Is Jesus The Son of God?

[April_Rose]

I know that this is a ridiculous question because the obvious answer is yes He is. Although it seems like that a lot of people don't believe that and think that the Father and the Son are the exactly the same being and person. Which even though they are alike they are not the same because even Jesus refers to the creator as being His Father and prays to Him. He couldn't pray to Himself. So I just had to make this topic to make that perfectly clear. Jesus is the Son of God and Joseph is His step-father. I've known this even before I turned double digits.

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus is the Son of God and Joseph is His step-father.

IMO a more thorough wording would be more like, "Jesus is the only begotten son of God the Father."

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

And Mary is a surrogate mother, God doesn't have a mother.
Before you start the heated discussion please look for a bible verse that says "Mary was free of original sin".

 

[Hmm]

A step-father is someone who marries a woman who has a child/children from another man so Joseph is not Jesus's step-father and nor would he feel that he is.

 

[ewq1938]

And Mary is a surrogate mother, God doesn't have a mother.

A surrogate mother would have the egg of another woman so Mary was not a surrogate. I agree with you that she is not the mother of God as God is not created or born. She birthed the human flesh God the Son would inhabit for his Earthly life. This makes him 100 percent man (via Mary) and also 100 percent God (via the Father)

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Joseph is not Jesus's step-father and nor would he feel that he is.

Then how did Joseph feel raising a child he didn't father? Joseph knew it's not his own child.

 

[ewq1938]

A step-father is someone who marries a woman who has a child/children from another man so Joseph is not Jesus's step-father and nor would he feel that he is.

He is a step Father simply because he is not the child's biological father.

 

[RushMAN]

I know that this is a ridiculous question because the obvious answer is yes He is. Although it seems like that a lot of people don't believe that and think that the Father and the Son are the exactly the same being and person. Which even though they are alike they are not the same because even Jesus refers to the creator as being His Father and prays to Him. He couldn't pray to Himself. So I just had to make this topic to make that perfectly clear. Jesus is the Son of God and Joseph is His step-father. I've known this even before I turned double digits.

Jesus is the Son of God as you know and Jesus is also God. Jesus is the same essence as the Father as John 1:1-2 says

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

A surrogate mother would have the egg of another woman so Mary was not a surrogate.

But that's exactly what happened. Mary didn't receive the embryo in a natural way, God (the Holy Spirit) planted an embryo into her womb, like into a surrogate mother. I am 100% certain that Jesus did not have Mary's DNA. You see, the Catholics claim that Mary had no original sin, because if she did they say Jesus must've had it, too. But the Bible says clearly that Mary did have original sin, so how did Jesus have it not then? It makes a thousand times more sense and is also in agreement with the Bible that the embryo God planted into Mary's womb was completely independent of Mary, with a different DNA and not received in any biological way. That's how Jesus didn't have original sin.

 

[RushMAN]

. But the Bible says clearly that Mary did have original sin

Where? I would like to know.

 

[ewq1938]

But that's exactly what happened.

The bible does not support that conclusion as Jesus was Mary's first child.

 

[April_Rose]

And Mary is a surrogate mother, God doesn't have a mother.
Before you start the heated discussion please look for a bible verse that says "Mary was free of original sin".

Yes that is true that God the spirit does not have a mother but Mary was indeed the mother of Jesus.

A step-father is someone who marries a woman who has a child/children from another man so Joseph is not Jesus's step-father and nor would he feel that he is.

Well he certainly isn't His biological father.

Jesus is the Son of God as you know and Jesus is also God. Jesus is the same essence as the Father as John 1:1-2 says

Yes but He and the Father are the same yet different and this is the point that I've been trying to get a crossed.

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

Where? I would like to know.

When you read the story of Jesus' birth you will find that Mary was a completely normal person. Look at Lk 1:29: "Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be". Apparently she had never met an angel before; nowhere in the whole Bible is any indication that she's had an encounter with God before or that God had removed her original sin in any way. Quite the opposite: the angel says "you have found favor with God". He doesn't say "you had found favor with God [and He made you special years ago by removing your original sin]", no, his words indicate that the whole plan of God using Mary starts only right now. Mary was an "average" young girl, if I may say so, and only at this point her life changed, when the angel announced that she'll receive a child. No word about her being holy or pure, no word about her not having original sin because she was born in a natural way herself. You find the same in Mary's own words (Lk 1:46-48) when she acknowledges that she actually isn't anything special but God uses her nevertheless.
And this is what you see throughout the entire Bible: God uses the normal, average people! Those who are nothing special.
Lastly there is also the logical argument for Mary having original sin. Why did God have to become a human being to die for our sins? Because He wanted to? No, but because it had to be a sinless person! If Mary was holy, without original sin, then God didn't have to die. Mary could have died for our sins then. Jesus only had to be born and die for us because there is not a single sinless human on this earth. Why not a single one? Because all humans have original sin. If Mary didn't have it then Jesus' whole mission was needless.

The bible does not support that conclusion as Jesus was Mary's first child.

How does it matter whether it was the first or not-first child?

Yes that is true that God the spirit does not have a mother but Mary was indeed the mother of Jesus.

She was the one carrying out the baby, yes. That's pretty much all the Bible says about her. How does it contradict the conclusion of Mary being a surrogate mother?

 

[RushMAN]

When you read the story of Jesus' birth you will find that Mary was a completely normal person. Look at Lk 1:29: "Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be". Apparently she had never met an angel before; nowhere in the whole Bible is any indication that she's had an encounter with God before or that God had removed her original sin in any way. Quite the opposite: the angel says "you have found favor with God". He doesn't say "you had found favor with God [and He made you special years ago by removing your original sin]", no, his words indicate that the whole plan of God using Mary starts only right now. Mary was an "average" young girl, if I may say so, and only at this point her life changed, when the angel announced that she'll receive a child. No word about her being holy or pure, no word about her not having original sin because she was born in a natural way herself. You find the same in Mary's own words (Lk 1:46-48) when she acknowledges that she actually isn't anything special but God uses her nevertheless.
And this is what you see throughout the entire Bible: God uses the normal, average people! Those who are nothing special.
Lastly there is also the logical argument for Mary having original sin. Why did God have to become a human being to die for our sins? Because He wanted to? No, but because it had to be a sinless person! If Mary was holy, without original sin, then God didn't have to die. Mary could have died for our sins then. Jesus only had to be born and die for us because there is not a single sinless human on this earth. Why not a single one? Because all humans have original sin. If Mary didn't have it then Jesus' whole mission was needless.

Oh okay, so nowhere.

 

[April_Rose]

How does it matter whether it was the first or not-first child?



She was the one carrying out the baby, yes. That's pretty much all the Bible says about her. How does it contradict the conclusion of Mary being a surrogate mother?

First of all I've been reading more and more about Jesus actually being the one to create the universe so admittingly I could be wrong, but I still say that I believe that He and the Father are the different but same.






Second of all the Bible does state that Jesus was Mary's firstborn child in Luke 2:7. Thirdly, I guess you could be right since Jesus was a virgin birth so it's possible.

 

[plain jayne]

Where? I would like to know.

Romans 3:10 = "As it is written, 'there is no one good, no not one'..." None means none.

Romans 3:23 = "For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God." All means all.

 

[Albion]

She was the one carrying out the baby, yes. That's pretty much all the Bible says about her. How does it contradict the conclusion of Mary being a surrogate mother?

Both Isaiah 7:14 and Luke 1:31 state that a virgin shall conceive. It does not tell us that God planted a tiny embryo in Mary's womb for her to carry.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

IMO a more thorough wording would be more like, "Jesus is the only begotten son of God the Father."

And what could that mean since they are both eternal and "begotten" is a completed action?

 

[Sabertooth]

Although it seems like that a lot of people don't believe that and think that the Father and the Son are the exactly the same being and person. Which even though they are alike they are not the same because even Jesus refers to the creator as being His Father and prays to Him. He couldn't pray to Himself.

Trinity is beyond our comprehension. We just have to accept what seems like contradictory statements until we see Hims.

Then how did Joseph feel raising a child he didn't father? Joseph knew it's not his own child.

At first, Joseph thought Mary had been unfaithful, but God confirmed to him that Jesus was the Messiah, and he got on board with raising Him.

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows:
After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph,
before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying,

'Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife,
for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.' " Matthew 1:18-20 NKJV​

Joseph's Song (Michael Card, 1988)

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

First of all I've been reading more and more about Jesus actually being the one to create the universe so admittingly I could be wrong, but I still say that I believe that He and the Father are the different but same.

Second of all the Bible does state that Jesus was Mary's firstborn child in Luke 2:7. Thirdly, I guess you could be right since Jesus was a virgin birth so it's possible.

"Different but same" is a pretty good description [although I guess only those who know the Bible well can make sense of it].
Also, I'm not trying to sound as if I got the only right explanation, but what I tried to explain above makes infinitely more sense to me than something that is not mentioned in the Bible whatsoever. Especially when you think about the utter unimportance of Mary in the Bible. After Jesus' birth she is rarely even mentioned. Of course she was a necessary component of God's plan of salvation, but salvation itself started with Jesus, not Mary.