Is mastrobation acceptable?

[Cerridwen]

Double Post.

 

[Cerridwen]

Heh... well contrary to popular belief, when you have sex your going to have a child, unless something physically goes wrong. In using a condom you are denying God's will (and the purpose God created it for) and ensuring that if you were meant to have a child, you wont. The purpose of marrige is procreation as well, and this is why the Church is against pre-martial sex.

I will expand on this later, I have to go for now. God Bless.
Sean C.

No, you're not. There are only approximately 48 hours per month (if a woman's cycles are regular) when it is possible for her to concieve a child. even then, about 30% of fertilized eggs will fail to implant or spontaneously abort. According to Christian dogma, it is impossible to "deny God's will", since supposedly, everything that happens is "according to His plan". If you are "meant to have a child" you will have one, & no condom is going to stop it.
I find it hard to believe that God shuns sex in a monogamous relationship, whether married or not. Actually, I find it hard to believe that God shuns sex at all. If He did, He wouldn't have created the pleasure it gives.

To answer a previous question: Yes, I am quite certain that lust is not required for masturbation. The physical need for sexual release requires no emotion or fantasy partners.

There is a big difference between sex & lovemaking.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[arunma]

I find it hard to believe that God shuns sex in a monogamous relationship, whether married or not. Actually, I find it hard to believe that God shuns sex at all. If He did, He wouldn't have created the pleasure it gives.

By that logic, I could say that God doesn't shun murder, because he created sharp objects. Anyway, according to most Baptist doctrines, God doesn't shun sex within a marriage (no, not even masturbation or condom useage). The issue is sex within a monogamous relationship other than marriage.

Now, let me first say that the marriage license and the legal paperwork are irrelevant. People were getting married before the idea of marriage licenses existed. We believe that sex should only take place within marriage because marriage implies a certain level of commitment that a monogamous relationship does not.

If two people begin dating each other, then they are in a monogamous relationship. But that relationship isn't committed, because they could break off their relationship at any time. But marriage implies that the two partners may not simply break off their relationship on a whim, even if both of them wish for a time to do so. This is the relationship in which sex should take place. God expects that when two people have sex, they will remain with each other until one partner dies. But if you have sex in a monogamous relationship and later break that relationship, you've violated God's will for sexual relations. A marriage is a relationship in which two people unite before their community, and commit themselves to each other. That level of bondage to one another doesn't exist in any other monogamous relationship.

The prophet Moses tells us that when a male and a female have sex, they are united and become one flesh. Saint Paul teaches that the human body is the Lord's Temple. The Holy Spirit, which is the glory of God, dwells within that body. Therefore, when a person has extramarital (or premarital) sexual relations, he defiles not only himself, but the Temple of the Lord. That is why God asks us to remain holy by refraining from premarital sex.

 

[arunma]

To assume that all couples who are unmarried and in a monogamous relationship can just "walk away" or break off the relationship at any time and have it be easy is false. Assuming a married couple can't break off their relationship at any time is also equally false.

If what you say is true, then I don't think it's wrong for you to have sex with your fiance. As iI said earlier, the commitment is what matters. I consider the Las Vegas marriages to be just as sinful as premarital sex.

While I'm not Christian and I know that passage does not apply to me or my relationship, it is rather arrogant to assume that by having sex with your partner before marriage, you're pulling a fast one on The Divine or somehow dishonoring The Divine.

If you end up marrying that partner, then probably not. But what if you break off the relationship after having sex?

 

[Cassiopeia]

In this case, you should abstain from sexual relations with your husband during your fertile period.

As I suffer from ovarian cysts that is very difficult to determine.

 

[Amandine]

If you've ever gotten married or been engaged or planned a wedding, I promise your opinion of Las Vegas weddings would be different. There's nothing like arrainging a party featuring an event that focuses on you to be witnessed by dozens and dozens of your friends and family that costs an arm and a leg , that will wake you up to the fact that a Vegas wedding/elloping isn't a bad thing.

This has always confused me. Does it really have to be either extreme? I wanna have a simple wedding at home...can it happen?

 

[Cassiopeia]

This has always confused me. Does it really have to be either extreme? I wanna have a simple wedding at home...can it happen?

I had my wedding five days before Christmas at home. Albertson's made the cake and the sandwiches and a local florist did a wonderful job with the flowers. The house was decorated for Christmas and we stood before an arched window where the tree was our backdrop. The lights were stunning. You can do anyting you want. In my opinion there is no place like home Of course it demanded a small group in attendence but that was fine by me

 

[Amandine]

I had my wedding five days before Christmas at home. Albertson's made the cake and the sandwiches and a local florist did a wonderful job with the flowers. The house was decorated for Christmas and we stood before an arched window where the tree was our backdrop. The lights were stunning. You can do anyting you want. In my opinion there is no place like home Of course it demanded a small group in attendence but that was fine by me

 

[WhatIsTruth]

arunma,

If you say that the paperwork and the license don't matter, what makes a "married" relaionship any different than a commited monogamous relationship. Marriages end to, sometimes on a whim (though the process of ending it is not, sometimes the WAY it was ended is a whim).

My husband and I shared bills, a house hold, food, pets , everything that a married couple does. And that was before we got married. Now we are married, nothing has changed. All we did was give in to my husbands insane parents demands for a "legal" wedding, because they had problems with a ceremonial only handfasting(as my hubby and I really do not believe in the legal institution of marriage as it stands today) and wanted "insurance" that it was legal. So we got legally hitched.

We don't feel different from before. All my piece of paper says is that if we leave each other we can make the other one's life hell and we have the right to half of what the other one has.

So really what is the difference? Is somehow a ceremony or a piece of paper really that authorative on my sex life and whether or not it meets approval? I don't think so.

Peace

 

[WhatIsTruth]

That's what I thought to...then I started planning a wedding...I will never do that again.

Luckily I did mine at a chapel in the mountains that offers wedding packages and was open to having full pagan handfastings. Our wedding cost 1500 dollars and that includes a picture package and a small reception and cake

Pretty good for the money..

 

[Cassiopeia]

My doctor can't tell me when my fertile period is... I don't think I could even narrow it down. I have several reproductive health problems from a tipped uterus to endometriosis that make it almost impossible for me to depend on a set fertile time, or even a period every 28 days.

Studies have increasingly shown that, while women are more fertile one time in their cycle than any other time, that women are fertile all through their cycle with peaks during ovulation and during their period itself. This is why planning sex around something as unpredictable as hormones in a woman's body is not the most effective form of birth control.

Jerusha

yep and combine that with the fact that sometimes I ovulate twice in one month. And there is no way to know I am going to until I feel the pain of it. Then it is too late.

It is my suspicion this person isn't married. I could be wrong but most likely I am not.

 

[arunma]

Studies are finally showing what women have been saying all along... That the only people who think the fertility cycle in women was something you could set your watch by are male biologists and doctors. That's why I get all my female care at Planned Parenthood. They are the best. They are always so up-to-date on the latest health info for women, and they're working to correct my fertility problems.

OK, but since I don't oppose the use of condoms for married partners, that doesn't address my points about premarital sex.

 

[tdcharles]

For me to have a child at this point in my life would put my life at risk. Are you saying that I am denying God's will. I think the Divine wants me to stick around and take care of my three kids and be with my husband. I agree that for SOME the purpose of marriage is procreation. But to say that is it's only purpose leaves out the very important roles of being monogamous. If you want to look at what you are essentially saying, If someone doesn't want or can't have children there is no reason to get married. I don't think you want to say that do you?

As I suffer from ovarian cysts that is very difficult to determine.

There are (very) limited circumstances where artificial birth control is allowed.

On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever.

I have read that birth control pills can maintain normal menstrual cycles, which helps prevent new cysts from forming. If your condition is recurring, and if you use birth control pills to treat your condition first and foremost, then I don't see a problem with it.

 

[Cerridwen]

Um, I don't think this post was meant to address your points about premarital sex, since it was in response to InnerPhyre's comment about "refraining from sex during your fertile period".

As to your points, I still don't see a difference between sex in a commited relationship & sex within the confines of a marriage. I think far too much emphasis is placed on the sex aspect of getting married, which in turn causes young people who *think* they're in love to get married just so they can sleep together. This equates sex with love, which is dangerous to one's sexual & emotional health. I also believe that not having sex before one settles down & decides to get married can be harmful to the marital relationship. I am not advocating adolescent sex, nor am I saying it's better to have 300 sexual partners, I just think there is something to be said for a little premarital "experience". Many times, married people end up having affairs due to curiosity, or wondering what one might have "missed out on" by not having any sexual experience except for that with a spouse. Not only that, but people who have been taught that touching themselves is wrong, especially women, will not know anything about their bodies except that they are "dirty" & will be too afraid to talk to their spouses about what they need or want. Sex is not just for procreation, sex is for pleasure, & sex can bring people who love each other closer together not just physically, but also emotionally & spiritually (& no, one doesn't have to be a Christian to have a spiritual lovemaking session). Personally, when I got married I planned to get married once & that was it. I sure can't imagine having to spend the rest of my life with someone I was not sexually compatible with. Certainly there is a lot more to marriage than sex, but the physical is an important part of it.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[arunma]

I think far too much emphasis is placed on the sex aspect of getting married, which in turn causes young people who *think* they're in love to get married just so they can sleep together. This equates sex with love, which is dangerous to one's sexual & emotional health.

I think you're grasping at straws now. As far as I know, teen sex is more of a problem than teen marriage. Besides that, your suggestion encourages young people who think they're in love to have sex before getting married.

 

[WhatIsTruth]

That is not what she is saying in her posts.

I don't think he cares or wants to understand what she is saying.

 

[Cassiopeia]

I think you're grasping at straws now. As far as I know, teen sex is more of a problem than teen marriage. Besides that, your suggestion encourages young people who think they're in love to have sex before getting married.

arunma, sorry hun, you know I luv ya but you are the one creating a strawman here. She said nothing of the sort in her post.

Hope you had a great bday
Casi

 

[WhatIsTruth]

I don't think premarital sex is a bad thing at all either. It has not been shown the difference between sex in a commited relationship and sex in marriage as being any different. Sometimes my husband and I wish we had not caved into his parents insistence for a "legal" ceremony. If we had a ceremony at all it should have just been the ritual, with no legal bloobity.

I for one WOULD still like to know what is the difference between sex in a marriage and sex in a commited relationship that is not a marriage.

BTW I love your signature Jerusha. What is it from?

 

[Cerridwen]

Thanks, Jerusha_girl.

I think you're grasping at straws now. As far as I know, teen sex is more of a problem than teen marriage. Besides that, your suggestion encourages young people who think they're in love to have sex before getting married.

Grasping at straws? Not hardly. Teen sex isn't necessarily more of a problem than teen marriage, as often teen sex & teen marriage go hand in hand, but that's beside the point. As a teen myself, the majority of the girls I knew who ended up pregnant in high school (& I'm from Alabama, so there were a lot) ALL happened to be Christians & were ignorant of birth control because their parents didn't have the good sense or responsibilty to talk to them about it. We weren't allowed to have sex ed in school, because so many Christian parents didn't want little Jane or Johnny to know about that nastiness. Utter stupidity. Teen sex wouldn't be such a problem if there weren't so many morons fighting the educating of teens about birth control & protecting themselves.
My suggestion doesn't encourage teens who think they're in love to have sex. I stated specifically that I am not advocating adolescent sex. I think it is better for high schoolers to wait until after graduation for sex, simply because it can complicate the already difficult navigation of the teen years. I think it is better for young people (not adolescents) to have sex before marriage because it gives them a chance to figure themselves out, to experience single life, to "sew their wild oats" as it were, as long as they are responsible, of course. You don't have to "think you're in love" to want to have sex with someone. Sex & love are two different things. Sex within a commited & monogamous relationship is usually very different than casual sex. I think that forcing abstinence until marriage teaches young people to focus too much on the sexual aspect of marriage, & to not focus enough on the partner for life aspect of it. I think it is much better for a person to date a lot of people, experience love with a lot of people, & yes, even sleep with a few of them before settling down with one person, because that way, you know, without a doubt, that your marriage partner is Mr/Ms Right, not Mr/Ms Right Now. Not only do I think that sex before marriage is important, I also think that cohabitation is as well. I would never marry someone I had never lived with or slept with, just as I would never buy a car or a house I had never driven or looked at first.



Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[Cassiopeia]

I tend to agree.

I personally don't think that premarital sex is a bad thing at all. If you choose to wait until marriage that is certainly your right and I applaud the choice, but I don't see the shame or fault in premarital sex, especially in comitted relationships. Considering that current statistics show that 80% of Americans are not virgins when they exchange vows, it seems that a majority of people agree.

Jerusha

I was a virgin on my wedding night at the age of 25. I had never felt comfortable giving myself completely before that time. After my divorce at the age of 37 I did engage in premarital sex and I was always a bit nervous about the level of committment it meant for ME.

In talking with my children I have always counciled them that the reason I discourage them to have premarital sex is that it involves the heart on a much deeper level and is equally devasting if you break up as during a divorce. In my opinion there is no greater sharing than that of the physical union and we must take care not to give so much of ourselves unless we are certain that the other person is equally willing ot share that depth of feeling. For some sex is just sex. That is not how I see it. I think if someone is ready and willing and realizes the risks they take and are an ADULT they should be free to share of themselves as they see fit. As long as noone is being hurt.

I do however, take exception to teenagers before they are really mature enough to decide. Yeah I know, not winning any brownie points here but there is much to risk. I would hope that by the time one is 20 that one would have had enough time and given thoughtful care to what they decide. I worry for those who have sex before then as to the potential risks of being used and dumped and many people are not ready for true committment are just looking to have fun. I also have a concern for teenage pregnancy. Too often young women are left alone to raise a child or face giving a baby up for adoption or worse the emotional and spiritual wounds of abortion. Teen years are far too tender to be faced with such choices and delemmas. I say have fun but safely and don't give your heart away too quickly. Life is full of opportunities.

Alright I went off on my soapbox again. Sorry but I just feel very strongly about this topic. It isn't just the young ladies in danger either. If a young man has sex with a girl before they are both of legal age and they break up he runs the risk of a statatory rape charge. Even if they don't break up he runs the risk of her parents stepping in to file it. I just think life is so fun and too short.

Okay...be smart and be safe,
Casi (in mommy mode)