Is It Wrong To Come To Christ Out Fear Of Hell

[child630]

I know I ask a lot of quetions, but these forums have helped a lot. I did make a confession of faith out of fear. I have HADEPHOBIA. The fear of hell is overwhelming. I have lived my life pleasing myself. My thoughts are abominable to God. I lust. But my point is I have habitual sin that I don't want to give up. But at the same time I do want to give it up because I fear hell. I will do everything within my power to stop. Only because I fear hell. I have feelings of love towards him. But I am having a hard time stopping my habitual sin. My friend and I will come up with punishments if I fall. I do not want to perish. And I am going to replace them with new habits. If I only obey God out of fear, will I still be punished?

 

[Echetus]

Ask and you shall receive. Be believing in everything. Everything works out to the greater good of those that are in Christ Jesus. Yes it is wrong to fear hell. That is a satanic temptation.
You need to learn Spiritual Matters. There is more then meets the eye. There are Spirits all around us. Jesus leads us to one place to another by a Scroll wherein is written all our sins and judgements.
Spiritual Warfare man. Start Praying to god non ceasingly. Rebuke the Devil and he will flee from you. Bind and Loose. Bind the demons to hell. Loose the Spirit of God and His angels into your life. Bind the Spirits of God and God to yourself, and loose the grasp of the demons(satan is a demon). To defeat bad habits you have to work up a Spiritual Frenzy. Read the Bible, Combat the Demons, fast(from whatever it may be that is haunting you, or just food), attend Church, do good unto others, pray. To refrain from food for 1 day and 1 night will teach you how Spiritually immature you are.

 

[Echetus]

Prehaps I didnt read correctly. If you came to Christ casually while saved in fear of hell you did wrong. But if it was during your salvation, you did right. You have to confess to being worthy of hell, but Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to save you. That is the test. If you do not believe in the Lord, you do not Believe on Him as God. Which is why we confess to hellfire to be saved. i had a time when I was thought I was in hell. Everybody accused me of wrong. I had 5 things wrong with my back and was in severe pain after a near death experience. It just took time to get over it. There is no doubt where I am now. Problem is satan is a son of a B.

 

[child630]

Prehaps I didnt read correctly. If you came to Christ casually while saved in fear of hell you did wrong. But if it was during your salvation, you did right. You have to confess to being worthy of hell, but Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to save you. That is the test. If you do not believe in the Lord, you do not Believe on Him as God. Which is why we confess to hellfire to be saved. i had a time when I was thought I was in hell. Everybody accused me of wrong. I had 5 things wrong with my back and was in severe pain after a near death experience. It just took time to get over it. There is no doubt where I am now. Problem is satan is a son of a B.

Thank you. I did come to Christ out of fear of hell in the beginning. But I still fear hell, and the only reason I keep coming to him is because I fear my confession of faith was not enough. I keep praying, "Lord, save me from the fires of hell. I know I deserve hell, but please in your mercy don't give me what I deserve." I keep saying that same prayer often.

 

[Echetus]

The Holy Spirit is the Seal of Salvation. You could commit 10 murders, worship satan, and still goto heaven. The Trick with the Holy Spirit is that you only get it if you arent going to do those type of things. Thats why there is no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus. Theres the casual Walker, who doesnt have the Holy Spirit, He will be judged by Works. The person with the Holy Spirit is saved out of Faith. Which is why you felt that miracle when you confessed to hellfire and that Christ Jesus would save you from it. Justification by Faith, not by works. Justification threw Works and Faith is the casual walker.

 

[thesunisout]

I know I ask a lot of quetions, but these forums have helped a lot. I did make a confession of faith out of fear. I have HADEPHOBIA. The fear of hell is overwhelming. I have lived my life pleasing myself. My thoughts are abominable to God. I lust and I touch. Sorry, TMI, I'm sure. But my point is I have habitual sin that I don't want to give up. But at the same time I do want to give it up because I fear hell. I will do everything within my power to stop. Only because I fear hell. I have feelings of love towards him. But I am having a hard time stopping my habitual sin. My friend and I will come up with punishments if I fall. I do not want to perish. And I am going to replace them with new habits. If I only obey God out of fear, will I still be punished?

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

No, it's not wrong for you to come to Christ out of fear of hell, according to scripture. Any rational person will be terrified of going to hell and be desperate to be saved from it. However, once you believe on Him for salvation you have been forgiven for all of your sins and have been adopted into His family as a son. You are now justified before God because of what He did on the cross. If you sin, and confess that sin, He is faithful to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9)

You don't have to cower in fear anymore; now you need to walk with Him. There are two things you need to understand. One is that you cannot overcome sin in your own strength:

Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

You can do nothing without Jesus, including overcoming sin. You must surrender this problem entirely to Him and admit your helplessness to do it on your own. It is the Spirit of God who changes us from within, and He does that when we turn over control to Him. Stop punishing yourself; Christ took your beating on the cross and by His stripes we are healed. All you need to do is surrender and the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

The second thing is that God loves you more than you understand:

Ephesians 3:19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

His love for us surpasses our knowledge, and He is jealous for you. Read the Fathers love letter to help you understand how much He does love you:

Father's Love Letter Text

You need to trust in Him and put no confidence in the flesh. Surrendering control is the solution to the problem. Look for the leading of His Spirit in your daily life and be obedient to His voice. Yes, we should fear God, with an awe and a reverence. There is no condemnation though for those who are in Christ Jesus. So do not let the devil destroy you when you fail. Confess your sin, get back up and keep moving. God promised to help you with this:

Micah 7:19

He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Just as we cannot save ourselves, neither can we stop sinning on our own. Give up control and let God step into the drivers seat so that He can subdue your sins under your feet. Stay in prayer constantly, and keep praying for the gift of self-control and the physical and spiritual strength you need for each day. Read the word every day and meditate on it, always praying for wisdom and the guidance of the Spirit. I'll pray for you too. God bless.

 

[child630]

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

No, it's not wrong for you to come to Christ out of fear of hell, according to scripture. Any rational person will be terrified of going to hell and be desperate to be saved from it. However, once you believe on Him for salvation you have been forgiven for all of your sins and have been adopted into His family as a son. You are now justified before God because of what He did on the cross. If you sin, and confess that sin, He is faithful to forgive you and cleanse you from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9)

You don't have to cower in fear anymore; now you need to walk with Him. There are two things you need to understand. One is that you cannot overcome sin in your own strength:

Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

You can do nothing without Jesus, including overcoming sin. You must surrender this problem entirely to Him and admit your helplessness to do it on your own. It is the Spirit of God who changes us from within, and He does that when we turn over control to Him. Stop punishing yourself; Christ took your beating on the cross and by His stripes we are healed. All you need to do is surrender and the Holy Spirit will do the rest.

The second thing is that God loves you more than you understand:

Ephesians 3:19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

His love for us surpasses our knowledge, and He is jealous for you. Read the Fathers love letter to help you understand how much He does love you:

Father's Love Letter Text

You need to trust in Him and put no confidence in the flesh. Surrendering control is the solution to the problem. Look for the leading of His Spirit in your daily life and be obedient to His voice. Yes, we should fear God, with an awe and a reverence. There is no condemnation though for those who are in Christ Jesus. So do not let the devil destroy you when you fail. Confess your sin, get back up and keep moving. God promised to help you with this:

Micah 7:19

He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

Just as we cannot save ourselves, neither can we stop sinning on our own. Give up control and let God step into the drivers seat so that He can subdue your sins under your feet. Stay in prayer constantly, and keep praying for the gift of self-control and the physical and spiritual strength you need for each day. Read the word every day and meditate on it, always praying for wisdom and the guidance of the Spirit. I'll pray for you too. God bless.

Wow. Thank you

 

[BluhdoftheLamb]

Thank you. I did come to Christ out of fear of hell in the beginning. But I still fear hell

You have been told that is wrong, but what does the Bible say?

"by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil." (Proverbs 16:6)

It's a perfectly valid tool - USE IT!! By all means. Ok, so perfect love casts out all fear. So we're not perfect, especially when we're struggling with temptation. Especially when that temptation is our weakness. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Nothing wrong with getting a good solid beginning!

and the only reason I keep coming to him is because I fear my confession of faith was not enough.

I could spend quite a while telling you about the problems with this statement, but you obviously know in your heart of hearts that this is askew. So what I will tell you is that anything at all we get from God EVER, we get by coming to Him exactly like we come to Him for initial Salvation. This will become like a "well worn pathway," so consider it necessary practice.

At the same time you want to strengthen your Faith and come to a point of Spiritual understanding that is consistent with Scripture. That will mean your own confession (or anything else) will become far less important than what it is you are confessing, just like your Faith will become far less important than the object of your Faith, namely the Lord. In the meantime there is suffering, so you'll want to apply yourself to this diligently to get through that part. You've heard of 'running the gauntlet?'

I keep praying, "Lord, save me from the fires of hell. I know I deserve hell, but please in your mercy don't give me what I deserve." I keep saying that same prayer often.

Ok, now try this: "Lord save me a sinner." Some call that the Jesus prayer. Do that in time of temptation. This brings you away from some far off imagined fear, right back to reality, here and now. And as the other poster has been telling you, there is plenty to fear in the here and now!

We just need to learn to walk straight.

 

[child630]

You have been told that is wrong, but what does the Bible say?

"by the fear of the LORD [men] depart from evil." (Proverbs 16:6)

It's a perfectly valid tool - USE IT!! By all means. Ok, so perfect love casts out all fear. So we're not perfect, especially when we're struggling with temptation. Especially when that temptation is our weakness. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Nothing wrong with getting a good solid beginning!



I could spend quite a while telling you about the problems with this statement, but you obviously know in your heart of hearts that this is askew. So what I will tell you is that anything at all we get from God EVER, we get by coming to Him exactly like we come to Him for initial Salvation. This will become like a "well worn pathway," so consider it necessary practice.

At the same time you want to strengthen your Faith and come to a point of Spiritual understanding that is consistent with Scripture. That will mean your own confession (or anything else) will become far less important than what it is you are confessing, just like your Faith will become far less important than the object of your Faith, namely the Lord. In the meantime there is suffering, so you'll want to apply yourself to this diligently to get through that part. You've heard of 'running the gauntlet?'




Ok, now try this: "Lord save me a sinner." Some call that the Jesus prayer. Do that in time of temptation. This brings you away from some far off imagined fear, right back to reality, here and now. And as the other poster has been telling you, there is plenty to fear in the here and now!
I will try that prayer. Actually, no I will say that in times of temptation.
We just need to learn to walk straight.

I will say that prayer in times of temptation. Thank you

 

[Dorothea]

Thank you. I did come to Christ out of fear of hell in the beginning. But I still fear hell, and the only reason I keep coming to him is because I fear my confession of faith was not enough. I keep praying, "Lord, save me from the fires of hell. I know I deserve hell, but please in your mercy don't give me what I deserve." I keep saying that same prayer often.

Think of your fear of hell as the first step in your growing in Christ. There are different stages we go through in growing closer to Him, and fear of hell, and also fear of God is a normal step on the path. Keep on the path and your eyes on Christ, and through your relationship with Him and others, you will grow.

 

[theophilus40]

If I only obey God out of fear, will I still be punished?

It depends on why you are afraid. The Bible says that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom but fear of God will lead you to recognize your sinfulness and want to give up your sins because they are offensive to God. Do you want to turn from your sins because you really hate them or simply because you are afraid of the punishment you will receive if you continue in them?

 

[aiki]

I know I ask a lot of quetions, but these forums have helped a lot. I did make a confession of faith out of fear. I have HADEPHOBIA. The fear of hell is overwhelming.

Fear produces the obedience of a prisoner or slave. Such obedience is distasteful to God. God wants you to love Him and to obey Him because you love Him. He wants the obedience of a loving son or daughter.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

I have lived my life pleasing myself. My thoughts are abominable to God. I lust. But my point is I have habitual sin that I don't want to give up.

Ask God to change your heart about it. He will. Clearly, though, you love this sin more than you love your Maker. Doesn't that seem odd to you? You prefer your sin over the One who gave you life and sustains every moment of your existence? You prefer your sin over the One who sacrificed His life to save you from the deadly consequences of the sin you so cherish? You prefer the "pleasure of sin for a season" over the "abundant life" God offers to you in fellowshipping with Him? This doesn't make any sense to me...

But at the same time I do want to give it up because I fear hell. I will do everything within my power to stop. Only because I fear hell.

It's not enough. The motive of love is far stronger than the motive of fear. And obeying out of fear will make you miserable where obeying out of love will bring you joy.

I have feelings of love towards him. But I am having a hard time stopping my habitual sin. My friend and I will come up with punishments if I fall.

THis isn't at all what God tells you to do in order to conquer sin in your life. Do you not know that one who is genuinely born-again has been made dead to sin? A child of God is no longer the slave of sin.

I do not want to perish. And I am going to replace them with new habits. If I only obey God out of fear, will I still be punished?

Ugh. What a question! You profoundly misunderstand what being a Christian is about.

Matthew 22:36-38
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and great commandment.

Selah.

 

[aiki]

I'm resting my faith in Christ's finished work and the fact that God raised Christ from the dead to complete said work and that I alone cannot save myself.

Are you resting your faith in the Saviour, too? It is necessary to have faith in what he has done, but also in who he is.

I guess I'm worried my 'changes' are superficial - which follows with me 'trying' to earn salvation.

Someone has likened the life of a believer to a stony field. God, the "Farmer," wants to make the field fit for planting, but the stones must first be removed. The stones are the points of sin in the believer's life. The big stones are the first ones the Farmer removes. Then the next largest stones are taken out of the field. And so on. This process of "clearing the field of stones" goes on for as long as the believer lives. It is initially, though, the big - some would say superficial and obvious - sins that are removed from a believer's life first. This is normal. The Farmer is just getting started with you. He'll take things deeper over time. Trust Him to clear your field at the right time and in the right way. Relax.

I need to stop being so doubtful and spend more time in my bible and prayer.

THe single best way to become confident in your faith is to feed consistently and persistently on God's Word. Pig out on it!

I guess my whole 'Well I don't trust enough, or I didn't trust fully yesterday...'. Isn't it a done deal the second you have a bit of faith in your heart?

Faith is very much like a muscle. The more you exercise it, the stronger it grows. A weak muscle doesn't grow big and strong overnight, however. Neither will your faith. Both require time and exercise to develop. Be patient. God isn't finished with you yet.

The whole 18 inches statement is SCARY.

It is, isn't it?

Selah.

 

[Eyesee]

Aiki,

Just wanted to say I always enjoy reading your posts brother. God bless you my friend.

 

[child630]

Fear produces the obedience of a prisoner or slave. Such obedience is distasteful to God. God wants you to love Him and to obey Him because you love Him. He wants the obedience of a loving son or daughter.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.



Ask God to change your heart about it. He will. Clearly, though, you love this sin more than you love your Maker. Doesn't that seem odd to you? You prefer your sin over the One who gave you life and sustains every moment of your existence? You prefer your sin over the One who sacrificed His life to save you from the deadly consequences of the sin you so cherish? You prefer the "pleasure of sin for a season" over the "abundant life" God offers to you in fellowshipping with Him? This doesn't make any sense to me...



It's not enough. The motive of love is far stronger than the motive of fear. And obeying out of fear will make you miserable where obeying out of love will bring you joy.



THis isn't at all what God tells you to do in order to conquer sin in your life. Do you not know that one who is genuinely born-again has been made dead to sin? A child of God is no longer the slave of sin.



Ugh. What a question! You profoundly misunderstand what being a Christian is about.

Matthew 22:36-38
36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
37 Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
38 This is the first and great commandment.

Selah.

I know that you are right. I just have a lot of resentment. Not only does the Bible tells us how to behave, it also tells us how to feel. It's frustrating sometimes. Jesus said that if you love me, you will obey my commands. But then the Bible talks about the consequences of not obeying Jesus. That's like a parent saying to his child, "if you love me you will obey my command; but if you do not obey me, you will severely be punished." Most children will think of the second part. Basically, that child would be scared into obeying. Would a parent punish a child because he obeyed out of fear? That would be unfair. You gave me descriptions of love. Isn't it possible to love someone without liking them? Like is a feeling, isn't it? As for my habitual sins, yes I enjoy them. But I am actively turning away from them. Telling me that I have to hate my sinful habits is like telling a chocolate lover that he not only has to obstain from chocolate, but he has to hate it as well or there will be consequences. Well, he certainly can pretend he hates chocolate, but he may be miserable deep down inside because he can not eat the chocolate. I know my analogies are lame. I'm not the most intelligent person. So please just bear with me. My point is, how can you force yourself to feel something when you don't? Another thing, to say that I prefer my sin over God is not the case at all. I do have feelings of love towards God. But I also fear him. Not the kind of fear the Bible talks about; I am actually scared of him. I come to him like a little child. I am constantly asking God to give me a hatred for my sin. I am also having a hard time repenting, so I am asking God for his help on that. People tell me that I have to use self-discipline to stop sinning, which I am starting to do.

 

[Eyesee]

Child630, take a look at what Jesus says more closely...

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments"

Is he saying: "Look, you'll keep my commandments if you say you love me."

Or is he saying: "If you are in love with me and I am the love of your life, you will keep my commandments (because you cannot help but do otherwise)."

Think about someone you love. Is it a chore for you to call them? When they ask you to do something for them, is it done begrudgingly?

I love my wife. I don't have a list that says:

1. Talk to wife today.
2. Tell wife you love her.
3. Make coffee for wife.
4. Wash dishes for wife.
5. Do something "nice" for wife sometime this week.
6. Politely tell wife "goodnight" before you go to bed.
7. Do not forget to kiss wife goodnight.

Can you imagine living in a relationship like that? Where, if you didn't have a list of rules to obey you might miss something?

There is a much better way. Love. Love does because it wants to do. And that is the key to a relationship with Jesus. Why do you think he said:

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you are motivated by love for someone, you will do anything for them, WITHOUT being asked to do it. You will do what they say with joy (or keep their commandments as Jesus puts it) because you love them. There are no rules with love because love does not need rules. Love superceeds the rules because love goes beyond anything the rules could ever accomplish.

I sure hope this is causing a light to go off somewhere...

 

[Eyesee]

By the way, Child630 -- I felt I needed to share with you that some of us struggle with loving Jesus, because we don't understand the kind of love he has for us -- "love" from a father is a foreign concept to some people. My father was a very emotionally distant and sometimes abusive dad so I never felt accepted, wanted or loved by him.

This left a huge void in my heart and to this day I still struggle with really believing that Jesus actually loves me like he says he does. It is a process for some people; I know it is for me. As of late, God has really been breaking through in this area and it is so liberating!!! Oh if I could only stay in his presence .... I love him so, I just honestly have no clue what it's like to have a loving, approving father that doesn't slap you down emotionally or physically when you mess up.

But praise God he is setting me free in this area as I realize how much he truly does love me. You know what? The more I realize the more I desire to give him all that I have.

I hope this helps.

 

[child630]

Child630, take a look at what Jesus says more closely...

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments"

Is he saying: "Look, you'll keep my commandments if you say you love me."

Or is he saying: "If you are in love with me and I am the love of your life, you will keep my commandments (because you cannot help but do otherwise)."

Think about someone you love. Is it a chore for you to call them? When they ask you to do something for them, is it done begrudgingly?

I love my wife. I don't have a list that says:

1. Talk to wife today.
2. Tell wife you love her.
3. Make coffee for wife.
4. Wash dishes for wife.
5. Do something "nice" for wife sometime this week.
6. Politely tell wife "goodnight" before you go to bed.
7. Do not forget to kiss wife goodnight.

Can you imagine living in a relationship like that? Where, if you didn't have a list of rules to obey you might miss something?

There is a much better way. Love. Love does because it wants to do. And that is the key to a relationship with Jesus. Why do you think he said:

“‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If you are motivated by love for someone, you will do anything for them, WITHOUT being asked to do it. You will do what they say with joy (or keep their commandments as Jesus puts it) because you love them. There are no rules with love because love does not need rules. Love superceeds the rules because love goes beyond anything the rules could ever accomplish.

I sure hope this is causing a light to go off somewhere...

I can't help but fear. Jeremiah writes about a time when the children of disobedience will be thrown into never quenching fire, where their carcasses never die. And the righteous children, that would be you, would look down upon them with horror. I have lived in disobedience to the gospel all my life, up until now, though I still stumble, even though I knew the truth. I use to curse God when things did not go my way. If God rejected me, he would be right. How can I not live in fear? I am hoping he will take pity on me, and not punish me, even though I deserve it. So yes, fear motivates me. Yes, I have confessed with my mouth Jesus is Lord. But Jesus said not everyone that calls me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. I can do a thousand prayers or a thousand good deeds; I can stop my sinful habits and still get rejected by God. How can I love someone when they may reject me in the first place? You are right in the second post you wrote; in fact you nailed it. My fear is getting rejected by God and then facing punishment. I am going to choose to believe in Jesus and make him Lord of my life. But if I am going to hell, then I will go to hell believing. I just pray that God would be merciful.

 

[ezeric]

I can't help but fear. Jeremiah writes about a time when the children of disobedience will be thrown into never quenching fire, where their carcasses never die. And the righteous children, that would be you, would look down upon them with horror. I have lived in disobedience to the gospel all my life, up until now, though I still stumble, even though I knew the truth. I use to curse God when things did not go my way. If God rejected me, he would be right. How can I not live in fear? I am hoping he will take pity on me, and not punish me, even though I deserve it. So yes, fear motivates me. Yes, I have confessed with my mouth Jesus is Lord. But Jesus said not everyone that calls me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. I can do a thousand prayers or a thousand good deeds; I can stop my sinful habits and still get rejected by God. How can I love someone when they may reject me in the first place? You are right in the second post you wrote; in fact you nailed it. My fear is getting rejected by God and then facing punishment. I am going to choose to believe in Jesus and make him Lord of my life. But if I am going to hell, then I will go to hell believing. I just pray that God would be merciful.

First off you belong to the LORD, and HE loves you so much!
And you are under the law (see Romans 7 and 8)...and read Galatians too.

Your prayers, are great but GOD hears everything, and heard you the first time. And you are forgiven at the cross 2000 years ago, you are not forgiven because you asked, you are forgiven because of what JESUS has already done!

You are putting all the emphasis on yourself and not on JESUS.
The life of JESUS is rest - resting from they own effort or labours see Hebrews 4:10

So all you have to do, is start believing the GOOD NEWS, you are forgiven already and loved un-conditionally and all you have to do is believe it.

IN Adam all sin and die - that is you and me, and everyone for that matter.
But in CHRIST all shall be made alive - that is you and me and everyone for that matter too. 1 Corinthians 15:22

You understand that since Adam came in the world, all the sin and death came - right?
But JESUS also came and because of HIM all the life and righteousness comes to all too!
You didn't do anything to be born in sin and receive death - for that is the lot of this world...but in the kingdom (which is NOW and in you) that gives us righteousness and LIFE ...starting now and good forever because again its JESUS.

GOD already took pity on all of us, as we all deserve punishment and death by sending JESUS in the likeness of human flesh, taking the death, punishment and curse for us - so we can receive HIS righteousness by faith! (by simply taking it as ours!).

The only think haunting you is NOT GOD - but your own tormented ideas and thoughts that are nothing to do with the GRACE and un-conditional LOVE that GOD has for you.

Once you experience this real LOVE, sins will start to fall off you, and you will see it! its amazing! as you can't free yourself, but you are set free by the Kindness of the LORD which leads us to repentance. Romans 2:4

Rest in LOVE and know your sins are all forgiven!

-eric

 

[aiki]

I know that you are right. I just have a lot of resentment. Not only does the Bible tells us how to behave, it also tells us how to feel. It's frustrating sometimes. Jesus said that if you love me, you will obey my commands. But then the Bible talks about the consequences of not obeying Jesus. That's like a parent saying to his child, "if you love me you will obey my command; but if you do not obey me, you will severely be punished." Most children will think of the second part. Basically, that child would be scared into obeying.

Well, let me ask you: Why does God give us the commands that He does? Does God need us to obey Him? Is His lessened when we don't obey Him? The Bible says that God is perfect, which means that He needs nothing. He certainly doesn't need us to obey Him. So, why the commands, then? The Bible tells us that God's commands are for our benefit, they protect us, and open the way for God's blessings to flow into our lives. The alternative to not obeying God is to sin. Sin has dire consequences. Hell being chief among them.

Let me offer you an analogy that might help to clarify things a bit: Imagine that I am a mountain guide and I tell you that path A is the best way to journey to the top of the mountain. It follows the safest route, and is the easiest to travel, and has the best view. Path B, on the other hand, is, I warn you, just the opposite. If you follow path B, you will die. Now, am I guilty of scaring you into using path A? If everything I have told you is true, am I wrong in telling you so? It seems to me I would be showing you that I had your best interests in mind by warning you of the danger and death of path B and urging you toward the pleasures of path A. This is essentially what God does when He tells us to walk in love with Him (path A) or risk the danger and death of a life of sin (path B). He isn't manipulating us into a relationship with Him by fear, but showing us His love for us by telling us the best way to live, which is in fellowship with Him.

Would a parent punish a child because he obeyed out of fear? That would be unfair.

But God doesn't punish us for obeying Him out of fear. It simply doesn't benefit us to do so.

You gave me descriptions of love. Isn't it possible to love someone without liking them? Like is a feeling, isn't it?

I'm not too sure about loving people when you dislike them...

As for my habitual sins, yes I enjoy them. But I am actively turning away from them. Telling me that I have to hate my sinful habits is like telling a chocolate lover that he not only has to obstain from chocolate, but he has to hate it as well or there will be consequences. Well, he certainly can pretend he hates chocolate, but he may be miserable deep down inside because he can not eat the chocolate. I know my analogies are lame.

No, your analogies are not lame. I appreciate you using them in an effort to clarify your view. I think we can hate sin while still acknowledging that it is attractive and pleasurable. In fact, these very things make sin all the more foul. It is bad enough that sin causes so much pain and destruction; it is much worse that it often does so initially with such delicious pleasure. I do not mean, then, to tell you that you should pretend sin does not have its gratifying qualities. But you can acknowledge this and still hate sin.

I'm not the most intelligent person.

Welcome to the club!

So please just bear with me. My point is, how can you force yourself to feel something when you don't?

Well, imagine you have a bottle of poison in front of you that tastes like the most delicious chocolate you've ever had (you took a tiny sip out of curiosity). Can you acknowlege the poison is delicious while still also acknowledging that it will kill you if you drink it? I think so. The same goes for sin. THere is, as the Bible says, "pleasure in sin for a season," but acknowledging that this is so doesn't mean you don't understand that, for all its pleasure, sin will bring you ultimately to death. Does this make sense?

Another thing, to say that I prefer my sin over God is not the case at all. I do have feelings of love towards God.

Hmmm... when you sin, who do you love more at that moment, which is more attractive to you, God or your sin?

But I also fear him. Not the kind of fear the Bible talks about; I am actually scared of him. I come to him like a little child. I am constantly asking God to give me a hatred for my sin.

I think it would be much better for you to ask God to give you a love for Him. You see, the more you love Him, the greater your hatred of sin will be.

I am also having a hard time repenting, so I am asking God for his help on that. People tell me that I have to use self-discipline to stop sinning, which I am starting to do.

Nah. Self-discipline will only take you so far. And usually not far enough. God wants you to tap into the enabling power of His Spirit in order to live the way He says to live. He is the One who changes you. You cannot change yourself. You will only produce more of you; only God can produce more of Himself in you. Your job is to humble yourself before Him and yield your life to Him to do with as He pleases. So long as you remain submitted to Him, His life-giving and transforming power flows into you and changes you.

Selah.