Is Magic the Gathering an Evil Game? Can Christians Play It?

[LutheranGuy123]

Cute excuse but you're missing the point.

1. Football in itself isn't bad, the cheerleaders are an add on that you can simply choose not to look at or have anything to do with. Now if you're not strong enough for that then don't go I guess, JEff Arnold a christian preacher doesn't go to them becuase of the cheerleaders and beer for example. With Yu-Gi and "magic" it's not like that, now sure in the card game you can simply get rid of all your demon/dragon cards.... but meh that's a lot of cards.

You have another terrible analogy with theology....just like with football you can be selective with the courses you take you don't have to learn about all the faiths IK some that were selective with their studies. Andd even if you choose to learn about ISlam (it's good to have a basic understanding of false doctrine when you reach a certain point in your walk) you aren't participating in it or associating with it, you're simply learning. Now you're right the risk factor in this is high.....if you're not prepared so I wouldn't go into theology really unless you're strong in the LORD.

And look coming from a guy who's grown in ministry and grown in my walk it's going to take being holy for you to make it. THe bible says peace with all men and holiness which without no man shall see the lord. The bible speaks against magic and sorcery, it's just what it is. If you don't want to make it to heaven that's only about 1,500 square miles then that's youre choice. Now i'm not saying cards will send you to hell but if you are kind of indifferent with every


2. In Lord of the rings I don't recall dragons being depicted as heroes in the books, I could be wrong... but if I recall the dragons were the enemy in Beowulf didn't he slay a dragon as well? I'm not sure how this has anything to do with books that support companionship with demons/dragons/ pagan Gods. Killing a dragon/demon/witch/bad thing is fine.


3. If you're so set on not getting rid of the cards then why ask people what they think about it??

Don't call discussion "cute". It's condescending and rude. And Beowulf himself was a pagan.

I didn't ask anyone what they thought about getting rid of the cards. The guy who posted the thread did. I'm discussing my view on it, which is that Christians destroying hobbies because "Pretend magic and dragons will surely lead to sacrificing a real goat in the name of Satan" is ridiculous. If your faith is so shaky that a playing card that says "turn three mountains sideways and deal three damage points to a creature" makes you turn away, then that seems to be more of a problem with yourself than with the card.

Also, in the lore of Magic, dragons and demons are both truly evil. If Beowulf's dragons get a pass because they aren't presented as the good guy, then so to MtG demons and dragons.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Cute excuse but you're missing the point.

1. Football in itself isn't bad, the cheerleaders are an add on that you can simply choose not to look at or have anything to do with. Now if you're not strong enough for that then don't go I guess, JEff Arnold a christian preacher doesn't go to them becuase of the cheerleaders and beer for example. With Yu-Gi and "magic" it's not like that, now sure in the card game you can simply get rid of all your demon/dragon cards.... but meh that's a lot of cards.

You make the point that a lot of people don't go to sports for cheerleaders and beer. I agree with that yet it seems the example also corresponds to the card game. Do people go to the card game because of the magic described in the card game or because they enjoy playing it? If the elements which are negative in sports should not automatically prohibit us from going to sports games why do the fantasy elements in card games prohibit us from playing them? One could argue that the elements accompanying both can lead to sin yet I don't know of many people who become Satan worshippers when they play a fantasy children's card game. On the other hand with sports, overzealous drinking and sexual temptation seem far more likely than with the possible negative results of playing a card game.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Don't call discussion "cute". It's condescending and rude. And Beowulf himself was a pagan.

I didn't ask anyone what they thought about getting rid of the cards. The guy who posted the thread did. I'm discussing my view on it, which is that Christians destroying hobbies because "Pretend magic and dragons will surely lead to sacrificing a real goat in the name of Satan" is ridiculous. If your faith is so shaky that a playing card that says "turn three mountains sideways and deal three damage points to a creature" makes you turn away, then that seems to be more of a problem with yourself than with the card.

Also, in the lore of Magic, dragons and demons are both truly evil. If Beowulf's dragons get a pass because they aren't presented as the good guy, then so to MtG demons and dragons.

Well it sounded cute And my bad I thought you were the OP cause both of you have replied to my post and got confused cause same profile pic and stuff.


Again this is why I stated I suggest you read and grow in your walk and mature in it before you really worry about this stuff becuase you don't understand satan's devices yet. You're assuming here that the reason i'm telling you to avoid demon cards/demon books etc. is because you will end up sacrificing a goat or turning to satanism and i'm shocked you would make such an assumption. You're better than this man you should know that anyone with common sense knows that Satanism isn't some widespread cult that someone randomly jumps into and I never even mentioned satanism or sacrifices in my comment.

What You need to understand is that the world has been cursed from the beginning, it was cursed in Genesis 3 which is why we have verse such as "love not the world" "trust no man" "world will fall away". It's dumb and ignorant for someone to think Satan just operates through flat out witchcraft,satanism, atheism. Satan also operates through, ignorance of his devices, books/movies that maybe display sin or open doorways for demonic infestation , lukewarmness, false doctrines/ "not enough time".

I'm not sure what MTG is but yeah... you misunderstood my comment clearly and just admit it. I wasn't' referring to shows/movies about defeating the bad guy...I was talking about things that have a narrative of siding with a bad guy or demons or dragons or witches. There are books that straight up have demons posed as being good.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

You make the point that a lot of people don't go to sports for cheerleaders and beer. I agree with that yet it seems the example also corresponds to the card game. Do people go to the card game because of the magic described in the card game or because they enjoy playing it? If the elements which are negative in sports should not automatically prohibit us from going to sports games why do the fantasy elements in card games prohibit us from playing them? One could argue that the elements accompanying both can lead to sin yet I don't know of many people who become Satan worshippers when they play a fantasy children's card game. On the other hand with sports, overzealous drinking and sexual temptation seem far more likely than with the possible negative results of playing a card game.

Now you make some great points t and one I forgot myself, some people go to sin/magic cards/horror movies about demons because they simply enjoy it not because of the sin/demons behind it. But the difference between the magic cards and football is that with the magic cards or ouija board or whatever, even if you just play it for fun...you can still unintentionally affect your spiritual life.

EX: Rappers sleep with a lot of women because they enjoy it not becuase of the demonic influence or sin behind it, in fact many say they love God right?


Now would I compare Yu-gi-o cards with certain other games out there no, but I'm just presenting what someone who's strong with God would avoid.


Powerful ministers,pastors,leaders would give you the same answer I have given in regards to avoiding anything that presents a demon as being good. It seems extreme but if you read about anyone who was used by God in the bible.....they were extreme. If one wants to simply be saved and that's it that's fine, but for me being one who wanted (and is) in ministry for a church I had to take these steps. I had to get rid of certain books and music and habits for God to continue to fill me and anoint me and I still continue this process of sanctification.





Lasstly as I told hte other guy I wasn't saying avoid cards/books/ horror movies or whatever becuase you could become a satan worshipper.... and that's sort of a way the devil tricks people nowadays. He's convinced many that as long as that thing doesn't cause you to turn away from God straight up you're good. But the motive God wants us to have is to not get weaker at all but rather strive to increase.

 

[LutheranGuy123]

Well it sounded cute And my bad I thought you were the OP cause both of you have replied to my post and got confused cause same profile pic and stuff.


Again this is why I stated I suggest you read and grow in your walk and mature in it before you really worry about this stuff becuase you don't understand satan's devices yet. You're assuming here that the reason i'm telling you to avoid demon cards/demon books etc. is because you will end up sacrificing a goat or turning to satanism and i'm shocked you would make such an assumption. You're better than this man you should know that anyone with common sense knows that Satanism isn't some widespread cult that someone randomly jumps into and I never even mentioned satanism or sacrifices in my comment.

What You need to understand is that the world has been cursed from the beginning, it was cursed in Genesis 3 which is why we have verse such as "love not the world" "trust no man" "world will fall away". It's dumb and ignorant for someone to think Satan just operates through flat out witchcraft,satanism, atheism. Satan also operates through, ignorance of his devices, books/movies that maybe display sin or open doorways for demonic infestation , lukewarmness, false doctrines/ "not enough time".

I'm not sure what MTG is but yeah... you misunderstood my comment clearly and just admit it. I wasn't' referring to shows/movies about defeating the bad guy...I was talking about things that have a narrative of siding with a bad guy or demons or dragons or witches. There are books that straight up have demons posed as being good.

Well there are many demons that exist in the Magic the Gathering multiverse. The least evil ones are the ones that have a grudge against other evil creatures and turn their focus away from the good guys momentarily. None of them are something someone would side with. Sure, you can build a deck where you use them to win, but why is that any different from pretending to be the bad guy in a play? Did the guys who played Mephistopheles in Faustus betray their faith to do so?

I know that you can be non-Christian without sacrificing goats to Satan. But you can also be a Christian while playing a game that happens to use artwork depicting demons. The man who created Dungeons and Dragons (which DOES contain good dragons) was a devout Christian and would recite scripture when asked about D&D. Was he being tricked by Satan?

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Well there are many demons that exist in the Magic the Gathering multiverse. The least evil ones are the ones that have a grudge against other evil creatures and turn their focus away from the good guys momentarily. None of them are something someone would side with. Sure, you can build a deck where you use them to win, but why is that any different from pretending to be the bad guy in a play? Did the guys who played Mephistopheles in Faustus betray their faith to do so?

I know that you can be non-Christian without sacrificing goats to Satan. But you can also be a Christian while playing a game that happens to use artwork depicting demons. The man who created Dungeons and Dragons (which DOES contain good dragons) was a devout Christian and would recite scripture when asked about D&D. Was he being tricked by Satan?

Again I feel i've made a bigger deal of what cards/books can do in the thread. My pastor for example used to be into the greek God stuff and he said it caused him to sort of contemplate and look into that stuff and sort of lose focus on the one true God when he was younger. For myself reading books and playing games like DOD caused me to even.... eh how do you put it...even feel it would be cooler to have a world like those games back when I was playing around 14 or 15 or so then the one we have now with JESUS as God. Now another thing the bible indicates we can walk in truth and not in spirit the pharisees walked in TRUTH alone for example. But anyway in regards to the DOD guy I can't say cause I don't know him, but I can say from experience...games like that aren't of God. I noticed before I left mmorpgs around 15 or so that they started making the females more sexual as well to sort of entice males to play the games.

I didn't explain it well but that's what i'm referring to, books/movies giving the enemy control of your mind. It's kind of like with music, I used to listen to rap/hip hop a lot and it caused me to cus and look at girls I talked to in a more... dismissive light. But I noticed when I switched to gospel and christian rap and such and just instrumentals my whole view has changed and so has my lanquage. Friends always comment now about how I don't cus, or when they think they heard me say a cus word they are like.. "mike did you cus?" and i'm like no I said so and so, and then they are like "man I was gonna say I've never heard you cus."




But music is more powerful then a game/cards satan himself was the angel over music and thus he's stronger in that area. Now when it comes to being a bad guy in a play that depends on the play just like with the book. There are plays churches have on easter for example where someone is dressed as Satan but satan is defeated in the play. Just like with books/movies there are options like with marvel movies where the enemy is defeated per say. But overall you can only do so much again in regards to what kids are taught in school as well i'm not advocating pull yourself out of everything, just what you can. If you have an alternative to a certain book or a horror movie then go for it is all i'm advocating.

But with cards there are alternative options that I would point out like Pokemon for example IDK what else they have now because i'm 20 at this point and no longer into that stuff.


But yeah man don't stress or panic about what I stated just if you have him inside let the holy spirit guide you. I'm also sorry if I offended you in anyway, i'm a rather blunt individual at times. But yeah just do what I did, keep studying, seek God like crazy, and he will open your eyes to things. Make sure you don't just go off what your parents say cause that doesn't help much trust me. You must find out for yourself and as you read scripture and grow your eyes will be opened to the world we live in and you'll sort of understand how someone like JESUS could be killed you'll realize most of the world doesn't have JESUS on their agenda.

God bless man.

 

[Thrash Metalhead]

The only thing evil about mtg is the amount of money you have to spend to build a competitive deck. It's like cardboard crack and you can't get enough.

 

[RabbiMike]

The only thing evil about mtg is the amount of money you have to spend to build a competitive deck. It's like cardboard crack and you can't get enough.

LOL That's precisely why I never got that much into it. I was putting myself through college at the time and couldn't afford much more than a starter deck. But again, the potential money-sink is a problem that pretty much every hobby has.

Shalom

 

[RabbiMike]

Those who warn about a game somehow blurring the line between fantasy and reality and becoming a source of obsession are the very ones who are obsessed with ignoring the difference between pretend "magic" and real-life occultism.

Shalom

 

[HawgWyld]

I hadn't really been collecting Magic: The Gathering cards for too long but I do have a lot of cards, as well as Yu-Gi-Oh! cards (another questionable game that involves magic) and a few other card games. I've come to the conclusion playing or collecting these cards isn't of God and I stopped playing the game a couple of months back, but what to do with all the cards I have is a question I don't really have an answer to.

There's a couple of options. I could of course sell the cards or give them away. The only problem is I could help someone else get more engrossed in the game if I give the cards away or sell them. This is why I have been considering throwing the cards away so no one gets more engrossed into a game about magic.

What do you guys think? Should I sell, give away the cards, or throw them away?

An evil game? Nah. At least, I don't think so (but I don't want to make light of what you have to say about whether the game is evil). I'd sell the cards and get your money out of them. Make sure to tithe your profits, though (and I'm not kidding about that, either).

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

You think that real-world necromancy involves drawing mana from swampland that you own? Or that manipulating flame involves controlling mountains?

You intentionally cut off and left out the rest of my post. I also said:

For instance, the card Divination allows one to draw 2 cards. In reality divination is seeking knowledge of the future, and the card in the game simulates what REAL divination is like. The same goes with the scry mechanic. Scrying is an occult practice and one simulates scrying in the game.

I gave a specific example, and if you play MTG you should know there are plenty of other examples of this in the game. If you like the game that's fine, I liked the game and collecting the cards as well, that doesn't change the fact that the game simulates magic. If you want to find some way to ignore the fact that the game has ties to occultism that's fine, just don't manipulate my posts to justify it to yourself.

 

[archer75]

I gave a specific example, and if you play MTG you should know there are plenty of other examples of this in the game. If you like the game that's fine, I liked the game and collecting the cards as well, that doesn't change the fact that the game simulates magic. If you want to find some way to ignore the fact that the game has ties to occultism that's fine, just don't manipulate my posts to justify it to yourself.

But there's no real "scrying." It's hard to say that a game mechanic that allows you to peek at cards simulates something that doesn't exist.

If the game mechanic gave you nonphysical sight that allowed you to look at the cards without...looking at them -- then okay, I would see what you mean. But it's just a rule that lets you physically look at the cards.

Again, I'm not telling you to keep playing the game if you don't want it. But I wonder, what if the card were just called "Peek at opponent's cards"? Would you still feel that it simulated magic because in principle, non-real magic could be used to see something you otherwise wouldn't be able to see? I don't mean to ask this sarcastically.

It seems that more than one person on the thread is saying "well, it's not really about magic, that's just a name (kind of) for certain game mechanics that are just about pushing cards and points around, like many other games." Your objection seems to be that it simulates "real" magic and therefore has "ties to occultism."

I wonder where this magic is - real magic - that we could see and verify that the game simulates it. I don't think it exists, so I don't think the game can "simulate" it. It's flavor-text.

And for the record, I don't like the game, I find it boring and found it boring in the 90s when I (in my opinion) wasted a few bucks on a starter pack. So I'm not defending the game, and would be perfectly happy if it went away.

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

Again, this is an objection that ONLY seems to come up in geek interests, whether RPGs, computer gaming, anime, or what-have-you. When you start warning the preps and jocks about the inherently addictive nature of their particular sub-culture, then you might be even-handed in your warnings. Until then, you're coming across as, "I don't get it, so it must be EEEEEEEVIIIIILLLLL!"

Remember, the Gospel is first to the Jew, and then to the geek. The rest of you are an after-thought.

Shalom.

Matthew 3:9-10 states:

9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.…

This means that all those who want to go on in their wicked ways will be the true afterthought to God. Also, as soon as you provide DNA testing proving you're from the direct line of Abraham I'll believe you. Oh wait, no one knows because no one has Abraham's DNA so please get off that high horse.

To add to that, no one is attacking "geek-culture". You're more worried about your precious "geek-culture" then what the bible says. These are just stupid cards, yeah I liked playing the card game but at the end of the day if I'm summoning a demon in the game it's at odds with what really matters, God.

A sport is NOT the same as summoning a demon in a video game, card game, or on a television screen. This has nothing to do with preps or jocks. Yes, sports can lead people to put attention into the wrong things but it does not cause them to cast spells or use magic like in MTG or Yu-Gi-Oh!.

 

[archer75]

To add to that, no one is attacking "geek-culture". You're more worried about your precious "geek-culture" then what the bible says. These are just stupid cards, yeah I liked playing the card game but at the end of the day if I'm summoning a demon in the game it's at odds with what really matters, God.

If you're so sure about this, I don't see why you started the thread.

Good luck with whatever you do, but I say as I said before -- I think you should seek pastoral or psychological care regarding your apparent belief in the semi-reality of these elements of the card game.

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

If you're so sure about this, I don't see why you started the thread.

Good luck with whatever you do, but I say as I said before -- I think you should seek pastoral or psychological care regarding your apparent belief in the semi-reality of these elements of the card game.

Even in my opening I said:

I hadn't really been collecting Magic: The Gathering cards for too long but I do have a lot of cards, as well as Yu-Gi-Oh! cards (another questionable game that involves magic) and a few other card games. I've come to the conclusion playing or collecting these cards isn't of God and I stopped playing the game a couple of months back, but what to do with all the cards I have is a question I don't really have an answer to.

 

[archer75]

Even in my opening I said:

Yep, you did. I should have checked back. Apologies for that.

Well, in that case, it seems you have your answers.

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

But there's no real "scrying." It's hard to say that a game mechanic that allows you to peek at cards simulates something that doesn't exist.

If the game mechanic gave you nonphysical sight that allowed you to look at the cards without...looking at them -- then okay, I would see what you mean. But it's just a rule that lets you physically look at the cards.

Of course, a person isn't REALLY scrying. This is obvious. The game simulates scrying as it would be done in real life if one was really into magic. The game mechanic is NOT going to give you non-physical sight, the person playing isn't using real magic they're playing a game that's simulating it.

The same for war games. A real war is not taking place only a staged one.

Again, I'm not telling you to keep playing the game if you don't want it. But I wonder, what if the card were just called "Peek at opponent's cards"? Would you still feel that it simulated magic because in principle, non-real magic could be used to see something you otherwise wouldn't be able to see? I don't mean to ask this sarcastically.

The name of the game is Magic: The Gathering so a card or mechanic with that name would NOT fit the game. But if all the occult exterior were stripped away I would not have a problem with the game.

It seems that more than one person on the thread is saying "well, it's not really about magic, that's just a name (kind of) for certain game mechanics that are just about pushing cards and points around, like many other games." Your objection seems to be that it simulates "real" magic and therefore has "ties to occultism."

I wonder where this magic is - real magic - that we could see and verify that the game simulates it. I don't think it exists, so I don't think the game can "simulate" it. It's flavor-text.

My counter argument is NOT "therefore it has ties to occultism" because it simulates real magic. The game DOES have ties to occultism. Just look at some of the mechanics, artwork, and card names in the game. Scrying, divination, each card played is "casting a spell", there are even cards with "occultist" right in the name. It's a verifiable fact that the game promotes, and has ties to occultism.

If you don't think magic is real then you must not be a strong bible believer. As I mentioned to another poster in this very thread magic was depicted as REAL in the bible multiple times.

Exodus 17:11-12

11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

12 For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.

The Egyptian sorcerers completed all the feats that Aaron and Moses did if I'm remembering correctly. This is only one example of magic in the bible amongst a whole slew of other proofs of magic in the bible.

Funny thing is if the game mechanics of MTG were replaced with names of sexual acts, I have a feel more people would be outraged. But the dangers of magic have been swept under the rug in my opinion.

 

[archer75]

Of course, a person isn't REALLY scrying. This is obvious. The game simulates scrying as it would be done in real life if one was really into magic. The game mechanic is NOT going to give you non-physical sight, the person playing isn't using real magic they're playing a game that's simulating it.

I meant there's no real-life scrying to compare it to. Not that there's no game-scrying, which obviously there is, as you said - it involves looking at the cards.

A wargame can simulate actual wars, because wars are real and observable. But there's no real scrying in the world (except by technology).

Sure, the Egyptian magicians did their snake tricks and so on. But there's no scrying IN THE WORLD that we can observe and say "these people are doing scrying with a crystal ball, and it works." If you believe that occultists are running around doing that, that's fine and I won't argue. But I don't see what some court magicians doing snake tricks has to do with claims of efficacious real-world "magic" today.

It's a verifiable fact that the game promotes, and has ties to occultism.

Here, again, I have to disagree. Yes, such names are present in the game, but I wouldn't call that "ties." To me, "ties" suggests "actual connection to." And there's no evidence of that except these words, which I guess are evidence to you and not to me. I'd say even more strongly that the statement "It's a verifiable fact that the game promotes...occultism." is misleading. How can this "fact" be verified? The game, as far as I know, promotes buying more cards and playing the game. What aspect of the game encourages someone to go "do stuff" other than just play the game? You said this is a verifiable fact -- how has it been verified?

 

[GirdYourLoins]

OP, sounds to me like you have a bit of an issue with it, otherwise you wouldnt put it on here. If you feel there is an issue with these cards its probably best to get rid of them.

And as for the subject of is magic real, modern witches cast spells to influence the spirit of other people, put curses on them and things like that. I have heard of stories of people being struck down with illnesses and dying from modern magic (cant prove if its actually true one way or the other) and other things like that. Its spiritual warfare for the enemy.

 

[archer75]

Right, can't say it's true. I could say that my toothbrush gives me investment advice, but in the absence of evidence for this investment-advising toothbrush, most people would say I was lying or crazy. I have seen no evidence for such "magical" things in today's world and therefore do not believe in them.