Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Tone said:
There is also the "law of sin and death", which is abolished in Messiah.

Are you saying Torah is this law? Be careful how you answer.

The Law was not abolished, it was fulfilled...the CURSE (sin and death) was abolished...

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

BobRyan said:
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )
==============================

"We"?
You cited two of your own posts.
There is no agreement here. I have stated plainly that I do not agree with you.

What does it mean when someone takes God's name in vain. And where do you see that prior to the giving of the law?

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

BobRyan said:
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )
==============================

How many times have we seen this post repeated? I have lost count.
There is no need to keep your posts on top. I can find them just fine.
And I don't woe you any answers. I consider posting to be volunteer work.
Unless you are offering me a high-paying job. lol

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

BobRyan said:
Nor do we find the command "do not take God's name in vain" in those chapters - but it still exists.

And yet we DO find that the Sabbath was made binding on the 7th day of creation week. Gen 2:1-3 and even the "legal code" of Ex 20:11 reminds us'

("we" as in both sides of the classic Sunday vs Bible Sabbath debate
as we saw here Yesterday at 3:16 PM #84
and here Yesterday at 3:27 PM #85 )

Another repeat. Why?

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

BobRyan said:
I believe "Sin is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

As for "being in church on Sunday" - I have been there on Sunday a great many times. Probably will do it again this next Sunday.

But that does not mean I plan to break the Sabbath commandment on Sabbath.

What is your point?

My point?
The question was:
"Do you believe it is a sin to go to church on Sunday?"
This is a yes or no question.
It is not clear whether you said yes or no.
You must not believe it is a sin, or you would not do it.
What are you doing on Sundays, infiltrating the enemy?

Galatians 4:17
Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them.

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

Tone said:
There is also the "law of sin and death", which is abolished in Messiah.

Are you saying Torah is this law? Be careful how you answer.

That sounds like a threat. Explain.

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
They were created on the 6th day...Shabbat on the 7th day. They were not created for Shabbat, Shabbat was created FOR them" as Yeshua said...

Do you see biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen?

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
They were created on the 6th day...Shabbat on the 7th day. They were not created for Shabbat, Shabbat was created FOR them" as Yeshua said...

God took a day of rest after six days of the work of creating. When did A&E take a Sabbath?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Do you see biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen?

The day after Adam was created. It is quite obvious that the Law was known long before Sinai...remember the Sabbath (likely because it was kept before captivity in Egypt and not kept while in Egypt because of slavery). Mostly circumstantial but there. If Shabbat is part of the Torah then Torah was known prior to Sinai...and it was.

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
God took a day of rest after six days of the work of creating. When did A&E take a Sabbath?

The Almighty by definition does not need rest...He gave it to us after we were created...

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Do you see biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen?

Do you think Torah was invented at Sinai??? It is The Almighty's Will and Wisdom and the framework was all over prior to written form at Sinai. The forefathers walked with The Almighty...Adam, Abraham, Noah...Who gave them instruction? The Almighty is timeless and Torah universal...it has always been. Yeshua in John 1 eternally existed and did the Will of His Father...Torah.

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Do you think Torah was invented at Sinai??? It is The Almighty's Will and Wisdom and the framework was all over prior to written form at Sinai. The forefathers walked with The Almighty...Adam, Abraham, Noah...Who gave them instruction? The Almighty is timeless and Torah universal...it has always been. Yeshua in John 1 eternally existed and did the Will of His Father...Torah.

I'll take that as a "No."
You do not have biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen.
Am I understanding you correctly?

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
I'll take that as a "No."
You do not have biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen.
Am I understanding you correctly?

That is what you got from what I wrote? It is not as clear cut as you need it to be...do you not remember the Shabbat before Sinai?

Saint Steven · Feb 22, 2019

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
That is what you got from what I wrote? It is not as clear cut as you need it to be...

Still no biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen? Okay. I tried.

What's your take on this?
Were the Ten Commandments "engraved in letters on stone"?

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Yeshua HaDerekh · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Still no biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen? Okay. I tried.

What's your take on this?
Were the Ten Commandments "engraved in letters on stone"?

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

You HAVE to say ALL of Exodus 16 because it is quite evident that Shabbat was kept BEFORE Sinai.
What is to take? The New Covenant is Torah, not on stone but in our hearts.

Tone · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
That sounds like a threat. Explain.

Not a threat, just a heads up...you wouldn't want to call something Yah calls holy--unholy...common...or unclean would you?

Isaiah 5:20
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

This will explain:
Torah Incarnate

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Another repeat. Why?

Because context matters so readers get the point - and because the point it makes answers the question Ace asks and address his speculation on that very point

- and ignoring the detail in the post to then post a statement addressed by the post already - does not cause the answer to vanish.

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
Still no biblical evidence for any human observing the Sabbath before Exodus chapter sixteen?

Still no biblical evidence for Exodus 20:7 "Do not take God's name in vain" quoted/stated before Exodus 20??? Shall we then "imagine to ourselves" it was ok before Exodus 20??

Obviously that sort of game does not work with moral law.

Hence the reference in Ex 20:11 back to Genesis 2:1-3 -- the sort of reference that does not at all exist for "do no take God's name in vain".

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
What's your take on this?
Were the Ten Commandments "engraved in letters on stone"?

Yes --
AND on the heart under the New Covenant.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Thus it is "still a sin" to "take God's name in vain"

BobRyan · Feb 22, 2019

Saint Steven said:
I'll take that as a "No."

You do not have biblical evidence for any human quoting/observing "do not take God's name in vain" before Exodus chapter 20.
Am I understanding you correctly?

Is it wrong that I keep Shabbat and do not "go to church" on Sunday?

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

You can call me Steve

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

You can call me Steve

Men dream of truth, find it then cant live with it

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