Is it wrong to only want to marry a Virgin

High Fidelity · May 18, 2015

I think what's most difficult for us as humans is that we categorise sin.

I personally struggle to see the sin of pre-marital sex as the same as the sin of getting drunk, lying etc and I trust most people feel similarly.

Having pre-marital sex then, under that view, is a pretty significant demonstration against your professed faith. To favour the flesh to that extent more than what we profess to believe and hold to.

By my own standards I am a sinner by having that opinion and I am not trying to justify it, but I imagine it's a particular opinion that most people hold and may help explain it.

444chris444 · May 18, 2015

nataliemcdonnell said:
Don't judge this girl, love her with a true Christian heart.

you are not judging this girl by deciding to not be with her because she is not a virgin. You should not 'love her" either. Make a decision based on facts and truth. unwholesome, unchaste, tainted women do not make good wives and mothers. plain and simple.
nataliemcdonnell appears to be projecting here. seems she may have some skeletons.

Jaydenx · May 18, 2015

Dude, you didn’t ask my opinion, I’m an Atheist, but I’m shaking my head (been there, done that).
Consider your own belief, Jesus called you to be tolerant and forgiving.
Jesus is a character or a real man to me, a character of an ideal man which exists in a lot of religions.

It smells to me like judgement. So what if she made a mistake?
It could be fear of bad judgement from you that causes her to eventually try on some dishonesty.
It could be your fear of judgement from her with regard to your performance that is behind your desire.
Wake up man, you might have done a good thing by waiting for someone, but you have made plenty of mistakes,
and you’re still young, and I hope you live to make plenty more.

It sounds to me in your mind there is no redeeming yourself from that particular mistake
(if I were to agree that it is a mistake).

Adam81 · May 18, 2015

Anon77 said:
Hi, I'm going to try to make this short.
Basically I need another Christian to talk to about this issue.
Nobody else seems to understand me.
I'm a 19 year old male, and I am a virgin. Abstinence is a huge deal to me and always has been. I've always been hoping that my future wife would be a virgin as well. I've recently met a girl at church and I really, really like her. She's so sweet and loves God very much. But she's 22 and I'm not sure if she's a virgin. We've been talking a lot and seeing each other outside of church but it's still a mystery to me. She wears a purity ring but didn't say if she was still a virgin she just said it's her promise to God to practice abstinence. I don't know a polite way to ask, but it's really bugging me. I don't want to fall for her and find out she's not a virgin because it would make it really difficult for me to have a serious relationship with her.
I've tried to talk to friends about this but nobody gets why it is so important to me, one friend called me a "sexist pig" for feeling this way. Is it wrong? What can I do? What should I do? I can't just change the way I feel about purity and everything. I don't want to be with someone who didn't wait for me, but at the same time I've already developed feelings for her and I can't make myself stop seeing her if she wasn't.

It's oka to see it as something important, but I don't think it should be a deal breaker on its own - to me, there's no much difference between someone wanting to only marry a virgin an someone only wanting to marry a rich celebrity. I think you should be wanting to love a person, not an ideal. Nobody is without sin, and it isn't healthy to allow a specific sin to bring a barrier between you and them. If they have a sin and you can't forgive it, maybe the better plan is to work on forgiveness rather than finding someone without that sin.

Cearbhall · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
you are not judging this girl by deciding to not be with her because she is not a virgin. You should not 'love her" either. Make a decision based on facts and truth. unwholesome, unchaste, tainted women do not make good wives and mothers. plain and simple.

How is that a fact? Where is your evidence? Are you confident that you know the truth about the sexual history of every wife and mother that you know? Do you really imagine that they would share such information with you? And have you honestly never met an unmarried woman who was a good mother?

Also, it seems that you're including women who had sex and have repented, even though that's not what God would do. It doesn't irreversibly "taint" a person more than any other sin does.

444chris444 said:
nataliemcdonnell appears to be projecting here. seems she may have some skeletons.

That was uncalled for. No need to make personal accusations just because you have a disagreement with someone. Is this sort of taunting what Jesus would do?

444chris444 · May 18, 2015

Adam81 said:
If they have a sin and you can't forgive it, maybe the better plan is to work on forgiveness rather than finding someone without that sin.

it is not your job to forgive someone who has sinned against God. Yes we have all sinned against God. This man is making a decision about a future wife. Allow me to draw you all a very simple analogy........ You need a new baseball glove. Of course you would play catch with a used, well broken in and worn baseball glove. However, when you decide to go and spend your hard earned money on a 'new' glove, you purchase a glove that is brand new from the store. Jesus spoke in analogies, so have I.
A man will always, ALWAYS, have a better life and a better wife with a woman who is a virgin before he marries her.
If the truth hurts, you are on the wrong side of the shiv.

444chris444 · May 18, 2015

Cearbhall said:
How is that a fact? Where is your evidence? Are you confident that you know the truth about the sexual history of every wife and mother that you know? Do you really imagine that they would share such information with you? And have you honestly never met an unmarried woman who was a good mother?

Also, it seems that you're including women who had sex and have repented, even though that's not what God would do. It doesn't irreversibly "taint" a person more than any other sin does.

That was uncalled for. No need to make personal accusations just because you have a disagreement with someone. Is this sort of taunting what Jesus would do?

Jesus would tell this man to not waste his time with an unchaste woman.
And Jesus would also tell this man to seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.
which is exactly what I have said as well.

Cearbhall · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
However, when you decide to go and spend your hard earned money on a 'new' glove, you purchase a glove that is brand new from the store. Jesus spoke in analogies, so have I.

...except that's not at all the sort of analogy that Jesus used to talk about sin. He spoke of the Prodigal Son and of there being more joy in Heaven over the one recovered sheep than the ninety-nine others. He forgave the prostitute and let everyone know that she was a worthy human being. These writings are 2,000 years old, yet they don't subscribe to this nonsense about damaged goods.

444chris444 · May 18, 2015

Cearbhall said:
...except that's not at all the sort of analogy that Jesus used to talk about sin. He spoke of the Prodigal Son and of there being more joy in Heaven over the one recovered sheep than the ninety-nine others. He forgave the prostitute and let everyone know that she was a worthy human being. These writings are 2,000 years old, yet they don't subscribe to this nonsense about damaged goods.

Proverbs 18:22 says, "He that finds a wife, finds a good thing.."
an old preacher one time told me, "but if she is not good, she is just a thing.
You will have a better chance of finding a good wife in a virgin, than one who is not.

Also, Gen 2:18 says, "it is not good that the man should be alone, I will make an help-meat for him..."
If the woman is not a help to the man, she is just meat.
Men, take my words, they are wisdom.

Adam81 · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
a man with options can make the best choice possible. And a young man should always strive to make wise decisions. The wise decision is a virgin.

The wise decision is the woman God has set aside for you and not telling God you know better.

Adam81 · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
Proverbs 18:22 says, "He that finds a wife, finds a good thing.."
an old preacher one time told me, "but if she is not good, she is just a thing.
You will have a better chance of finding a good wife in a virgin, than one who is not.

Also, Gen 2:18 says, "it is not good that the man should be alone, I will make an help-meat for him..."
If the woman is not a help to the man, she is just meat.
Men, take my words, they are wisdom.

Any preacher who says a wife is just a thing should be ignored.

Cearbhall · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
Jesus would tell this man to not waste his time with an unchaste woman.
And Jesus would also tell this man to seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.
which is exactly what I have said as well.

So you have no evidence. It's just confirmation bias. For all you know, the women you consider to be the best wives and mothers you know had multiple partners before marrying.

High Fidelity · May 18, 2015

Adam81 said:
The wise decision is the woman God has set aside for you and not telling God you know better.

And how do we discern that? The first woman that shows interest? The first one we have feelings for?

I'm sure there are millions of abuse victims that would have something to say on that.

Cearbhall · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
an old preacher one time told me, "but if she is not good, she is just a thing.
You will have a better chance of finding a good wife in a virgin, than one who is not.

Yeah, that's not evidence. It is, however, dehumanization of one of God's children.

444chris444 said:
If the woman is not a help to the man, she is just meat.
Men, take my words, they are wisdom.

This is not wisdom. This is disturbing.

444chris444 · May 18, 2015

Adam81 said:
Any preacher who says a wife is just a thing should be ignored.

here is the problem with people like you, thats not even what I said. He didnt say a wife is just a thing. He said a wife that is not good is just a thing. Which is a true statement.
So easy being you and letting words vomit from your mouth. I bet you post your drivel advice all over the internet for eager beta loser droogs to consume and flatulate about.

Cearbhall · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
Of course you would play catch with a used, well broken in and worn baseball glove. However, when you decide to go and spend your hard earned money on a 'new' glove, you purchase a glove that is brand new from the store.

Wait, wait. I skimmed the first part of the analogy the first time, but now I'm concerned. Are you saying that it's fine for him to fool around sexually with women, but then he should turn around and reject any woman who's done the same thing because she couldn't possibly become a good spouse or parent? Or am I completely misinterpreting this? Perhaps you're just referring to dating.

444chris444 · May 18, 2015

Cearbhall said:
Yeah, that's not evidence. It is, however, dehumanization of one of God's children.

This is not wisdom. This is disturbing.

like is said, if the truth hurts, you are on the wrong side of the shiv.

Cearbhall · May 18, 2015

444chris444 said:
here is the problem with people like you, thats not even what I said. He didnt say a wife is just a thing. He said a wife that is not good is just a thing. Which is a true statement.
So easy being you and letting words vomit from your mouth. I bet you post your drivel advice all over the internet for eager beta loser droogs to consume and flatulate about.

Goodness gracious. Have some tact. Are you trying to be taken seriously?

And that is exactly what you said, and what you're still saying: That wives who had sex before marriage are just things. Just because it doesn't apply to all wives doesn't mean it isn't objectification.

muddleglum · May 18, 2015

Patrick Bateman said:
I think what's most difficult for us as humans is that we categorise sin.

I personally struggle to see the sin of pre-marital sex as the same as the sin of getting drunk, lying etc and I trust most people feel similarly.

Having pre-marital sex then, under that view, is a pretty significant demonstration against your professed faith. To favour the flesh to that extent more than what we profess to believe and hold to.

By my own standards I am a sinner by having that opinion and I am not trying to justify it, but I imagine it's a particular opinion that most people hold and may help explain it.

It may be the Holy Spirit influencing you. If you have premarital sex you become one flesh with the other

Put it this way, if you cut off someone's hands you can then say, "Hey, forgive me!" However, if you love the person, you will realize that no matter what that person says about forgiving you, you have permanently altered his life. Your sin had consequences, didn't it? Love would demand that you help the man the rest of his or your life.

Now, if you are one flesh then breaking it will involve either death or adultery. That's in scripture. So that is the consequence. Fornication is, Paul said, THE only sin against your body. We don't know about the woman, but to enter into a marriage relationship when she is one flesh with another will be adultery.

Therefore, it isn't a mere matter of forgiveness. Check the O.T. where you have to pay back 4 or 5 times what you steal. The principle is exactly the same. Love will have you repair the damage. Love goes beyond just you getting forgiveness.

444chris444 · May 18, 2015

Cearbhall said:
Goodness gracious. Have some tact. Are you trying to be taken seriously?

And that's exactly what you said, and what you're still saying: That wives who had sex before marriage are just things.

oh goodness me! i doth not agree with thee!!! back to your institutionalized instructional facility.

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