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Is logic part of creation?

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tonychanyt

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For this discussion, I'd include formal math and logic as part of wisdom.

Proverbs 8:

1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
Click to expand...
Wisdom was personified.

22 “The Lord brought me forth [H7069, qanah] as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;
Click to expand...
This Hebrew word is different from the one in Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created [H1254, bara] the heavens and the earth.
Click to expand...
Proverbs 8 continues:

23 I was formed [H5258, nacak] long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
Click to expand...
Wisdom was given birth before the world existed. In fact, it played a role in the creation, Proverbs 3:

19 By wisdom the Lord laid the earth’s foundations,
by understanding he set the heavens in place;
Click to expand...
Wisdom existed before the heavens and earth.

Is logic part of creation?

Yes, in the sense that we humans have access to logic.

Did God create logic?

No, not in the sense of h1254-bara in Genesis 1.
Yes, in the sense that it was H5258-formed before the existence of heavens and earth.

See also

 
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Mark Quayle

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tonychanyt said:
Did God create logic?

No, not in the sense of bara in Genesis 1. Logic is an uncreated reflection of God's rational nature.
Click to expand...

Do we have any way to say that the principles by which the universe operates are NOT created, but are rather only reflections of God's nature?

The way I see it, the notion you express above makes him exist only because he already does, which is somewhat less than being self-existent.

But as you said, this is quite a ways beyond us. The words turns us on our heads, which is where my cowlick comes from.
 
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tonychanyt

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Mark Quayle said:
Do we have any way to say that the principles by which the universe operates are NOT created, but are rather only reflections of God's nature?
Click to expand...
I believe the laws of Physics were created or chosen by God while pure logic (as part of wisdom) was uncreated
 
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Mark Quayle

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tonychanyt said:
I believe the laws of Physics were created or chosen by God while pure logic (as part of wisdom) was uncreated
Click to expand...
At least, then, I expect you would agree that it does not control God, but is simply the way he is, the way he does —not a separate principle from himself.

See, I have heard, several times, I think, someone claiming there is no such thing as time, it being only our noticing a sequence of events. And while I can allow for that, it is, nevertheless, a working principle by which we define what we notice. Sequence of fact, however, (and not events), is a different question. Causation is one of the premises from which logical deductions are made. It, too, is either God-made or simple uncreated fact. I have to think of it as God-made, and, in fact, I say the same for all reality. But, just HOW they are made, is not the same sort of creation, I think.

Anyhow, thanks. This is fun.
 
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RamiC

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tonychanyt said:
1. Logic is an uncreated reflection of God's rational nature.
Click to expand...
This.

I have been known to buy mathematical puzzles to refine/train my mind to improve focus on prayer because of this.
 
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tonychanyt

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Mark Quayle said:
At least, then, I expect you would agree that it does not control God, but is simply the way he is, the way he does —not a separate principle from himself.
Click to expand...
Right.
Mark Quayle said:
See, I have heard, several times, I think, someone claiming there is no such thing as time,
Click to expand...
Time can be physically measured. It is physically real.


Good point

Mark Quayle said:
It, too, is either God-made or simple uncreated fact. I have to think of it as God-made, and, in fact, I say the same for all reality.
Click to expand...
What about the reality of Godhead/Divinity? What about the reality of love?
 
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Mark Quayle

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tonychanyt said:
What about the reality of Godhead/Divinity? What about the reality of love?
Click to expand...
God-made, in our experience of it, and OF his nature. I would not hesitate to acknowledge that it is also his very nature.
 
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RamiC

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I just saw this, it is a well known blog among Christians in my country, written by a Priest from my church,

"My blog is called Psephizo, using the Greek verb meaning ‘to calculate’, ‘work out’ or ‘reckon’—my American friends might translate this as ‘go figure’ or ‘do the math’. The word only occurs twice in the New Testament, once in Luke 14.28 in his version of Jesus’ warning to reckon the cost of discipleship before embarking on it, and in Rev 13.18 (seen here in Codex Sinaiticus) perhaps the most notorious verse in the Bible! It is related to the word psephos meaning ‘pebble’, which would have been used to do such calculations, and also occurs only in Luke and Revelation (suggesting a surprising link between the two texts, supported by other links), being the ‘white stone with a new name’ in Rev 2.17."

About | Psephizo

It is not a direct answer to the OP, but I thought it might be entertaining for those involved in this thread.
 
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Mark Quayle

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tonychanyt said:
Are you saying that God made God?
Click to expand...
Definitely not! He simply IS. He is the only Brute Fact (default fact). He didn't cause himself either. (Nor should it be said that he didn't cause himself—the whole notion is plain bogus.)
 
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JEBofChristTheLord

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Is logic part of creation?
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The word "logic" means "of words". The words of God are good, and He is the only one, who is good. When everyone walking around Jesus tried to use so-called "logical reasoning", He delivered very differently than they.

So. Enough freedom to use words in ways that are not good, is part of Creation.
 
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