-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Is Masturbation a Sin?
- Thread starter bashful
- Start date
- Status
Let me raise a new question. is it a sin to touch once you are married?
but to put in my two cents about the first question. to lust is a sin. period. if you can touch without lusting you are a better man..or woman than me!
but to put in my two cents about the first question. to lust is a sin. period. if you can touch without lusting you are a better man..or woman than me!
Upvote
0
Sascha Fitzpatrick
Well-Known Member
I don't find a problem with masturbation in marriage - unless it was being used alongside porn or something.
If I was really tired, and didn't have any energy, I'd be more than happy for my husband to touch to relieve his urge, rather than lying there unable to sleep and getting irritated at me for not joining in. If he was doing it whilst kissing me or holding me - even better! I may even join in! I'd certainly hope that if I was 'frisky' and he just wasn't awake enough to participate (or sick or something) he'd let me!
If I was away - same thing. This also bring up the issues of sexy photos of ourselves and phone sex, both of which, if kept between you too (and completely private) I have no problem with.
I guess that so long it was me he was imagining touching him, I would have no problem. If I was aware of a porn addiction, however, I would probably not be so keen for him to do it. I would hold the same guidelines to myself - I would only think about doing it, if I knew my thoughts would only be of him.
Just my opinion,
Sasch
If I was really tired, and didn't have any energy, I'd be more than happy for my husband to touch to relieve his urge, rather than lying there unable to sleep and getting irritated at me for not joining in. If he was doing it whilst kissing me or holding me - even better! I may even join in! I'd certainly hope that if I was 'frisky' and he just wasn't awake enough to participate (or sick or something) he'd let me!
If I was away - same thing. This also bring up the issues of sexy photos of ourselves and phone sex, both of which, if kept between you too (and completely private) I have no problem with.
I guess that so long it was me he was imagining touching him, I would have no problem. If I was aware of a porn addiction, however, I would probably not be so keen for him to do it. I would hold the same guidelines to myself - I would only think about doing it, if I knew my thoughts would only be of him.
Just my opinion,
Sasch
Upvote
0
I don't believe that child-bearing is the only reason that God created sex. It was created for a husband and wife to enjoy, not just to procreate. It's a gift from God that we (as humans/sinners) abuse outside of marriage. But when it is used inside of God's desired plan, it is a very good thing. We are joined in union with that person and we meet their needs in a way that no one else can and should meet. But those needs inside of marriage do go beyond child-bearing.Monica02 said:
Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
Upvote
0
Brian Daniel
Regular Member
Is it a sin for a woman to have sex within marriage after she's had a hysterectomy?Monica02 said:
Upvote
0
Sascha Fitzpatrick
Well-Known Member
Monica,
Just a query, I don't want to lambast you cos of your opinion - it is yours, and if you live by it, then well done for you.
I just have a query when it comes to foreplay - cos the definition of foreplay is similar to masturbation - it's just masturbating someone other than yourself. Do you also believe that to be wrong, ie, when you just have sex for pleasure, rather than to create a child? Just I've found most women are more prone to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] during foreplay than they are in full intercourse - at least until they've had sex for quite a long while and worked out what in intercourse actually 'works' for them (when it comes to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]).
I'm not saying sex should always be just for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] only, and I personally don't believe we should relegate it for only procreation purposes, although both reasons are valid biblically. I think it should be a mix of both - and most girls admit that sex is far more pleasurable after [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] has occurred - there is a lot less chance of discomfort for them.
Just wondering how you put Song of Songs into your belief - a lot of that has very STRONG hints to foreplay (masturbation), especially when translated back into the original text.
Sasch
Just a query, I don't want to lambast you cos of your opinion - it is yours, and if you live by it, then well done for you.
I just have a query when it comes to foreplay - cos the definition of foreplay is similar to masturbation - it's just masturbating someone other than yourself. Do you also believe that to be wrong, ie, when you just have sex for pleasure, rather than to create a child? Just I've found most women are more prone to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] during foreplay than they are in full intercourse - at least until they've had sex for quite a long while and worked out what in intercourse actually 'works' for them (when it comes to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]).
I'm not saying sex should always be just for [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] only, and I personally don't believe we should relegate it for only procreation purposes, although both reasons are valid biblically. I think it should be a mix of both - and most girls admit that sex is far more pleasurable after [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] has occurred - there is a lot less chance of discomfort for them.
Just wondering how you put Song of Songs into your belief - a lot of that has very STRONG hints to foreplay (masturbation), especially when translated back into the original text.
Sasch
Upvote
0
No, it is not a sin to have relations after a hysterectomy because the purpose of the hysterectomy was not for birth control purposes. Sterilization is a sin. Before you ask ( and any logical person should) relations after the change of life is also not a sin because it was of God's hand and not yours. I am not an expert on this so if you want a better explaination you shoud look up some Catholic documents on the subject. Just make sure they are real (from the Vatican) and not some nonsense from some liberal "expert".
Sex is and should be pleasurable but it needs to be open to the possibility of pregnancy. Humanae Vitae is the encyclical on artificial contraception and I am sure there are many more on sexuality and related issues. These will offer much better thoughts than I can. I also am no Bible expert but my understanding is that the Song of Songs can be viewed as the love of God or the Church. I am sure the Church has written something on the subject. My earlier post was not my opinion but the teaching of the Church.
Sex is and should be pleasurable but it needs to be open to the possibility of pregnancy. Humanae Vitae is the encyclical on artificial contraception and I am sure there are many more on sexuality and related issues. These will offer much better thoughts than I can. I also am no Bible expert but my understanding is that the Song of Songs can be viewed as the love of God or the Church. I am sure the Church has written something on the subject. My earlier post was not my opinion but the teaching of the Church.
Upvote
0
Monica, as important as church is, I form my beliefs on marital sex based on God's Word. I know that we are supposed to enjoy our spouse and I see no where that it mentions a sin of birth control, or having sex on non-ovulating days, or anything of the sort. I'm not trying to attack you or your beliefs, I'm just trying to encourage you to seek God's will and His Word to form our beliefs. It's important to defend your convictions, but we should also seek to understand if these convictions are from God before we stand firm against another Christian, or non-Christian, for that matter.Monica02 said:
May we in the body of Christ build each other up, as iron sharpens iron, that we may be together with Christ when this earth passes away. Amen. God bless.
Upvote
0
Carl,
Sorry for getting off of the subject of this thread, but the birth-control issue is a pet peeve of mine.
The teaching of the Church is God's Word. No Protestant ( I use this term very broadly--ie non-Catholic or Orthodox) denomination accepted artificial birth control before the 1930's. The Anglican Church was the first to accept it's use for extreme cases. I find it very puzzling that non-Catholic churches take such a cavalier attitude towards something so sacred as the creation of life.
I am assuming that you consider the Holy Bible to contain the complete teaching of the Church so I will tell you that somewhere in the O.T. there is a reference to the condemnation of "...spilling the sperm...", or something like that. Perhaps someone on the forum can find it in the Bible. Also if you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the encyclical Humanae Vitae, you will find biblical references.
I encourage you to look at the whole picture and try to see the effects of the connection between the seperation of sex and procreation. One obvious one is the abortofacient effect of many birth control methods. The IUD method causes a very early abortion 100% of the time. The pill can cause an abortion if the two main mechanisms fail. This information is apparently on the back of the box. As a matter of fact I think most non-barrier methods are abortofacients. Also, people seem more willing to accept surgical and chemical abortions because their birth control failed. Indeed, the birth control pill became readily available in the 60's and how long was it before abortion was legalized and touted as a good thing for society and women?
Respect for women seems to have decreased since the widespread use of birth control. Divorce rates hve skyrocketed. Homosexuality (which is a type of birth control) is increasingly seen as normal. Lets not forget IVF, embryonic stem cell research and cloning.
I implore everybody to read Humanae Vitae. The paragraph on the possibility of governments forcing their people to control their childbearing is eerie and prophetic. This document was written in the late 60's. When did China enact it's brutal one child policy? How many people with large families are scorned for not being responsible in this country? How many people now view children as a negative instead of a blessing?
I have heard countless stories of doctors suggesting abortion or sterilization because they are too lazy to treat whatever condition a woman might have.
READ HUMANAE VITAE. The connection between artificial birth control and many of societies ills is worth looking into.
I certainly am not suggesting that you, personally, hold these sad views but many if not most do and that is why it is something you should look into.
Sorry for getting off of the subject of this thread, but the birth-control issue is a pet peeve of mine.
The teaching of the Church is God's Word. No Protestant ( I use this term very broadly--ie non-Catholic or Orthodox) denomination accepted artificial birth control before the 1930's. The Anglican Church was the first to accept it's use for extreme cases. I find it very puzzling that non-Catholic churches take such a cavalier attitude towards something so sacred as the creation of life.
I am assuming that you consider the Holy Bible to contain the complete teaching of the Church so I will tell you that somewhere in the O.T. there is a reference to the condemnation of "...spilling the sperm...", or something like that. Perhaps someone on the forum can find it in the Bible. Also if you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and the encyclical Humanae Vitae, you will find biblical references.
I encourage you to look at the whole picture and try to see the effects of the connection between the seperation of sex and procreation. One obvious one is the abortofacient effect of many birth control methods. The IUD method causes a very early abortion 100% of the time. The pill can cause an abortion if the two main mechanisms fail. This information is apparently on the back of the box. As a matter of fact I think most non-barrier methods are abortofacients. Also, people seem more willing to accept surgical and chemical abortions because their birth control failed. Indeed, the birth control pill became readily available in the 60's and how long was it before abortion was legalized and touted as a good thing for society and women?
Respect for women seems to have decreased since the widespread use of birth control. Divorce rates hve skyrocketed. Homosexuality (which is a type of birth control) is increasingly seen as normal. Lets not forget IVF, embryonic stem cell research and cloning.
I implore everybody to read Humanae Vitae. The paragraph on the possibility of governments forcing their people to control their childbearing is eerie and prophetic. This document was written in the late 60's. When did China enact it's brutal one child policy? How many people with large families are scorned for not being responsible in this country? How many people now view children as a negative instead of a blessing?
I have heard countless stories of doctors suggesting abortion or sterilization because they are too lazy to treat whatever condition a woman might have.
READ HUMANAE VITAE. The connection between artificial birth control and many of societies ills is worth looking into.
I certainly am not suggesting that you, personally, hold these sad views but many if not most do and that is why it is something you should look into.
Upvote
0
Monica,Monica02 said:
Thanks for expanding the explanation of your view.
I don't necessarily believe the Bible to contain the complete teaching of every church or denomination. The fact is, churches differ on a lot of matters. The church can be looked to in times of help and to answer questions, but as far as my convictions are concerned, they come straight from God's Word and His Spirit. I cannot believe everything I hear in a church, I am commanded by God to check the facts with God and His Word. While I strongly believe in the church, it would be rather foolish of me to say that a specific denomination and their beliefs are the correct path that God has for me. I am more concerned with the church backing up their beliefs in the Bible, than vice versa.
As far as the "spilling of the sperm", my understanding of that is the sin involved the younger brother not wanting to carry on his older brothers name by bearing a child to carry on his name. He wanted his own children, not his brother's, arousing God's anger over his selfishness. I hope that I am not misinterrpreting Scripture, but that's how I understood it.
I did read up on the Humanae Vitae and I honestly didn't see what you wanted me to find. I saw nothing that convicted my of birth control, nor did I see any specific Scripture references. There were a lot of generalities without references. I'm not attacking it, but I didn't see it for myself. If you have specific references concerning the matter, I would appreciate seeing them, it would help me see your side.
I see a big difference between birth control (preventing pregnancy), and abortion (terminating a fetus' life). I do not condone willfull killings of fetus's or babies. This is Scriptural. However, I cannot find anything concerning birth control. I don't believe birth control is societies problem, I am not a strong advocate, but I am not against it used with married couples who are not ready or able to have children. Let's face it, some people shouldn't be parents. There are mentally handicapped married couples, who don't desire to bear children. There are plenty of other people who don't desire to give birth, but would rather adopt, which I think is great. Birth control hasn't decreased the respect for women, our objectivity of them has. We have made them sexual objects and many women have willingly allowed it. Both men and women are to blame for this. I would like to see you back up your claim on how this has affected the divorce rate. Also, tell me how homosexuality is a form of birth control. You can't honestly compare the two. There's a difference between sexual perversion which is clearly "an abomination to God", and birth control, where there is no Scriptural reference to.
I am also against embryonic stem cell research and cloning, but again, I don't see what that has to do with birth control.
You are right about things going downhill in the 60s. You know what it was?
Evolution.
They started to teach it in the schools. Hitler started it in Germany, it got passed in America and our children were taught that they were no more than animals. No purpose in life, it was an accident. No God, no special plan, design or purpose. We were glorified monkeys. No heaven, no hell, no punishment for sin. That's what started the decline. Look at what happened. Abortions became legal, STD's, murders, suicides, homosexuality, rape, all skyrocketed. There was no purpose in life and we didn't have anything to be accountable for. We don't even value life, which is precious to God. And since its still taught, we think its ok to create a life to experiement on their cells. Over 370 sheep were created and mutilated before they successfully cloned a single one and they want to do the same with humans. This is sad. Teaching the lie of evolution...That was our great mistake.
Thanks for your time and God bless.
Upvote
0
Carl,
Thank you for writing back. Homosexuality is a form of birth control in so much as it is sexual gratification that can never produce offspring. Of course this is a very broad definition and it is very different from what is normally considered birth control. There is a difference between SOME types of artificial birth control and abortion but, as I stated, many types are abortofacient in nature. A little known fact is that the medical community at some point (the 60's perhaps) changed the definition of pregnant from begining at fertilization to begining at implantation of the fetilized egg. This was done so doctors and pharmaceuticals could peddle the lower dose hormone pills and IUD's , which can prevent the fertilized egg from implanting. With this new definition they could "honestly" tell a couple that the birth control prevented pregnancy and did not cause abortions. I have told many people this and most were horrified and quit using the pill. Word needs to get out about this.
Evolution and birth control are similar in that both take God out of the creation process. I really never thought of that connection before. Way too many people consider themselves nothing more than an animal. Sadly I have heard from several vegans and pro-aborts that abortion is just as bad (if not worse) than killing an animal. Indeed, a turtle is more protected by our laws than an unborn child!
The truth comes out if you pose this question to one of these people:
If you were being attacked by a wild animal and a passerby had only one bullet in his gun, who would you want him to shoot?
I actually asked a pro-abort this when he brought up the stupid animal argument and boy did he get huffy.
Getting back on the subject.
Regarding divorce, I think birth control has caused couples to view sex as ONLY a pleasure and nothing else. This very much takes God out of the picture. Viewing sex this way makes moot the point of marriage. A married couple should want, expect and welcome all children God chooses to bless them with.
I do not think artificial contraception has solely caused the increased lack of respect for women but it definitly is a major player. Yes, women have allowed it too happen too. Birth control allows many men to view women (and women to view themselves and men) as NOTHING but sexual objects and not as potential parents or loving partners.
The cloning and embryonic stem cell research issue is so ralated to contraception.
Birth control has convinced people that sex and procreation are not neccessarily related. Thus cloning, which has nothing to do with sex. This goes for all the other immoral fertilization proccesses as well. Not to mention the scientific
connection. I am sure research on birth control steered research into the cloning/stem cell/IVF realm. It is all about taking God out of the picture.
I am surprised that you were not more impressed with Humanae Vitae. I thought there would be more Bible references-- I have not read it for months. I guess it is very document heavy in the reference department and I suppose a non-Catholic would not put much heed in non-biblical references. I really thought it did a great job of explaing the posistion of the Church.
God bless
Thank you for writing back. Homosexuality is a form of birth control in so much as it is sexual gratification that can never produce offspring. Of course this is a very broad definition and it is very different from what is normally considered birth control. There is a difference between SOME types of artificial birth control and abortion but, as I stated, many types are abortofacient in nature. A little known fact is that the medical community at some point (the 60's perhaps) changed the definition of pregnant from begining at fertilization to begining at implantation of the fetilized egg. This was done so doctors and pharmaceuticals could peddle the lower dose hormone pills and IUD's , which can prevent the fertilized egg from implanting. With this new definition they could "honestly" tell a couple that the birth control prevented pregnancy and did not cause abortions. I have told many people this and most were horrified and quit using the pill. Word needs to get out about this.
Evolution and birth control are similar in that both take God out of the creation process. I really never thought of that connection before. Way too many people consider themselves nothing more than an animal. Sadly I have heard from several vegans and pro-aborts that abortion is just as bad (if not worse) than killing an animal. Indeed, a turtle is more protected by our laws than an unborn child!
The truth comes out if you pose this question to one of these people:
If you were being attacked by a wild animal and a passerby had only one bullet in his gun, who would you want him to shoot?
I actually asked a pro-abort this when he brought up the stupid animal argument and boy did he get huffy.
Getting back on the subject.
Regarding divorce, I think birth control has caused couples to view sex as ONLY a pleasure and nothing else. This very much takes God out of the picture. Viewing sex this way makes moot the point of marriage. A married couple should want, expect and welcome all children God chooses to bless them with.
I do not think artificial contraception has solely caused the increased lack of respect for women but it definitly is a major player. Yes, women have allowed it too happen too. Birth control allows many men to view women (and women to view themselves and men) as NOTHING but sexual objects and not as potential parents or loving partners.
The cloning and embryonic stem cell research issue is so ralated to contraception.
Birth control has convinced people that sex and procreation are not neccessarily related. Thus cloning, which has nothing to do with sex. This goes for all the other immoral fertilization proccesses as well. Not to mention the scientific
connection. I am sure research on birth control steered research into the cloning/stem cell/IVF realm. It is all about taking God out of the picture.
I am surprised that you were not more impressed with Humanae Vitae. I thought there would be more Bible references-- I have not read it for months. I guess it is very document heavy in the reference department and I suppose a non-Catholic would not put much heed in non-biblical references. I really thought it did a great job of explaing the posistion of the Church.
God bless
Upvote
0
I agree that birth control isn't our problem. There's nothing in Scripture I can find to back that up.
I also believe you're getting in dangerous territory if you choose to touch without reservations of what God's Spirit is leading you. This is obviously a hot topic, I pray that all of you seek God for your answer.
God bless you all.
I also believe you're getting in dangerous territory if you choose to touch without reservations of what God's Spirit is leading you. This is obviously a hot topic, I pray that all of you seek God for your answer.
God bless you all.
Upvote
0
Masturbation is not a sin in the Bible, but a wonderful gift from God for all to enjoy with over 50 health benefits.
Enjoy masturbation as a wonderful gift to you from God for you to enjoy. Masturbation is clearly not a sin at all, but a wonderful gift from God to all people to enjoy, just like sex in marriage is a gift from God and they should praise God for the Joy of partner sex as well as for solo sex.
Do a Yahoo.com web search on: " masturbation is not a sin and a gift from God for all to enjoy"
also on: "christianmasturbation". This will show you many Christian pastors show masturbation is not a sin at all.
If anyone does proper research in and out side the Bible they will learn that masturbation has over 50 health benefits. The past lies have all been exposed as lies. Many false medical lies, expose as lies. Satan is the father of lies.
Lev 15:16-18 clearly would include wet dreams and masturbation and partner sex and all three clearly show that no sin offering required at all just a wash up. There are no other verse in the whole Bible that would contradict this in any way. Anti-masturbationist take many verses out of Bible culture and Bible time context. All the verses they use are taken out context and misused.
Do search on Yahoo.com "masturbation is not a sin" and another on on "christianmasturbation". These web sites will expose the lies and show how they misuse the Bible and take every Bible out of context. Most anti-masturbationist verses dont even talk about masturbation as does Lev 15:16-18 not even close.
If they condemn masturbation, to use consistent logic they also have to condemn wet dreams and sex in marriage because the same actions and lust or sexual fantasies are used in all three and would also be included in Lev 15:16-18 and it clearly is not a sin at all. anti-masturbationist misuse the Bible and use inconsistence logic and take verse after verse out of Bible culture and Bible time and Bible text context. They total ignore the Context and culture of the Bible times.
Many People who have major stress over masturbation carry this sexual hang up with them into marriage also.
lev 15:16-18 clearly show it is not a sin when many other things like a womens period require a sin offering but not masturbation or wet dreams nor sex with a partner. They these anti-masturbation want to call masturbation a sin then they will have to say that a women on her period is a sin, if they use consistence logic, but they do not.
Not one of the 40+ Bible writers nor Jesus nor anyone in all the Bible said that masturbation was a sin at all. This is a Islam teaching not a Bible teaching at all. People of the past were brainwashed by the medical lies and then force this false ideal into the Bible by take Bible verses out of context to back up the past medical lies. Its just like saying a lie you have to say more lies to back up the first lies. The lies have been exposed but the brainwashing and takeing verses out of context remains.
100 % man made guilt trip brainwashing based on past medical lies. Masturbation is a gift from God for all people to enjoy there sexuality that God gave them to enjoy. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Jn 10:10 Satan wants to kill steal destroy and Jesus give life more abundant. Satan uses lies to kill steal and destroy, Jesus said the truth will set you free. Jesus say my way is easy, the way of the wick is hard. *** 1:15 to the pure all things are pure We are pure in Christ alone. Masturbation is pure. We are under the law of love. Love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Masturbation is a fulfillment of that and in not go against the law of love in any way at all.
Anti-masturbation goes against the law of love by there condemnation, man made shame and guilt trip put on people and children, they verses after verse out of context, they use inconsistance logic, and ignore common sense and ignore Bible culture in Bible times. Like the way of the wick is hard that is what they want to put onto all people shame, guilt, condemnation all very unloving.
Do the yahoo.com search on "masturbation is not a sin but a gift from God"
and on:" christianmasturbation" and "libchrist masturbation" and look at both sides and you will conclude like many other pastors and Christian leaders have found that masturbation is not a sin at all and has many healthy benefits. Study Song of Solomon and see all the sexy talk and lusty action and they are not married in SOS and it is not evil in any way.
Is Masturbation a Sin?
The only mention of masturbation in the Bible would possibly be Lev. 15:16-18, 32-33; 22:4 and Deut. 23:10-11. It is interesting to notice that none of these passages refer to the emission of sperm as a sin. In fact, such an emission has fewer consequences than a woman's menstruation.
I would conclude, therefore, that masturbation is not a sin and is no more regulated in the Bible than relieving oneself or menstruating. This is unsurprising, since the overwhelming majority of human beings do touch at some point in their lives (and the rest, someone once said, are lying); if it was a sin, then, it seems to me, it would have been mentioned.
Thus, I tell people if they don't feel guilty about doing it, then it is not a problem. On the other hand, if they do feel guilty, then perhaps they shouldn't. The principles of Romans 14 come into play: on matters of individual conscience, if the conscience is not clear, then for that individual it is a sin.
Enjoy masturbation as a wonderful gift to you from God for you to enjoy. Masturbation is clearly not a sin at all, but a wonderful gift from God to all people to enjoy, just like sex in marriage is a gift from God and they should praise God for the Joy of partner sex as well as for solo sex.
Do a Yahoo.com web search on: " masturbation is not a sin and a gift from God for all to enjoy"
also on: "christianmasturbation". This will show you many Christian pastors show masturbation is not a sin at all.
If anyone does proper research in and out side the Bible they will learn that masturbation has over 50 health benefits. The past lies have all been exposed as lies. Many false medical lies, expose as lies. Satan is the father of lies.
Lev 15:16-18 clearly would include wet dreams and masturbation and partner sex and all three clearly show that no sin offering required at all just a wash up. There are no other verse in the whole Bible that would contradict this in any way. Anti-masturbationist take many verses out of Bible culture and Bible time context. All the verses they use are taken out context and misused.
Do search on Yahoo.com "masturbation is not a sin" and another on on "christianmasturbation". These web sites will expose the lies and show how they misuse the Bible and take every Bible out of context. Most anti-masturbationist verses dont even talk about masturbation as does Lev 15:16-18 not even close.
If they condemn masturbation, to use consistent logic they also have to condemn wet dreams and sex in marriage because the same actions and lust or sexual fantasies are used in all three and would also be included in Lev 15:16-18 and it clearly is not a sin at all. anti-masturbationist misuse the Bible and use inconsistence logic and take verse after verse out of Bible culture and Bible time and Bible text context. They total ignore the Context and culture of the Bible times.
Many People who have major stress over masturbation carry this sexual hang up with them into marriage also.
lev 15:16-18 clearly show it is not a sin when many other things like a womens period require a sin offering but not masturbation or wet dreams nor sex with a partner. They these anti-masturbation want to call masturbation a sin then they will have to say that a women on her period is a sin, if they use consistence logic, but they do not.
Not one of the 40+ Bible writers nor Jesus nor anyone in all the Bible said that masturbation was a sin at all. This is a Islam teaching not a Bible teaching at all. People of the past were brainwashed by the medical lies and then force this false ideal into the Bible by take Bible verses out of context to back up the past medical lies. Its just like saying a lie you have to say more lies to back up the first lies. The lies have been exposed but the brainwashing and takeing verses out of context remains.
100 % man made guilt trip brainwashing based on past medical lies. Masturbation is a gift from God for all people to enjoy there sexuality that God gave them to enjoy. Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Jn 10:10 Satan wants to kill steal destroy and Jesus give life more abundant. Satan uses lies to kill steal and destroy, Jesus said the truth will set you free. Jesus say my way is easy, the way of the wick is hard. *** 1:15 to the pure all things are pure We are pure in Christ alone. Masturbation is pure. We are under the law of love. Love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. Masturbation is a fulfillment of that and in not go against the law of love in any way at all.
Anti-masturbation goes against the law of love by there condemnation, man made shame and guilt trip put on people and children, they verses after verse out of context, they use inconsistance logic, and ignore common sense and ignore Bible culture in Bible times. Like the way of the wick is hard that is what they want to put onto all people shame, guilt, condemnation all very unloving.
Do the yahoo.com search on "masturbation is not a sin but a gift from God"
and on:" christianmasturbation" and "libchrist masturbation" and look at both sides and you will conclude like many other pastors and Christian leaders have found that masturbation is not a sin at all and has many healthy benefits. Study Song of Solomon and see all the sexy talk and lusty action and they are not married in SOS and it is not evil in any way.
Is Masturbation a Sin?
The only mention of masturbation in the Bible would possibly be Lev. 15:16-18, 32-33; 22:4 and Deut. 23:10-11. It is interesting to notice that none of these passages refer to the emission of sperm as a sin. In fact, such an emission has fewer consequences than a woman's menstruation.
I would conclude, therefore, that masturbation is not a sin and is no more regulated in the Bible than relieving oneself or menstruating. This is unsurprising, since the overwhelming majority of human beings do touch at some point in their lives (and the rest, someone once said, are lying); if it was a sin, then, it seems to me, it would have been mentioned.
Thus, I tell people if they don't feel guilty about doing it, then it is not a problem. On the other hand, if they do feel guilty, then perhaps they shouldn't. The principles of Romans 14 come into play: on matters of individual conscience, if the conscience is not clear, then for that individual it is a sin.
Upvote
0
Jesus said "My yoke is easy"
One Savior--Jesus Christ, One God--our creator God, One Command-- go and tell everyone, One law to follow-- the law of love (the whole law is fulfilled in one law-- the law of love), One heaven-Jesus when to prepare a place for us, One hell-- for non-believers, One heaven- for believer, One work to do--to trust in Christ.
Christ is the second Adam to make us a "new Creation" similar to Adam and Eve before the sin of the first Adam. "(as Adam before the sin, when Adam and Eve were 100% nude and with out any shame) We are 100% pure in Christ alone. All sins: pass, present, and future, Christ has paid for them all.
"To the pure ALL things are pure" titus 1:15. "All things are lawful to us" We don't have any list of laws (either in Old Testament or in the New) to follow, we are under one law only, the law of love.
In Christ we are as Adam and Eve were before they sinned. We only have one law, the law of love. The law of love judges our actions. If you have a sexual fantasy, then judge it on the law of love. Is it a loving fantasy? If yes, then it is ok. If it is unloving, unkind, then it is bad.
What list of laws did Adam and Eve have? Basically None! What list of sex rules did Adam and Eve have? Basically None! They were also basically under the law of love also with action toward others.
Christ is the second Adam to undo Adam and Eve sin. Christ paid the cost for 100% of our sins, so we are basically sinless before God, because of Christ. With only one rule.
Always ask yourself, " did Adam and Eve have this law?" Did they have this rule?
We don't have any list of rules or laws to follow. We only have one, the law of love. We are liberated in Christ to love others with no laws or rules, other then the law of love.
Legalism is picking a list of laws or rules and force people to follow them. We put hard yokes on people. We make major man made heavy load guilt trips on people. The Law of Love is our rule and law.
Even St Paul is very legalistic at times. Even church leaders want to put a heavy load of long list of rule on us. They go read some Bible verse and act like its another list of rule on us to follow with out thinking that we only have one rule.
"Dont call unclean what God calls clean"(Acts 10 or 11) God call all things clean. This was a major reversal of the Old Testament rules. "All things are lawful to me"( 1 Cor 6:12 )"the whole law is fulfilled in: love God and love others as you love yourself."
Most people have a major misunderstand of the Gospels. Jesus lived under the law; age of grace did not come until after his death. Also Jesus and others spoke totally different to legalist non-follows, non-believes then how he spoke to believers. Much of the Sermon on the Mount after vs. 12 was spoken to legalistic, under law, non-believer who were trusting in the law to get them to heaven and not to Christians. You always have to ask yourself, "who is Jesus talking to?" non-believer or believer? This is very important. This misunderstanding has caused much legalism in Christianity and we have lost many freedoms in Christ and put heavy yokes on people.
Marriage they promote possessiveness and jealousy to rule and not love. Marriage is after the pagan Romans, the "Roman"tic love of one man, one women. Under Jewish rule they always had many wives and concubines and other sexual lovers both before and after marriage. Even God solution for David's Adultery was to go get as many women as he wanted, (2 Sam 12:8) just don't steal other men's wives or kill them to get their wives from them. God's solution was more wives not less or not just one will do you. 2 Samuel 12:8 I (God) gave you (David) his (Saul's) house and his (Sauls) wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more. That is as many women as you desire.
God designed every detail of our sexuality, our sexual fantasies, sexual lust, and our individual sex drive and God said it was very good.
God designed sexual lust, we did not. God built it into us to lust after sexual pleasures. God design it.
Lust is greatly misused and misunderstood by religion people. There is good healthy lust and bad lust. Sexuality is good lust. God built it in to the system. Animals are designed by God and their sexual also has built in program. Animal did not sin. Human nature was design by God. The only bad part is the "sin principal" part of it.
We are free in Christ and only have one law to follow the law of love.
One command to follow: to go and tell the world of God's love for them, that Jesus paid the penalty 100% of their sins and tell them about one law to follow, the law of love.
The whole law is fulfilled in this that you love your neighbor as you love yourself. God as the only creator God, there is no other.
If all these sex rules were that important then God would have given a long list of sex do's and don't rules to Adam and Eve to follow. He would not have waited hundreds of years and then come up with a list.
Most of the sex rule was to solve a special problem of the special time and special culture.
Sexual lovemaking is a wonderful way to show affectionate love to a person. This is a much deeper and personal love that the person can feel and enjoy and it meets an important love need we all have. Many people's love language is touch and physical loving touch and many don't real feel loved unless it connects to them or touches them physically.
The Bible says, "they will know us by our love". The deepest and most powerful love to most humans is sensual or sexual intimacy love making kind of love. Even the Bible talks of a "holy" kiss. Is this a passionate lovers kiss or just a good night kiss at the door?
Religion people want to put a very hard yoke on people and make lots of legalistic rule to create major man made guilt trip and over burden people with a heavy load of do's and don'ts and tell them that their God designed love making sex drive is evil. This is not true.
We have freedom in Christ to love everyone. The true will set you free. We are free. Enjoy your freedom.
Before a person finds a Bible Verse that hinds that we are suppose to be unloving, then show them these love verses.
Don't major on the minor. Major on the major (love) and everything is minor.
Jas 2:12 - So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.
Micah 6:8 The Lord has told you, human, what is good; he has told you what he wants from you: to do what is right to other people, love being kind to others, and live humbly, obeying your God.
Ge 1:31 - Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. ...(Note: God designed our human nature, every detail of our natural sexuality, and said it was all very good. The only bad part of us is what we added, the "sin principal" part.)
Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
titus1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Ro 14:20 - For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
2Co 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Ga 6:15 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
Acts 10:13 Then a voice said to Peter, "Get up, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "No, Lord! I have never eaten food that is unholy or unclean." 15 But the voice said to him again, "God has made these things clean so don't call them 'unholy'!" 16 This happened three times
(Note: this was not only about food, but almost everything.)
Ga 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
2Jo 1:6 - Love means doing what God has commanded us, and he has commanded us to love one another, just as you heard from the beginning.
1Co 14:1 - Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy.
Ro 13:9 - For the commandments against adultery and murder and stealing and coveting and any other commandment are all summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Ac 20:24 -But my life is worth nothing unless I use it for doing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus the work of telling others the Good News about God's wonderful kindness and love.
Ro 12:10 -Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other.
Ga 5:13 - For you have been called to live in freedom not freedom to satisfy your sinful nature, but freedom to serve one another in love.
Note: this is the "sin principal" part of us. Being unloving, unkind, unforgiving, unthankful, being mean, selfish, rude, etc opposite of 1 Cor 13. God designed the human nature and said it was very good. We added the "sin principal" part.
Joh 13:35 - Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."
Ro 12:9 - Don't just pretend that you love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Stand on the side of the good.
Ro 13:8 - Pay all your debts, except the debt of love for others. You can never finish paying that! If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill all the requirements of God's law.
Ro 13:10 - Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements.
1 Corinthians 13: 1 - 13
1 If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody.
3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud
5 or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged.
6 It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.
7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will all disappear.
9 Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little!
10 But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear.
11 It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.
13 There are three things that will endure faith, hope, and love and the greatest of these is love.
1Co 16:14 - And everything you do must be done with love.
1Co 16:20 - All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
Gal 5:14 - For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
One Savior--Jesus Christ, One God--our creator God, One Command-- go and tell everyone, One law to follow-- the law of love (the whole law is fulfilled in one law-- the law of love), One heaven-Jesus when to prepare a place for us, One hell-- for non-believers, One heaven- for believer, One work to do--to trust in Christ.
Christ is the second Adam to make us a "new Creation" similar to Adam and Eve before the sin of the first Adam. "(as Adam before the sin, when Adam and Eve were 100% nude and with out any shame) We are 100% pure in Christ alone. All sins: pass, present, and future, Christ has paid for them all.
"To the pure ALL things are pure" titus 1:15. "All things are lawful to us" We don't have any list of laws (either in Old Testament or in the New) to follow, we are under one law only, the law of love.
In Christ we are as Adam and Eve were before they sinned. We only have one law, the law of love. The law of love judges our actions. If you have a sexual fantasy, then judge it on the law of love. Is it a loving fantasy? If yes, then it is ok. If it is unloving, unkind, then it is bad.
What list of laws did Adam and Eve have? Basically None! What list of sex rules did Adam and Eve have? Basically None! They were also basically under the law of love also with action toward others.
Christ is the second Adam to undo Adam and Eve sin. Christ paid the cost for 100% of our sins, so we are basically sinless before God, because of Christ. With only one rule.
Always ask yourself, " did Adam and Eve have this law?" Did they have this rule?
We don't have any list of rules or laws to follow. We only have one, the law of love. We are liberated in Christ to love others with no laws or rules, other then the law of love.
Legalism is picking a list of laws or rules and force people to follow them. We put hard yokes on people. We make major man made heavy load guilt trips on people. The Law of Love is our rule and law.
Even St Paul is very legalistic at times. Even church leaders want to put a heavy load of long list of rule on us. They go read some Bible verse and act like its another list of rule on us to follow with out thinking that we only have one rule.
"Dont call unclean what God calls clean"(Acts 10 or 11) God call all things clean. This was a major reversal of the Old Testament rules. "All things are lawful to me"( 1 Cor 6:12 )"the whole law is fulfilled in: love God and love others as you love yourself."
Most people have a major misunderstand of the Gospels. Jesus lived under the law; age of grace did not come until after his death. Also Jesus and others spoke totally different to legalist non-follows, non-believes then how he spoke to believers. Much of the Sermon on the Mount after vs. 12 was spoken to legalistic, under law, non-believer who were trusting in the law to get them to heaven and not to Christians. You always have to ask yourself, "who is Jesus talking to?" non-believer or believer? This is very important. This misunderstanding has caused much legalism in Christianity and we have lost many freedoms in Christ and put heavy yokes on people.
Marriage they promote possessiveness and jealousy to rule and not love. Marriage is after the pagan Romans, the "Roman"tic love of one man, one women. Under Jewish rule they always had many wives and concubines and other sexual lovers both before and after marriage. Even God solution for David's Adultery was to go get as many women as he wanted, (2 Sam 12:8) just don't steal other men's wives or kill them to get their wives from them. God's solution was more wives not less or not just one will do you. 2 Samuel 12:8 I (God) gave you (David) his (Saul's) house and his (Sauls) wives and the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. And if that had not been enough, I would have given you much, much more. That is as many women as you desire.
God designed every detail of our sexuality, our sexual fantasies, sexual lust, and our individual sex drive and God said it was very good.
God designed sexual lust, we did not. God built it into us to lust after sexual pleasures. God design it.
Lust is greatly misused and misunderstood by religion people. There is good healthy lust and bad lust. Sexuality is good lust. God built it in to the system. Animals are designed by God and their sexual also has built in program. Animal did not sin. Human nature was design by God. The only bad part is the "sin principal" part of it.
We are free in Christ and only have one law to follow the law of love.
One command to follow: to go and tell the world of God's love for them, that Jesus paid the penalty 100% of their sins and tell them about one law to follow, the law of love.
The whole law is fulfilled in this that you love your neighbor as you love yourself. God as the only creator God, there is no other.
If all these sex rules were that important then God would have given a long list of sex do's and don't rules to Adam and Eve to follow. He would not have waited hundreds of years and then come up with a list.
Most of the sex rule was to solve a special problem of the special time and special culture.
Sexual lovemaking is a wonderful way to show affectionate love to a person. This is a much deeper and personal love that the person can feel and enjoy and it meets an important love need we all have. Many people's love language is touch and physical loving touch and many don't real feel loved unless it connects to them or touches them physically.
The Bible says, "they will know us by our love". The deepest and most powerful love to most humans is sensual or sexual intimacy love making kind of love. Even the Bible talks of a "holy" kiss. Is this a passionate lovers kiss or just a good night kiss at the door?
Religion people want to put a very hard yoke on people and make lots of legalistic rule to create major man made guilt trip and over burden people with a heavy load of do's and don'ts and tell them that their God designed love making sex drive is evil. This is not true.
We have freedom in Christ to love everyone. The true will set you free. We are free. Enjoy your freedom.
Before a person finds a Bible Verse that hinds that we are suppose to be unloving, then show them these love verses.
Don't major on the minor. Major on the major (love) and everything is minor.
Jas 2:12 - So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.
Micah 6:8 The Lord has told you, human, what is good; he has told you what he wants from you: to do what is right to other people, love being kind to others, and live humbly, obeying your God.
Ge 1:31 - Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. ...(Note: God designed our human nature, every detail of our natural sexuality, and said it was all very good. The only bad part of us is what we added, the "sin principal" part.)
Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
titus1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Ro 14:20 - For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
1Co 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
2Co 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Ga 6:15 - For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.
Acts 10:13 Then a voice said to Peter, "Get up, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "No, Lord! I have never eaten food that is unholy or unclean." 15 But the voice said to him again, "God has made these things clean so don't call them 'unholy'!" 16 This happened three times
(Note: this was not only about food, but almost everything.)
Ga 5:14 - For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
2Jo 1:6 - Love means doing what God has commanded us, and he has commanded us to love one another, just as you heard from the beginning.
1Co 14:1 - Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy.
Ro 13:9 - For the commandments against adultery and murder and stealing and coveting and any other commandment are all summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Ac 20:24 -But my life is worth nothing unless I use it for doing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus the work of telling others the Good News about God's wonderful kindness and love.
Ro 12:10 -Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other.
Ga 5:13 - For you have been called to live in freedom not freedom to satisfy your sinful nature, but freedom to serve one another in love.
Note: this is the "sin principal" part of us. Being unloving, unkind, unforgiving, unthankful, being mean, selfish, rude, etc opposite of 1 Cor 13. God designed the human nature and said it was very good. We added the "sin principal" part.
Joh 13:35 - Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."
Ro 12:9 - Don't just pretend that you love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Stand on the side of the good.
Ro 13:8 - Pay all your debts, except the debt of love for others. You can never finish paying that! If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill all the requirements of God's law.
Ro 13:10 - Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements.
1 Corinthians 13: 1 - 13
1 If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth but didn't love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody.
3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn't love others, I would be of no value whatsoever.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud
5 or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged.
6 It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.
7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will all disappear.
9 Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little!
10 But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear.
11 It's like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things.
12 Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.
13 There are three things that will endure faith, hope, and love and the greatest of these is love.
1Co 16:14 - And everything you do must be done with love.
1Co 16:20 - All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss.
Gal 5:14 - For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
Upvote
0
sam4u said:
I can't believe what I just read. Masturbation is pure? The life that Jesus gives us to be more abundant I don't believe involved touching yourself. To say that masturbation in all forms is good and to go even further by saying it is a "fullfillment" of God's command to love...
Be very careful with your line of reasoning.
100% man made guilt trip....hmmm...That's funny, I can find someone who has never been told that touching yourself was wrong and they feel bad when they do it. What would be telling them that it's wrong? Everyone of us has been given a conscience. It is God's Law written on our hearts. The word conscience means "with knowledge". When we sin, His Spirit tells us when we have done wrong. Not man. There is a difference between guilt and conviction. If you feel convicted, then you have done wrong.
sam4u said:
I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. You have some incredibly bold statements here and I don't see much solid Scriptural evidence to support it. You claim the high majority of Christians to be taking Scripture out of context and you use Song of Solomon to support "sexy talk and lusty action", also claiming it is "not evil in any way". But then you contradict yourself by saying that "if they feel guilty, then perhaps they shouldn't." This is completely against your theory of it being completely good and a "fullfillment" of God's command to love. If it is God's plan to do it, why would our conscience tell us otherwise? You blame Christians for condemning it and making those feel guilty who practice it. Perhaps you might be a part of the "inconsistance logic" that you claim everyone else to be under.sam4u said:
Why not just stick with your final statement on Romans 14, "if the conscience is not clear, then for that individual it is a sin."
God bless.
Upvote
0
Wow, Sam4U. I can't even begin to respond to your post. Wow. I will pray for you, man. I will pray for everyone that reads this thread. May God's Spirit lead us in the right direction and show us the way. God bless.
Upvote
0
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>>I can't believe what I just read. Masturbation is pure?
*******sam4u reply*******masturbation is a gift from God to all people. Just like marriage partner sex is a gift from God to those happily married people. Lev 15: 16-18 tread married sex the same as solo sex. Both are gifts from God and both are pure. Titus 1:15 to the pure all things are pure.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> The life that Jesus gives us to be more abundant I don't believe involved touching yourself.
*******sam4u reply*******That includes many things. Sexuality is a very big drive in many people and bring a lot of joy and happiness and is a gift from God. God designed it , we did not. God gave it as a gift, we did not earn it or anything.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>>To say that masturbation in all forms is good and to go even further by saying it is a "fullfillment" of God's command to love...
*******sam4u reply*******all forms I did not say that anywhere you are putting words in my mouth. I say masturbation is not a sin and a gift from God. Any gift from God can be misused. Food is a gift from God and that can be misused.
We are judge by the law of love and solo masturbation does not go against the law of love in any way unless it violates the law of love in some way by being unloving.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>>Be very careful with your line of reasoning.
100% man made guilt trip....hmmm...That's funny, I can find someone who has never been told that touching yourself was wrong and they feel bad when they do it. What would be telling them that it's wrong? Everyone of us has been given a conscience. It is God's Law written on our hearts. The word conscience means "with knowledge".
*******sam4u reply*******Some say our subconscience is program by age 12. Many people effect how we think about everything. From early childhood your parent tell you not to touch between your leg in public or dont touch yourselves down there. Or hurry up get dress someone might see your nude body. From born we are brainwashed nudity and sexual shame and guilt from many sources.
Most children the first time they touch and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] may be clueless of what just happen and of course they are ashamed to tell someone else in fear of intimadation or someone will laugh at them or someone with pile on a major shame and guilt trip on them.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> When we sin, His Spirit tells us when we have done wrong. Not man. There is a difference between guilt and conviction. If you feel convicted, then you have done wrong.
*******sam4u reply*******masturbation is not a sin, just a man made shame and guilt trip. In Acts 10 Peter had Guilt about eating unclean food, but God told dont call unclean what he called clean. Peter conscience had to be reprogrammed.
Roman 12:2 tell us to renew our mind. The context of that is the Jew just came out of major legalistic age of the law now they are in age of grace with many liberties. They had to renew there mind to look at thing with the eye of the law of love. Not any long list of rules taken out of context. The whole is fulfil in love your neighbor as you love yourself.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>>I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. You have some incredibly bold statements here and I don't see much solid Scriptural evidence to support it. You claim the high majority of Christians to be taking Scripture out of context
*******sam4u reply*******anti-masturbation take a lot of scriptures out of context and they are not a majority at all. They are a very minority. But they do much harm to God, the church and themselves for there anti-masturbation condemnation of themselves and others by taking verses out of context that were bases on past lies.
I have very solid scripture in Lev 15:16-18. Anti-masturbationist have no scripture at all.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> and you use Song of Solomon to support "sexy talk and lusty action", also claiming it is "not evil in any way".
*******sam4u reply******* That is true.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> But then you contradict yourself by saying that "if they feel guilty, then perhaps they shouldn't." This is completely against your theory of it being completely good and a "fullfillment" of God's command to love. If it is God's plan to do it, why would our conscience tell us otherwise?
*******sam4u reply*******Because of man made brainwashing of emotional shame and guilt trip pile on people. Roman 14:14 was about fodd not eating in offense. They had liberty to eat any food but if they personally had a major hang up and could not get over it or they were brain dead or they could not learn a new way of doing thing and were so brainwashed emotionally that they could not overcome there brainwashing then they should not go against there conscience. But this did not make eating that food a sin for other people to eat. It was a personal emotion hang up for that one person.
But Paul strongly argue at some Christian Jews in Gal 5 who were putting them selves and others back under some of the law. That if they put themselves back under the law then they must put themselves back under the whole law and fall from grace.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> You blame Christians for condemning it and making those feel guilty who practice it.
*******sam4u reply*******Yes I do. But this is a Catholic and cultic and Muslim teaching not a Bible teaching at all. Masturbation was not a sin in the OT and not one in the NT neither. Nowhere in the Bible is it a sin. We are under the law of love.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> Perhaps you might be a part of the "inconsistance logic" that you claim everyone else to be under.
Why not just stick with your final statement on Romans 14, "if the conscience is not clear, then for that individual it is a sin."
*******sam4u reply*******Roman 14:14 is not a contradiction as I have already explained in this post. And it is not the final statement. Over and over again Paul try hard to explain to the legalistic Jews that we are not under the law any longer but under grace. Even Paul sometime is legalistic at times.
But anti-masturbationist goes a big step farther then that, because even under the law masturbation was not a sin at all.
*******sam4u reply*******masturbation is a gift from God to all people. Just like marriage partner sex is a gift from God to those happily married people. Lev 15: 16-18 tread married sex the same as solo sex. Both are gifts from God and both are pure. Titus 1:15 to the pure all things are pure.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> The life that Jesus gives us to be more abundant I don't believe involved touching yourself.
*******sam4u reply*******That includes many things. Sexuality is a very big drive in many people and bring a lot of joy and happiness and is a gift from God. God designed it , we did not. God gave it as a gift, we did not earn it or anything.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>>To say that masturbation in all forms is good and to go even further by saying it is a "fullfillment" of God's command to love...
*******sam4u reply*******all forms I did not say that anywhere you are putting words in my mouth. I say masturbation is not a sin and a gift from God. Any gift from God can be misused. Food is a gift from God and that can be misused.
We are judge by the law of love and solo masturbation does not go against the law of love in any way unless it violates the law of love in some way by being unloving.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>>Be very careful with your line of reasoning.
100% man made guilt trip....hmmm...That's funny, I can find someone who has never been told that touching yourself was wrong and they feel bad when they do it. What would be telling them that it's wrong? Everyone of us has been given a conscience. It is God's Law written on our hearts. The word conscience means "with knowledge".
*******sam4u reply*******Some say our subconscience is program by age 12. Many people effect how we think about everything. From early childhood your parent tell you not to touch between your leg in public or dont touch yourselves down there. Or hurry up get dress someone might see your nude body. From born we are brainwashed nudity and sexual shame and guilt from many sources.
Most children the first time they touch and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] may be clueless of what just happen and of course they are ashamed to tell someone else in fear of intimadation or someone will laugh at them or someone with pile on a major shame and guilt trip on them.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> When we sin, His Spirit tells us when we have done wrong. Not man. There is a difference between guilt and conviction. If you feel convicted, then you have done wrong.
*******sam4u reply*******masturbation is not a sin, just a man made shame and guilt trip. In Acts 10 Peter had Guilt about eating unclean food, but God told dont call unclean what he called clean. Peter conscience had to be reprogrammed.
Roman 12:2 tell us to renew our mind. The context of that is the Jew just came out of major legalistic age of the law now they are in age of grace with many liberties. They had to renew there mind to look at thing with the eye of the law of love. Not any long list of rules taken out of context. The whole is fulfil in love your neighbor as you love yourself.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>>I'm not sure I understand where you are coming from. You have some incredibly bold statements here and I don't see much solid Scriptural evidence to support it. You claim the high majority of Christians to be taking Scripture out of context
*******sam4u reply*******anti-masturbation take a lot of scriptures out of context and they are not a majority at all. They are a very minority. But they do much harm to God, the church and themselves for there anti-masturbation condemnation of themselves and others by taking verses out of context that were bases on past lies.
I have very solid scripture in Lev 15:16-18. Anti-masturbationist have no scripture at all.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> and you use Song of Solomon to support "sexy talk and lusty action", also claiming it is "not evil in any way".
*******sam4u reply******* That is true.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> But then you contradict yourself by saying that "if they feel guilty, then perhaps they shouldn't." This is completely against your theory of it being completely good and a "fullfillment" of God's command to love. If it is God's plan to do it, why would our conscience tell us otherwise?
*******sam4u reply*******Because of man made brainwashing of emotional shame and guilt trip pile on people. Roman 14:14 was about fodd not eating in offense. They had liberty to eat any food but if they personally had a major hang up and could not get over it or they were brain dead or they could not learn a new way of doing thing and were so brainwashed emotionally that they could not overcome there brainwashing then they should not go against there conscience. But this did not make eating that food a sin for other people to eat. It was a personal emotion hang up for that one person.
But Paul strongly argue at some Christian Jews in Gal 5 who were putting them selves and others back under some of the law. That if they put themselves back under the law then they must put themselves back under the whole law and fall from grace.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> You blame Christians for condemning it and making those feel guilty who practice it.
*******sam4u reply*******Yes I do. But this is a Catholic and cultic and Muslim teaching not a Bible teaching at all. Masturbation was not a sin in the OT and not one in the NT neither. Nowhere in the Bible is it a sin. We are under the law of love.
>>>>>Carl Carlson said>>>>>> Perhaps you might be a part of the "inconsistance logic" that you claim everyone else to be under.
Why not just stick with your final statement on Romans 14, "if the conscience is not clear, then for that individual it is a sin."
*******sam4u reply*******Roman 14:14 is not a contradiction as I have already explained in this post. And it is not the final statement. Over and over again Paul try hard to explain to the legalistic Jews that we are not under the law any longer but under grace. Even Paul sometime is legalistic at times.
But anti-masturbationist goes a big step farther then that, because even under the law masturbation was not a sin at all.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
