Is magic moral?

[Zakath]

I'm not finding it but I'm sure he was the guy who invented the virtual machine concept.. He is considered the Gandfarther of computers, but does not tie the origins to him, Pascal created the first mechanical adding device, see here: http://kosmoi.com/Computer/History/
"Babbage never saw any of his machines completed".

Here you go...

The calculating engines of English mathematician Charles Babbage (1791-1871) are among the most celebrated icons in the prehistory of computing. Babbage’s Difference Engine No.1 was the first successful automatic calculator and remains one of the finest examples of precision engineering of the time. Babbage is sometimes referred to as "father of computing." The Charles Babbage Foundation took his name to honor his intellectual contributions and their relation to modern computers...

http://www.cbi.umn.edu/exhibits/cb.html

Also language is considered an Art, yet you look up it's definition.

Actually I looked up the definition for mathematics, not language.

Ahh what you stated your perspective is, was what I was looking for.

Happy to oblige.

 

[Zakath]

sad thing is that you will never know what "Alternative medicine" offers more then placebos...

Sure we will. That's what clinical trials are supposed to do, demonstrate that a procedure or protocol actually has the effect claimed by its supporters.

... according to medicinal science dsylexia is meant to be incurible.
if that was so then you would not be able to understand this message because I was disgnosed with severe dyslexia and I use to only be able to spell three letter words correct at age 8...
..

I'm sorry for your personal troubles, but dyslexia is generally considered to be treatable. For instance, one of my children is dyslexic and is now working on her graduate degree...

Whether it's curable or not depends on what is causing it...

I am able to communicate on a "normal" level thanks to the work of a world renowned chriopracter.

So, in your case, the dyslexia was a symptom of an underlying nerve problem. When the nerve issue was dealt with, the dyslexic symptoms were reduced. That's how medicine is supposed to work - by producing results in patients. I have no problem with some chiropractic practices. They work.

Some of the drivel that's put out by a few chiropractors give the entire group a black eye.

Also that website doesn't mention "classical" homeopathy, much different from the crappy 5 day courses people do then claim they are homeopaths.

Homeopathic medications have also been demonstrated to be no more effective than placebos or random chance and the clinical trials during the last half of the twentieth century have been inconclusive and contradictory.

In 1990, an article in Review of Epidemiology analyzed 40 randomized trials that had compared homeopathic treatment with standard treatment, a placebo, or no treatment. The authors concluded that all but three of the trials had major flaws in their design and that only one of those three had reported a positive result. The authors concluded that there is no evidence that homeopathic treatment has any more value than a placebo...

The National Council Against Health Fraud has warned that "the sectarian nature of homeopathy raises serious questions about the trustworthiness of homeopathic researchers." Source

 

[kopilo]

Sure we will. That's what clinical trials are supposed to do, demonstrate that a procedure or protocol actually has the effect claimed by its supporters.

I'm sorry for your personal troubles, but dyslexia is generally considered to be treatable. For instance, one of my children is dyslexic and is now working on her graduate degree...

Whether it's curable or not depends on what is causing it...

After diagnosis we were told it was incurible.

So, in your case, the dyslexia was a symptom of an underlying nerve problem. When the nerve issue was dealt with, the dyslexic symptoms were reduced. That's how medicine is supposed to work - by producing results in patients. I have no problem with some chiropractic practices. They work.

Well apparently what is was is the left and right brain did not share enough connections, so in a way that is the nervs, ( I went through chiropractic work and brain gym).

Some of the drivel that's put out by a few chiropractors give the entire group a black eye.

too true, I'm annoyed at myself for not remembering his last name, but Dr Rezza was known in the US and Australia, for his work, I was asked to be in the book..

Homeopathic medications have also been demonstrated to be no more effective than placebos or random chance and the clinical trials during the last half of the twentieth century have been inconclusive and contradictory.

Once again those clinical trials tested non classical homeopathy, anything homeopathic written with "cold and flu" or anything to treat symptoms I find questionable. Also homeopathic remedies are meant to be kept away from electronics and in cool places..

Eitherway for "worms", wormwood + withania, is proberly going to be your best bet.

Besides the water dilutions, homeopathy is meant to be treating the symptom with the symptom, similar to how snake bites are dealt with.

 

[Zakath]

After diagnosis we were told it was incurible.

Since you're cured, either the person who told you that meant it was incurable with the medical knowledge they had available, or they were wrong.

Medical personnel are not infallible, and real scientists can admit they were wrong. (Though, being human, they may hate to do it.)

Well apparently what is was is the left and right brain did not share enough connections, so in a way that is the nervs, (so I went through a process mixing chiropractic work with brain gym).

Are you describing a defect of your corpus callosum?

Once again those clinical trials tested non classical homeopathy, anything homeopathic written with "cold and flu" or anything to treat symptoms I find questionable.

Then why haven't the "classical" homeopaths produced their own clinical trials to validate their claims? Go check the literature and let me know when you find some...

Also homeopathic remedies are meant to be kept away from electronics and in cool places. Eitherway for "worms", wormwood + withania, is proberly going to be your best bet.

OK, sure...

And why would a tincture of wormwood and withania be reactive to low-level electromagnetic fields?

 

[kopilo]

Since you're cured, either the person who told you that meant it was incurable with the medical knowledge they had available, or they were wrong.

Medical personnel are not infallible, and real scientists can admit they were wrong. (Though, being human, they may hate to do it.)

Are you describing a defect of your corpus callosum?

Not sure (sounds right though), something to do with "nural pathways" between the left and right hemisphere.

Then why haven't the "classical" homeopaths produced their own clinical trials to validate their claims? Go check the literature and let me know when you find some...

Any clinical trials done by people who are not considered to be apart of the medicine field tend to be ignored. Also
some organisations do not like that idea, because it would stop 5 day courses at around $2000 each being sold, so without authorisation some people prefer to keep their jobs.

And why would a tincture of wormwood and withania be reactive to low-level electromagnetic fields?

Nothing to do with low level EMS, however from the artical one of the test was done on worms, it goes with the last statement about snake bites.

 

[Zakath]

Not sure (sounds right though), something to do with "nural pathways" between the left and right hemisphere.

Neural pathways between the hemispheres of the brain pass through a link called the corpus callosum...

Any clinical trials done by people who are not considered to be apart of the medicine field tend to be ignored.

If you're going to argue about medicine and science, you have to be willing to give specific examples. So show us some clinical trials that were done and ignored...

Also some organisations do not like that idea, because it would stop 5 day courses at around $2000 each being sold, so without authorisation some people prefer to keep their jobs.

Can you cut out the vague innuendo (some organizations, some people) and cite some specific examples, please?

Nothing to do with low level EMS, however from the artical one of the test was done on worms, it goes with the last statement about snake bites.

What test are you talking about? Citation please...

 

[LittleNipper]

Magic does not exist-----will does.

 

[ravenscape]

And mathematics is a branch of science, no?

No, mathematics is not a branch of science.

 

[Zakath]

No, mathematics is not a branch of science.

Not a branch, but a science. If you don't agree, go argue with the folks at Princeton, then.

mathematics - noun
a science (or group of related sciences) dealing with the logic of quantity and shape and arrangement
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

 

[Zakath]

Magic does not exist-----will does.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Love is the law, love under will.

- A. Crowley

 

[ravenscape]

Not a branch, but a science. If you don't agree, go argue with the folks at Princeton, then.

mathematics - noun
a science (or group of related sciences) dealing with the logic of quantity and shape and arrangement
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

You contradict yourself, first calling mathematics "a branch of science" and now calling it "a science"

This brings into play a completely different definition of science than the one "a branch of science" infers.

Mathematics is a science. under definition 2. It is not a branch of science under definition 1.

sci·ence (s

ns)
n. 1. a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
5. Science Christian Science.


Im glad we've got that cleared up

 

[Zakath]

You contradict yourself, first calling mathematics "a branch of science" and now calling it "a science".

This brings into play a completely different definition of science than the one "a branch of science" infers.

Mathematics is a science...

I think what I did is called "clarifying my point" or , if you prefer, "correcting an error".

I've never claimed to be infallible. I leave stuff like that to the religionists.

Im glad we've got that cleared up

Good.

 

[LittleNipper]

You contradict yourself, first calling mathematics "a branch of science" and now calling it "a science"

This brings into play a completely different definition of science than the one "a branch of science" infers.

Mathematics is a science. under definition 2. It is not a branch of science under definition 1.

sci·ence (s

ns)
n. 1. a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.

2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
5. Science Christian Science.


Im glad we've got that cleared up

So if EVOLUTION does not fit mathamatical logic then EVOLUTION is not scientific ---- is that what you mean?

 

[ravenscape]

So if EVOLUTION does not fit mathamatical logic then EVOLUTION is not scientific ---- is that what you mean?

Pardon me, but WHERE in my posts did you get that from?

Mathematics is NOT the study of phenomena, natural or unnatural. Math is based on logic, not on observation and experimental investigation.

 

[TheGMan]

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Love is the law, love under will.

- A. Crowley

At least on the first line, he was paraphrasing Rabelais.

 

[ravenscape]

I think what I did is called "clarifying my point" or , if you prefer, "correcting an error".

I've never claimed to be infallible. I leave stuff like that to the religionists.

Good.

My apologies. From my perspective, it appeared you changed horses in midstream, switching your assertion for a correct one, while implying that I disagreed with it. I might have gotten this impression due to your suggestion that I take up with Princeton a definition that I agree with, but that happens not to fit your original statement about regarding math being a branch of science.

 

[Zakath]

At least on the first line, he was paraphrasing Rabelais.

Crowley was nothing if not an equal opportunity eclectic.

 

[Zakath]

My apologies. From my perspective, it appeared you changed horses in midstream, switching your assertion for a correct one, while implying that I disagreed with it. I might have gotten this impression due to your suggestion that I take up with Princeton a definition that I agree with, but that happens not to fit your original statement about regarding math being a branch of science.

Thank you.

 

[kopilo]

hmm I see I have stirred some disturbances with some off topic discussion,
so firstly thankyou ravenscape for clarifying the definition.

Secondly with the topic of magik, if someone believed that they were not the force behind a potion (or whatever) and yet if they were to claim they were, would that be immoral?

 

[Zakath]

hmm I see I have stirred some disturbances with some off topic discussion,
so firstly thankyou ravenscape for clarifying the definition.

Secondly with the topic of magik, if someone believed that they were not the force behind a potion (or whatever) and yet if they were to claim they were, would that be immoral?

Merely taking credit for an act of nature is not always immoral. I think it would depend on why they were making such a claim. If it was to harm another or to garner reputation or money at the expense of others, then I believe it is immoral.