the mother of my 3 children and myself are common law married and need to file for divorce with the state if that's what she decides she wants to do. We never were married before a judge or pastor. She belives we should not have to file for divorce and that she has not commited adultery in gods eyes. I belive in my heart but have no proof from the bible that after 12 years and 3 children we were married in gods eyes. So i am also very interested in finding out the steps the bible says are required to actually become married. As far as the masturbation is concerned i never even dreamed it was a sin until i re focused my life on god this last month. I am now researching what the bible has to say about that as well.

 

[godncountryrdead]

My whole life I have rarely heard from any specific denomination that masturbation is a sin. My dad who was catholic but then seen it was wrong and became nondenominational says Catholics usually are the ones that believe in this. I asked some other people to about this and they all said theres no mention of masturbating being a sin.

They said to have sex with someone else when not married is a sin, but to have sex with yourself (essentially) is acceptable.

Whats your opinion?

Are you REALLY that gullible?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Catholics are required to do penance on Fridays in the Latin Church, to not do so is a grave (mortal) matter. Prior to Vatican II this was done by abstaining from meat. After Vatican II one could substitute abstaining from meat for another form of penance. The issue wasn't over meat, it was over doing penance.

Penance on Fridays or Mortal Sin??? Vatican II changed this in light of changing circumstances. It is not a mortal sin to fail to do penance on Fridays.

So all here are better informed I am providing proof. Here is a link to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops from November 1966: http://www.usccb.org/lent/2007/Penance_and_Abstinence.pdf

To save you some time you can start reading at 18. At 24 it should be clear that missing penance on Friday is not a mortal sin.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Sixty years ago, when I was in Catholic school, masturbation was not only a sin, but a mortal sin, that would send you to hell if you died with the sin unconfessed. As a matter of fact, entertaining any sexual thought at all, if you were not married, was also a mortal sin, and sometimes even if you were married.

Eating meat on Friday was also a mortal sin then, but I have heard that that has since changed.

I have always wanted to ask a Catholic if those who went to hell for eating meat on Friday were released from hell when the rules changed.

First, mortal sin requires three things: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."

Secondly, lust or "entertaining any sexual thought" is a venial sin and not a mortal sin as you claim.

Thirldy, masturbation is a mortal sin when the above three conditions are present.

Next time get the real facts. Here is a link to the Vatican website and their free copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

If nothing else, maybe we all know something new and true.