Is it weird for men to listen to women teach the Bible?

[blackribbon]

No, it's saying that women who do not marry, bear children, guide the house.....are busy instead gossiping and being idle.

Like WOW even more. You wouldn't need a second verse if it were "crystal clear" and widows can have children ... And single childless women don't necessarily have idle time. Most are very busy and have purpose. Some are even very busy with God's work.

Do you also believe that Adam was not deceived? Did he intentionally eat of the forbidden fruit or was he too weak to say "no" then?

 

[bèlla]

what a "debait" thread..

This is a sad thread.

Given your thoughts on manhood, do you expect the same from church leadership? I don’t think you’ve shared your perspective in our discourse.

~Bella

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

This is a sad thread.

Given your thoughts on manhood, do you expect the same from church leadership? I don’t think you’ve shared your perspective in our discourse.

~Bella

i'd say the qualifications for church leadership are spelled out in 1 timothy 3.

 

[bèlla]

i'd say the qualifications for church leadership are spelled out in 1 timothy 3.

Thank you.

In your opinion, why is the subjective so divisive?

~Bella

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Thank you.

In your opinion, why is the subjective so divisive?

~Bella

what subjective things would you be referring to?

 

[( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

what subjective things would you be referring to?

you're not that bright, are you?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

you're not that bright, are you?

sit booboo sit....good dog.

 

[bèlla]

what subjective things would you be referring to?

I’m sorry W, that’s a typo. It should read, why is the subject so divisive?

~Bella

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I’m sorry W, that’s a typo. It should read, why is the subject so divisive?

~Bella

people are going to do what they want and believe what they believe regardless of what anyone says. people have traditions and ways of thinking they will not let go of no matter what.

 

[blackribbon]

i'd say the qualifications for church leadership are spelled out in 1 timothy 3.

Jesus wouldn't have qualified to be a deacon in the church if those are hard and fast qualifications and not just guidelines.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Jesus wouldn't have qualified to be a deacon in the church if those are hard and fast qualifications and not just guidelines.

you mean the "husband of one wife" qualification? that one is against polygamy, not single people.

the apostle Paul would have qualified as well.

 

[blackribbon]

you mean the "husband of one wife" qualification? that one is against polygamy, not single people.

the apostle Paul would have qualified as well.

Some churches read it as "law" and deacons must be married. I mean a single man is not the husband of one wife. Paul was a widower so meant the definition of the husband of one woman. Jesus did not. Assuming that this was a rule against polygamy is just an assumption since it is not specifically said as such.

Nowhere in the passage does it claim a "man" has to be male instead just a member of mankind. Or do we have to assume that all verses that specifically say "man" are not to be equally applied to women.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Some churches read it as "law" and deacons must be married.

then neither Paul or Jesus qualify. Paul would have to marry again(being a widower is not being married).

thankfully this isn't the case, as it's about polygamy as it wouldn't specify being married to one wife otherwise. it would instead say "must be married" or "must be a faithful husband".

Nowhere in the passage does it claim a "man" has to be male instead just a member of mankind. Or do we have to assume that all verses that specifically say "man" are not to be equally applied to women.

the meaning of words are determined by the context in which they are used.

verses 11 and 12 give us a clue...(women can't be husbands....).

 

[blackribbon]

then neither Paul or Jesus qualify. Paul would have to marry again(being a widower is not being married).

thankfully this isn't the case, as it's about polygamy as it wouldn't specify being married to one wife otherwise. it would instead say "must be married" or "must be a faithful husband".

the meaning of words are determined by the context in which they are used.

verses 11 and 12 give us a clue...(women can't be husbands....).

Paul by definition, even as a widower, was the "husband of one woman". His marriage to her did not get erased because she died. Just as I am still "Mrs" my husband's name.

And why were women even mentioned in this passage if they are not also to be considered as deacons? I assume that it would have been common sense that a godly woman would not be a husband to one wife, the same way you read that a man being a husband to one woman means that he isn't involved in polygamy (and I assume this would not exclude a widower who was remarried and had a second wife).

1 Tim 3:11 Women in like manner [must be] grave, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.

Sounds like the standard is being stated for female deacons (or deaconesses), especially when reading it in context of the rest of the verses in 1 Tim 3

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Paul by definition, even as a widower, was the "husband of one woman"

Paul didn't have a wife. the qualification isn't about marital history but marital status.

And why were women even mentioned in this passage if they are not also to be considered as deacons?

part of ruling your family well is making sure your wives are also on good behavior.

....and women still can't be husbands...or have authority over men as Paul says in the previous chapter. women ruling well would contradict what he said previous.

 

[blackribbon]

Paul didn't have a wife. the qualification isn't about marital history but marital status.


part of ruling your family well is making sure your wives are also on good behavior.

....and women still can't be husbands...or have authority over men as Paul says in the previous chapter. women ruling well would contradict what he said previous.

And Jesus didn't have a wife either...current or otherwise...well behaving or otherwise. He couldn't be a deacon in the church as you describe it. There is no mention of a single man being allowed to be deacon...and by your other requirements, it would seem necessary because until he is married, you would have no idea of what kind of woman he might marry in the future or if he would have her under control.

You can't have it both ways. Either you follow the letter of the law or you recognize that it was a guideline to have high standards for the people you chose as your church leadership. Verse 11 has no reference to being a description of a wife...just a godly woman. And since it is in the requirements for a deacon, then it seems to apply to the requirements of a female candidate for deacon...

 

[blackribbon]

1 Tim 2 also says that Adam was not deceived and that women have to have a baby in order to be saved. Do you believe that literally too?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

And Jesus didn't have a wife either...current or otherwise...well behaving or otherwise. He couldn't be a deacon in the church as you describe it.

He could be, since He didn't break the rules of having multiple wives. Paul wouldn't either, even if he married again.

Verse 11 has no reference to being a description of a wife...just a godly woman

and for the 3rd time....women can't be husbands. or have authority over men.

i'm really not interested in dealing with people's doctrinal hangups and absurdities so feel free to have the last word mmkay.

 

[blackribbon]

What is the role of a woman in God's church? To be quiet and obedient? Having less value than a child since a male child will eventually be allowed to be her superior?

 

[blackribbon]

Jesus used a woman to spread teach many about Him. John 4 tells the story of a Samaritan woman who lead scores of people (men included) to Jesus.

John 4:39-42
39 Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of his word. 42 They said to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world.”

Can you really see the Christian church that would have been established in Samaria telling this woman to sit down and shut up...and let the men do the teaching.