Is it truly bad to sin?

[Kees Hogenbirk]

Correction, one sins when they are led away and enticed by their own sensual desires.

So God did not create sensual desires?

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

No, that fruit is not evil and is not sin, but disobedience is. God did not create disobedience.

If God did not create disobedience, then where did it come from?
Does that mean that there is something that God didn't create?

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

Usually the simple questions are the best one in my opinion.

You have to first ask what is sin. Sin is basically anything against God's will.

Then you have to ask what constitutes as sin. Understanding that our flesh is driven to sinning, at what point is it considered sin. And that is two part, deals with the matters of the heart and in the matters of action. Basically its sin the moment you reject God's will. So that means, that even though you may have influences and temptation and thoughts that could lead you there, its when we accept it, thats when its sin. And time and time again, the Word mentions things like " Be angry but sin not" or " Jesus was tempted and not sinned" and even far back as to warning Cain to " be careful, because sin is crouching at the door".

So yes, sin by definition is bad. Sin also comes by choice, not by force. It requires some sort of decision making, reasoning, and action. So taking your example of the murderer. God presents a choice of life, and the choice of death, in everything, there are favorable and unfavorable consequences. The murderer knows that he does not have to murder, but chooses to murder. The sin is not in the existence of the opportunity but in the decision to take it. God knows the consequences of both, but does not force you to take a choice, then He wouldn't be a loving God. And not every choice set in stone your fate. That same murderer maybe ends up meeting with a Christian and get save in the jail cell and ends up saving millions of lives in a third world country through his ministries.Life isn't so linear, and it wouldnt be fair to only say that God made this happen for only the bad stuff. The same God thats there through bad choices is also there through good choices.Its a matter of what is the expected end for the person.

The penalty of dying in sin, is seperation from God. This is the only sure thing that one can conclude from their choices. That and that we all die, whether with warning or without one. And with that in mind, that is what make sin not only bad, but deadly.

I see. But if God is opposed to sin, then where does our desire to sin come from? Not from God?

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

Hey Kees! So, I believe that evil is a result of God giving us free will. I believe that agency (free will) was necessary to test who really loves God and who doesn't. Satan attacks mankind but those who love God withstand in the end. As a result of free will we have a sinful world which means trials but maybe the choices we make during those trials bring us closer to Christ, even though trials aren't good. Of course since we all have an inclination to sin we all will sin and it doesn't mean we don't love God, just that we are human. But if we have a knowledge of the word and love of God then we have a choice to accept or reject. Here's my theory. Satan was with God in heaven before the creation of the world, and I'm sure at some point everything was perfect but when Satan bore the desire to be God, everything got bad. God saw evil in heaven for the first time and had to cast Satan out. I believe God envisioned a plan for the creation of people and fellowship with him, but how could he know their true intentions if they didn't have free will? He wanted his people to CHOOSE good, not be born good. So Good created Adam and Eve with free will, and saw how man was prone to evil with free will. Like Satan, they were cast out of the bliss (garden of Eden) for sinning. But he showed them grace because they certainly did not equal Satan. Satan knew the full glory of God and wasn't satisfied. I think God knew (as with Job) that people who truly love him could withstand the attacks of Satan. I think that's the situation with all of us humans. Free will gives us the ability to know the love of Christ and accept, or to choose evil. If the love of God is strong within us we can make the right godly choices, and for those in the earth who don't know or don't believe, we have the power to witness. Ultimately, even though we have that free will and are prone to sin, I think that Jesus knew the power of his love could help is choose him and choose life if we let it. And he's pleased when we choose life, do good, reject sin. When we choose, it involves a decision. If we were all born good, it wouldn't involve a decision of the heart. And God's heart is after us.

I see. But then where did Satan's desire to sin come from?

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

Sin is not good...and Sin is not bad. All sin is just sin. They have their consequence and you can choose whether you want to accept them or not. God sets before us blessings and curses, life and death, and asks us to choose life. This does not require us to make a list of good and bad things....doing so, does not make us as gods...as the serpent would have us believe.....

Now that makes sense. So sin is not inherently bad, but the highest authority in this universe (God) simply sees it as bad and rewards or punishes us accordingly?

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

Not all thoughts that come into your mind necessarily originate from you, but unless you are possessed by a foreign spirit, which would be the something else inside of you that is controlling your actions, you are responsible for your own actions and what to do with those thoughts and those feelings that you have.

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. (Ephesians 2:1-2)​

I see. So if "I" control my actions, that what exactly is "I"? And what determines the actions of "I"?

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

Morally speaking, there is no objective way to decide what is good and what is bad. Whether something is good or bad is largely decided by individuals and consensus in a society.

However, sin is the transgression of the law, and this law is decided by God, not by us or the consensus of humans. In other words, sin can also be viewed as disobedience against God.

I see. So do you mean to say that sinning isn't inherently bad, but only bad in the eyes of the highest authority (God) who punishes (or rewards) us accordingly?

 

[salt-n-light]

I see. But if God is opposed to sin, then where does our desire to sin come from? Not from God?

It comes from Satan. At least the idea to desire

Look back to the Garden of Eden, was it God who convince Eve of eating the apple? No. Who started that conversation? Satan. But noticed, neither God nor Satan forced Eve to eat the apple. God only told Eve and Adam, that the tree exists and the consequences of both choices with a warning on one tree. But Satan convinces Eve about what choice she should choose, he presented a scenario that she ended up favoring.

Again, neither parties forced, because ultimately Eve had to be the one to reason and make a decision. And she did. She saw that it looked good, and she wanted to be wise, which means she reasoned with sin first. And then she took the fruit. But if you are asking who plant these ideas to sin, it would be Satan, just like who plant these ideas to not sin, it would be God. But we are the one that actually commits it. We are the ones that desire, desire comes through reasoning and connecting that with sensations, like Eve did, it looked good to the eyes, and she reasoned that she wanted to be wise. God cant force people to desire Him, just like Satan can't force people to desire him also. We are the ones that desire, it comes with our free will.

 

[Galilee63]

Yes.

More than we can ever imagine.

If you pray to our Lord Jesus Christ to be shown Holy Purgatory and Hell after repenting sins to Jesus from your heart in deep remorse, it is possible to be shown by Jesus in His Holy Divine Will.

What is in store for our Souls if not repenting to our Lord Jesus Christ our Merciful Saviour is not good and the sufferings here cannot be compared to the sufferings in Holy Purgatory of which is eternal high furnace firey heat purifying our souls sometimes for years with some Souls having endured up to 400 years because no-one prayed for them, no-one offered up Holy Masses, the Holy Divine Sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christs Holy Divine Flesh and Holy Divine Blood for them, no one offered up any daily sacrifices for them or good works of mercy from hearts offered to our Lord Jesus Christ for them or asked for Holy Masses to be said for them.

Through our Lords Precious Holy Blood we can be saved.

Without repentance of sins to our Lord Jesus Christ - our Lord Jesus said to His Holy Saints a soul has nothing without His Mercy. Without repentance of sins made to Jesus in genuine deep remorse from hearts our Lord says a soul has nothing without His Mercy. Our Lord says he favours humble souls/hearts approaching His Fount of mercy and Gods heavenly Favourites are Children of whom are humble and loves adults being humble and contrite to our Lord Jesus Christ confessing sins to Jesus.

Love to all

 

[Deniz]

Thank you for the great reponse.

First of all, if your spirit is being influenced by both the spirit of God and the force of sin, is it really YOU making the decisions, or does your choice to sin or not simply depend on which force (good or evil) happens to be stronger inside your own spirit?

And to answer your question on why I am asking these questions: To be honest, a part of me greatly enjoys doing sinful things and being able to experience the pain that results from those actions.
However, I also have the feeling that what I'm doing is 'bad'. And I don't wan't sinning to be bad. I wan't to BE ABLE to experience sin and pain in all freedom without having to worry about it being bad.
And the other problem is that I don't really have proof that sinning is bad. I mean, my higher self tells me it is bad, sure, but my sinful desires tell me that it is good. So who do i listen to?? Who is in the right??
If God really did create everything, including sin, then why would he create a bad desire in me? Is it really bad then?
And if God didn't create sin, then doesn't that mean that there is a force apart from God that makes me want to sin? And if so, who of the two forces should I listen to? God? Or sin?

Kees, please. This life is no game.

First of all, if your spirit is being influenced by both the spirit of God and the force of sin, is it really YOU making the decisions, or does your choice to sin or not simply depend on which force (good or evil) happens to be stronger inside your own spirit?

Yes it's really you making the decisions. Influence doesn't mean force, influence doesn't mean control. You know this, why do you go against it? It doesn't matter if a hundred people tell you to go jump of a cliff, it doesn't matter if someone is pointing a gun at you to murder a baby and eat its flesh, the choice is always yours and the truth prevails over all. God promises that you will NEVER be tempted beyond your ability to endure, so the way your present and understand "influence" means nothing; absolute nothing.

And to answer your question on why I am asking these questions: To be honest, a part of me greatly enjoys doing sinful things and being able to experience the pain that results from those actions.
However, I also have the feeling that what I'm doing is 'bad'. And I don't wan't sinning to be bad. I wan't to BE ABLE to experience sin and pain in all freedom without having to worry about it being bad.
And the other problem is that I don't really have proof that sinning is bad. I mean, my higher self tells me it is bad, sure, but my sinful desires tell me that it is good.

Kees, this is why you won't have any excuses if you were to die today and answer to God. You admit you know what you are doing is bad, and your conscience, your "higher self" tells you so; which is God Himself speaking and warning you. Your sinful desires only lust and rage with an animalistic, mindless lust; they don't ever tell you anything is "good". If you were to think just for a second about these sinful things, let's say pornography and masturbation as you mention, you can see there is no "good" in them, neither for you nor for the people involved nor the industry you indirectly support. It's corruption of heart and death of soul.

So who do i listen to?? Who is in the right??
If God really did create everything, including sin, then why would he create a bad desire in me? Is it really bad then?

You are making assumptions that are wrong; many people have already told you God did not give you the desires of sin nor did He create sin. When a person has a bad desire it isn't because God points a finger and says "have this bad desire and suffer".

James 1:13-16
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.

And if God didn't create sin, then doesn't that mean that there is a force apart from God that makes me want to sin? And if so, who of the two forces should I listen to? God? Or sin? So who do i listen to?? Who is in the right??

John 10:9-10
I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

Yes the Bible makes it very clear that there is another force that gives lust for sin. But you know EXACTLY who is in the right, you know exactly who to listen to. Even now your conscience is speaking to you, warning you with pleas yet you fight it; itching, seeking for affirmations to continue in your sin.

My good friend, please, this life is no game.
Who will you listen to, the Author and Giver of life or the one who kills, steals and destroys? Will you listen to the Truth Himself or the father of lies? Will you listen to the Creator Almighty or the one who is doomed for eternity and wants you to fall with him? Will you listen to the Holy One who calls you a son, a friend, beloved and means it, or an impersonal deceiver who calls you a friend to stab you in the back and throw you to flames; use you as a tool just so he can "prove a point" to God?

You said you like being able to enjoy, experience, do things. If you go to Hell there will only be suffering, UTTER, INEFFABLE SUFFERING. You look at the sins you've committed a week ago and ask yourself, where is all the pleasure from it? Where are its benefits? Do they mean anything to you, who now stand in the present time? Does the pleasure you've had from a sin a week ago bring any benefit at all, or does it call further into an unquenchable thirst to make you its slave? Do you even remember it?

There will come a time where none of those pleasures matter EVEN A TINY BIT. They will be as nothing and your grief will be to see they were no pleasures at all but you have missed out on the true thing because you've chosen to sear your conscience to follow an animalistic lust.

Kees the decision is very plain before you.

Please sit down and read the New Testament. You either believe in God, or you chose to sear your conscience by excusing yourself with faulty, pretense philosophies when you EXACTLY know what you should be doing and what you should not.

If you don't understand everything, that's fine. But this is no ticket for you to do whatever you want. If you don't understand you approach God, you don't walk away from Him.

This you have to understand, Lord Jesus Himself didn't die a most horrible death on a cross for nothing. If you are big into asking questions and wanting to understand, then try to understand why God Almighty Himself would do such a thing for you; and believe me it is not because so you keep on living in sin.

A holy life doesn't mean a boring, empty life devoid of joy. Don't let the darkness fool you, there is much joy and peace to be had with God. Please consider the pleas God is making with you, please don't murder your conscience to end up in eternal suffering and regret over what is a laughable nothing. Don't fall for the illusion, God is the only true giver of joy.

Psalm 16:11
You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

John 12:25
He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Please don't lose your eternal life for temporary worldly pleasures that amount to nothing in small time.

 

[Galilee63]

Our Lord Jesus on His Holy Divine Mercy delivered to Holy Saint Faustina with our Lord Jesus requesting mankind pray more for the Holy Souls in Purgatory, for the conversions and salvation of mankind



In 1933, God gave Sister Faustina a striking vision of His Mercy;
Sister tells us:

"I saw a great radiance, in the midst of it, God the Father. Between this radiance and the earth I saw Jesus, nailed to the Cross and in such a way that when God wanted to look at the earth, He had to look through the wounds of Jesus. And I understood that it was for the sake of Jesus that God blesses the earth." (Diary 60)

Of another vision on Sept. 13, 1935, she writes:

"....I saw an Angel, the executor of divine wrath... about to strike the earth...I found myself pleading with God for the world with words heard interiorly. As I was praying in this manner, I saw the Angel's helplessness; he could not carry out the just punishment...." (Diary 474)

Jesus said later to Sister Faustina:

"Say unceasingly this chaplet that I have taught you. Whoever will recite it will receive great Mercy at the hour of death. Priests will recommend it to sinners as their last hope of salvation. Even if there were a sinner most hardened, if he were to recite this Chaplet only once, he would receive grace from My Infinite Mercy. I desire that the whole world know My Infinite Mercy. I desire to grant unimaginable graces to those who trust in My Mercy...." (Diary 687)

"....When they say this Chaplet in the presence of the dying, I will stand between My Father and the dying person not as the just judge but as the Merciful Savior".

1. Begin with the Sign of the Cross, 1 Our Father, 1 Hail Mary and The Apostles Creed.

2. Then on the Our Father Beads say the following:
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.

3. On the 10 Hail Mary Beads say the following:
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

(Repeat step 2 and 3 for all five decades).

4. Conclude with (three times):
Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world.

Divine Mercy Novena


First Day

"Today bring to Me All Mankind, especially all sinners and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. In this way you will console Me in the bitter grief into which the loss of souls plunges Me."

Most Merciful Jesus, whose very nature it is to have compassion on us and to forgive us, do not look upon our sins, but upon our trust which we place in Your infinite goodness. Receive us all into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart, and never let us escape from It. We beg this of You by Your love which unites You to the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon all mankind and especially upon poor sinners, all enfolded in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion show us Your mercy, that we may praise the omnipotence of Your mercy for ever and ever. Amen.

Second Day
"Today bring to Me the Souls of Priests and Religious and immerse them in My unfathomable mercy. It was they who gave Me strength to endure My bitter Passion. Through them as through channels My mercy flows out upon mankind."

Most Merciful Jesus, from whom comes all that is good, increase Your grace in men and women consecrated to Your service, that they may perform worthy works of mercy, and that all who see them may glorify the Father of Mercy who is in heaven.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon the company of chosen ones in Your vineyard - upon the souls of priests and religious; and endow them with the strength of Your blessing. For the love of the Heart of Your Son in which they are enfolded, impart to them Your power and light, that they may be able to guide others in the way of salvation, and with one voice sing praise to Your boundless mercy for ages without end. Amen.

Third Day
"Today bring to Me All Devout and Faithful Souls and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. These souls brought Me consolation on the Way of the Cross. They were that drop of consolation in the midst of an ocean of bitterness."

Most Merciful Jesus, from the treasury of Your mercy, You impart Your graces in the great abundance to each and all. Receive us into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart and never let us escape from It. We beg this of You by that most wondrous love for the heavenly Father with which Your Heart burns so fiercely.

Eternal Father, turn Your Merciful gaze upon faithful souls, as upon the inheritance of Your Son. For the sake of His Sorrowful Passion, grant them Your blessing and surround them with Your constant protection. Thus may they never fail in love or lose the treasure of the holy faith, but rather, with all the hosts of Angels and Saints, may they glorify Your boundless mercy for endless ages. Amen.

Fourth Day
"Today bring to Me Those Who Do Not Believe In God and Those Who Do Not Yet Know Me. I was thinking also of them during My bitter Passion, and their future zeal comforted My heart. Immerse them in the ocean of My mercy."

Most Compassionate Jesus, You are the Light of the whole world. Receive into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart the souls of those who do not believe in God and of those who as yet do not know You. Let the rays of Your grace enlighten them that they, too, together with us, may extol Your wonderful mercy; and do not let them escape from the abode which is Your Most Compassionate Heart.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon the souls of those who do not believe in You, and of those who as yet do not know You, but who are enclosed in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. Draw them to the light of the Gospel. These souls do not know what great happiness it is to love You. Grant that they, too, may extol the generosity of Your mercy for endless ages. Amen.

Fifth Day
"Today bring to Me the Souls of those who have separated themselves from My Church and immerse them in the ocean of My mercy. During My bitter Passion they tore at My Body and Heart, that is My Church. As they return to unity with the Church My wounds heal and in this way they alleviate My Passion."

Most Merciful Jesus, Goodness Itself, You do not refuse light to those who seek it of You. Receive into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart the souls of those who have separated themselves from Your Church. Draw them by Your light into the unity of the Church, and do not let them escape from the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart; but bring it about that they, too, come to glorify the generosity of Your mercy.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon the souls of those who have separated themselves from Your Son's Church, who have squandered Your blessings and misused Your graces obstinately persisting in their errors. Do not look upon their errors, but upon the love of Your Own Son and upon His bitter Passion, which He underwent for their sake, since they, too, are enclosed in His Most Compassionate Heart. Bring it about that they also may glorify Your great mercy for endless ages. Amen.

Sixth Day
"Today bring to Me The Meek and Humble Souls and the Souls of Little Children and immerse them in My mercy. These souls most closely resemble My Heart. They strengthened Me during My bitter agony. I saw them as earthly Angels who will keep vigil at My altars. I pour out upon them whole torrents of grace. Only the humble soul is capable of receiving My grace. I favor humble souls with My confidence."

Most Merciful Jesus, You Yourself have said, "Learn from Me for I am meek and humble of heart." Receive into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart all meek and humble souls and the souls of little children. These souls send all heaven into ecstasy, and they are the heavenly Father's favorites. They are a sweet-smelling bouquet before the throne of God; God Himself takes delight in their fragrance. These souls have a permanent abode in Your Most Compassionate Heart, O Jesus, and they unceasingly sing out a hymn of love and mercy.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon meek souls, upon humble souls and upon little children, who are enfolded in the abode of the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. These souls bear the closest resemblance to Your Son. Their fragrance rises from the earth and reaches Your very throne. Father of mercy and of all goodness, I beg You by the love You bear these souls and by the delight you take in them: Bless the whole world, that all souls together may sing out the praises of Your mercy for endless ages. Amen.

Seventh Day
"Today bring to Me The Souls Who Especially Venerate and Glorify My Mercy and immerse them in My mercy. These souls sorrowed most over my Passion and entered most deeply into My spirit. They are living images of My Compassionate Heart. These souls will shine with a special brightness in the next life. Not one of them will go into the fire of hell. I shall particularly defend each one of them at the hour of death."

Most Merciful Jesus, whose Heart is Love Itself, receive into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart the souls of those who particularly extol and venerate the greatness of Your Mercy. These souls are mighty with the very power of God Himself. In the midst of all afflictions and adversities they go forward, confident in Your Mercy; and united to You, O Jesus, they carry all mankind on their shoulders. These souls will not be judged severely, but Your mercy will embrace them as they depart from this life.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon the souls who glorify and venerate Your greatest attribute, that of Your fathomless mercy, and who are enclosed in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. These souls are a living Gospel; their hands are full of deeds of mercy and their hearts, overflowing with joy, sing a canticle of mercy to You, O Most High! I beg You O God: Show them Your mercy according to the hope and trust they have placed in You. Let there be accomplished in them the promise of Jesus, who said to them that during their life, but especially at the hour of death, the souls who will venerate this fathomless mercy of His, He Himself, will defend as His glory. Amen.

Eighth Day
"Today bring to Me The Souls Who Are Detained in Purgatory and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. Let the torrents of My Blood cool down their scorching flames. All these souls are greatly loved by Me. They are making retribution to My justice. It is in your power to bring them relief. Draw all the indulgences from the treasury of My Church and offer them on their behalf. Oh, if you only know the torments they suffer, you would continually offer for them the alms of the spirit and pay off their debt to My justice."

Most Merciful Jesus, You Yourself have said that You desire mercy; so I bring into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart the souls in Purgatory, souls who are very dear to You, and yet who must make retribution to Your justice. May the streams of Blood and Water which gushed forth from Your Heart put out the flames of Purgatory, that there, too, the power of Your mercy may be celebrated.

Eternal Father, turn Your most merciful gaze upon the souls suffering in Purgatory, who are enfolded in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. I beg You, by the sorrowful Passion of Jesus Your Son, and by all the bitterness with which His most sacred Soul was flooded, manifest Your mercy to the souls who are under Your just scrutiny. Look upon them in no other way but only through the Wounds of Jesus, Your dearly beloved Son; for we firmly believe that there is no limit to Your goodness and compassion. Amen.

Ninth Day
"Today bring to Me The Souls Who Have Become Lukewarm and immerse them in the abyss of My mercy. These souls wound My Heart most painfully. My soul suffered the most dreadful loathing in the Garden of Olives because of lukewarm souls. They were the reason I cried out: 'Father, take this cup away from Me, if it be Your will.' For them the last hope of salvation is to run to My mercy."

Most Compassionate Jesus, You are Compassion Itself. I bring lukewarm souls into the abode of Your Most Compassionate Heart. In this fire of Your pure love let these tepid souls, who, like
corpses, filled You with such deep loathing, be once again set aflame. O Most Compassionate Jesus, exercise the omnipotence of Your mercy and draw them into the very ardor of Your love; and bestow upon them the gift of holy love, for nothing is beyond Your power.

Eternal Father, turn Your merciful gaze upon lukewarm souls who are nonetheless enfolded in the Most Compassionate Heart of Jesus. Father of Mercy, I beg You by the bitter Passion of Your Son and by His three-hour agony on the Cross: let them, too, glorify the abyss of Your mercy. Amen

 

[Galilee63]

Sister Faustina's Vision of Hell

"I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence...the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell." (Diary 741)

The Apostle of Divine Mercy
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska
of the
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy


"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:
The First Torture that constitutes hell is:
The loss of God.
The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.
The Third is
That one's condition will never change.
The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God's anger.
The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.
The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.
The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.

I would have died
There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

No One Can Say There is No Hell
Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like...how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God's mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)

 

[Galilee63]

deleted post this one

 

[Galilee63]

If you go back and read Gods Holy Divine Word at the very beginning commencing with adam and eve in the garden you will comprehend what happened when satan tempted adam and eve luring them to commit sins after being warned by God our Heavenly Father and Holy Spirit and our Lord Jesus Christ, for our Lord Jesus Christ has been Present in Heaven since the laying of the Foundations of the earth with God The Most High and Holy Spirit then choosing to descend from Heaven to Earth to bring His Mercy to those whom turn to Him during lives here and whom repent sins to Jesus in deep remorse and sorrow to Him.

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

Kees, please. This life is no game.



Yes it's really you making the decisions. Influence doesn't mean force, influence doesn't mean control. You know this, why do you go against it? It doesn't matter if a hundred people tell you to go jump of a cliff, it doesn't matter if someone is pointing a gun at you to murder a baby and eat its flesh, the choice is always yours and the truth prevails over all. God promises that you will NEVER be tempted beyond your ability to endure, so the way your present and understand "influence" means nothing; absolute nothing.



Kees, this is why you won't have any excuses if you were to die today and answer to God. You admit you know what you are doing is bad, and your conscience, your "higher self" tells you so; which is God Himself speaking and warning you. Your sinful desires only lust and rage with an animalistic, mindless lust; they don't ever tell you anything is "good". If you were to think just for a second about these sinful things, let's say pornography and masturbation as you mention, you can see there is no "good" in them, neither for you nor for the people involved nor the industry you indirectly support. It's corruption of heart and death of soul.



You are making assumptions that are wrong; many people have already told you God did not give you the desires of sin nor did He create sin. When a person has a bad desire it isn't because God points a finger and says "have this bad desire and suffer".

James 1:13-16
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.



John 10:9-10
I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy.
I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.

Yes the Bible makes it very clear that there is another force that gives lust for sin. But you know EXACTLY who is in the right, you know exactly who to listen to. Even now your conscience is speaking to you, warning you with pleas yet you fight it; itching, seeking for affirmations to continue in your sin.

My good friend, please, this life is no game.
Who will you listen to, the Author and Giver of life or the one who kills, steals and destroys? Will you listen to the Truth Himself or the father of lies? Will you listen to the Creator Almighty or the one who is doomed for eternity and wants you to fall with him? Will you listen to the Holy One who calls you a son, a friend, beloved and means it, or an impersonal deceiver who calls you a friend to stab you in the back and throw you to flames; use you as a tool just so he can "prove a point" to God?

You said you like being able to enjoy, experience, do things. If you go to Hell there will only be suffering, UTTER, INEFFABLE SUFFERING. You look at the sins you've committed a week ago and ask yourself, where is all the pleasure from it? Where are its benefits? Do they mean anything to you, who now stand in the present time? Does the pleasure you've had from a sin a week ago bring any benefit at all, or does it call further into an unquenchable thirst to make you its slave? Do you even remember it?

There will come a time where none of those pleasures matter EVEN A TINY BIT. They will be as nothing and your grief will be to see they were no pleasures at all but you have missed out on the true thing because you've chosen to sear your conscience to follow an animalistic lust.

Kees the decision is very plain before you.

Please sit down and read the New Testament. You either believe in God, or you chose to sear your conscience by excusing yourself with faulty, pretense philosophies when you EXACTLY know what you should be doing and what you should not.

If you don't understand everything, that's fine. But this is no ticket for you to do whatever you want. If you don't understand you approach God, you don't walk away from Him.

This you have to understand, Lord Jesus Himself didn't die a most horrible death on a cross for nothing. If you are big into asking questions and wanting to understand, then try to understand why God Almighty Himself would do such a thing for you; and believe me it is not because so you keep on living in sin.

A holy life doesn't mean a boring, empty life devoid of joy. Don't let the darkness fool you, there is much joy and peace to be had with God. Please consider the pleas God is making with you, please don't murder your conscience to end up in eternal suffering and regret over what is a laughable nothing. Don't fall for the illusion, God is the only true giver of joy.

Psalm 16:11
You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.

James 1:5
If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.

John 12:25
He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

Please don't lose your eternal life for temporary worldly pleasures that amount to nothing in small time.

This has to be the single best response to my question. Thank you so much for all your efforts to help me understand things.

However, there is still a single question that still lingers in my mind.
But first of all, let me see if I'm understanding you completely.
What you say is that yes, we INDEED are responsible for our own sinful actions. This is because God DID NOT create sin, which in turn means that there is ANOTHER force apart from God's creation which influences us.
God (via my conscience/'higher self') tries to point me into the direction of good.
Meanwhile the other force (I'll call it 'the force of Sin') tries to tempt me into the direction of bad (sinning).

My last question then is (and I am absolutely serious about this): "What option should I take, good or evil?"
I get it, God makes me want to do good, and the force of sin wants to make me do evil.
But HOW do I know that I should listen to God, and not the force of sin?
If I were to ask God whether I should take the path to good or evil, he would undoubtedly answer with "the path to good". But if I were to ask the same question to the force of sin, it would probably tell me that I should sin and take the path of evil.
Also, I FULLY UNDERSTAND that eternal suffering awaits me if I choose to disobey God, but does that make it THE WRONG OPTION?
I just want to know, is sinning INHERENTLY bad, or is ONLY bad in the eyes of our Lord?
Because the force of sin itself probably doesn't think that it itself is BAD, otherwise it would not exist.
For example: A communist would probably tell me that communism is the right option.
But a capitalist would probaly tell me that capitalism is the right option.
God tells me that good is the right option. The force of sin tells me that sin/evil is the right option.
How do I know who is INHERENTLY right?

Finally, thank you for your patience with me. I know I can we a lot to handle in a conversation sometimes, but I really want to know WHY it is that I should listen to god and NOT to sin, while both forces are directing me to different paths.
If i were to follow God without knowing why following him, and not sin is the right thing to do, I would never be able to follow him in my heart of hearts. That is just how I see it.

I look forward to your answer, my friend.
And again, thank you so much.

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

This has to be the single best response to my question. Thank you so much for all your efforts to help me understand things.

However, there is still a single question that still lingers in my mind.
But first of all, let me see if I'm understanding you completely.
What you say is that yes, we INDEED are responsible for our own sinful actions. This is because God DID NOT create sin, which in turn means that there is ANOTHER force apart from God's creation which influences us.
God (via my conscience/'higher self') tries to point me into the direction of good.
Meanwhile the other force (I'll call it 'the force of Sin') tries to tempt me into the direction of bad (sinning).

My last question then is (and I am absolutely serious about this): "What option should I take, good or evil?"
I get it, God makes me want to do good, and the force of sin wants to make me do evil.
But HOW do I know that I should listen to God, and not the force of sin?
If I were to ask God whether I should take the path to good or evil, he would undoubtedly answer with "the path to good". But if I were to ask the same question to the force of sin, it would probably tell me that I should sin and take the path of evil.
Also, I FULLY UNDERSTAND that eternal suffering awaits me if I choose to disobey God, but does that make it THE WRONG OPTION?
I just want to know, is sinning INHERENTLY bad, or is ONLY bad in the eyes of our Lord?
Because the force of sin itself probably doesn't think that it itself is BAD, otherwise it would not exist.
For example: A communist would probably tell me that communism is the right option.
But a capitalist would probaly tell me that capitalism is the right option.
God tells me that good is the right option. The force of sin tells me that sin/evil is the right option.
How do I know who is INHERENTLY right?

Finally, thank you for your patience with me. I know I can we a lot to handle in a conversation sometimes, but I really want to know WHY it is that I should listen to god and NOT to sin, while both forces are directing me to different paths.
If i were to follow God without knowing why following him, and not sin is the right thing to do, I would never be able to follow him in my heart of hearts. That is just how I see it.

I look forward to your answer, my friend.
And again, thank you so much.

 

[MournfulWatcher]

Wow, what a clear and extensive answer. Thank you so much!
I do still have a few questions, though.

First of all, I get that you say that God did not create good, because he IS goodness to begin with.
But how can it be that God did not create evil? That would mean that God DIDN'T create everything in existence, right?

Second of all, in response to the analogy of the child and his choices; If my future child would harm another person out of revenge, I would not blame him for his feelings, and the actions that those feelings triggered.
I would however talk with him about what he did, how it hurts both him and his victim, and how much I'm disappointed with his action. Also, I would do my best to help him make it right, and to make more preferable choices in the future.
But I would not BLAME him for the dark feelings in his heart, and the actions that arose from them. Because he did not choose to have those feelings.
So in that same sense I find it strange that God blames me for my sinning, because I too did not choose to have sinful feelings in my heart, and I have to work day in, day out to keep myself from not sinning, and sometimes I falter, and I do sin. So why should I be blamed for that? I understand that he is concerned and disappointed in me, but why is it bad what I did? Why am I to blame?

And finally, yes, there are indeed many people that choose for the light in the midst of darkness. However, are those people not 'lucky' to be granted such a strong will by God? And are the people that choose darkness over light not simple 'unlucky' because God didn't bestow them with a strong sense of will? If anybody could make any choice, then why would not everybody choose for the light all the time?

Thank you so much again for your reply. I look forward to yours. Thank you!

God didn't create evil, because evil is a concept opposite to good. It exists tacitly because goodness exists, as a necessary opposite. God, by existing as a being with ultimate free will, could choose to be evil, but He won't because He is goodness. Wherever there is free will, the ability to choose evil is there, too. God is unchanging, meaning He has always had free will, meaning that he could have chosen to do evil (but doesn't), meaning that evil has always been a concept in one form or another. It was not created by God in the sense that He invented it, but it exists because God exists as a good being with free-will.

To your point about not blaming your child, you are correct in that you can't blame people for their feelings. However, you can certainly blame them for their actions. Even as you say you would not blame him for his actions, you simultaneously admit that you would be disappointed with his actions and that he should make it right. Even as you use this example to deny my own example, you still are functioning under the belief that we are accountable for our actions. So why should God not also hold you responsible?

So, do feelings take away our ability to make choices? No. We can be influenced by them, certainly. But we also hold the power to change them, to an extent, and even if not to change them, to do the right thing anyway. Our brains are much more plastic than people tend to assume; we have the ability to change our brain chemistry through many different means such as our food, our exercise, and our thoughts especially. Some people may struggle more than others, but the vast majority of people are capable of changing it from at least somewhat.

As for people being lucky to have such strong wills, I ask why you assume that some have stronger wills than others. I personally say that a will is something you can strengthen by pure intention and experience. It's the same thing that I was saying about brain chemistry; people are capable of developing it of their own accord. Ultimately, everyone's will is weak, until they choose to make it stronger. For example, I have OCD, and the symptoms used to be very severe. I would fall into repetitive, anxious thinking that led to much misery. There is a cycle involved with OCD that continues over and over in your mind. The trick to freeing yourself from the cycle is breaking it, and it's not a one-time thing. You do it by repetition of practices, learning to catch yourself in fearful thinking and then changing course in your mind. When done over and over, it eventually becomes easier to not let your mind fall into the habit of obsessive thinking and compulsive behavior. I now rarely struggle with my anxiety. You do similar practices to help master any other area of your life, be it your will or your selflessness, any healthy thing you want to develop. We are all capable of development.

 

[SolomonVII]

Hello men and women of God! This is my first post here.

I have been thinking a lot lately about the nature of sin, and I would dearly appreciate it if you guys would help me with answering this question. So thank you in advance!

Here is my question. Plain and simply: "Is sinning bad?"
Of course we all assume that sinning is bad, because it is written in the bible, but there are some questions that lead me to doubt that. Namely...

"Why did God create evil and sin in this world?"
You could say that that God did not create us to do evil, but that he gave us free will, so that if we choose evil, we face the consequences and it we choose good, we are rewarded with God's grace.

But then here is my real question: "If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then why does he create people that he knows will sin? And is sinning then really bad?"
Let's say God creates a person and grants him free will. However, God also created that person with a mental instability / weak will (which, let's assume makes him prone to murderous acts). Subsequently, let's say God then also places that person in an environment with abusive parents at home and frequent bullying at school (which, let's assume, combined with his mental instability causes him to commit murder) And so, he shoots up his class. This is an example, but I'm sure cases like this have actually happened in real life.
In such a case, can the murderer then really be held responsible for his actions? I mean,
-(1) He was born and raised with triggers that would undoubtedly (to God) lead him to commit a murderous act.
-(2) God, while all-powerful and all-knowing knew he would murder, yet did nothing about the sinful act.
If God created the person's will and circumstance, knew the outcome of his sin, and did nohing about it, was is then truly 'bad' for the murderer to commit murder?

"Is sinning bad?" may sound like a strange question, but I am seriously pondering it, and I would appreciate it greatly if you fellow Christians would help me out. So thanks!

Greets, Kees

The bottom line of why God created anything at all is that all was created for the greater glory of God. Infinite suffering exits to demonstrate that God, dying on the cross, is greater than the greatest suffering. Great evil exists in order to demonstrate that the goodness of God is greater.

In terms of any action that we take, there is always good and better, and bad and worse. Morality defines the terms of our lives, and not God's. Everybody is triggered to sin, but not everybody sins in every particular instance. It is possible for us to overcome our triggers to sin too, and by doing so, we glorify God, who is goodness.

 

[Kees Hogenbirk]

God didn't create evil, because evil is a concept opposite to good. It exists tacitly because goodness exists, as a necessary opposite. God, by existing as a being with ultimate free will, could choose to be evil, but He won't because He is goodness. Wherever there is free will, the ability to choose evil is there, too. God is unchanging, meaning He has always had free will, meaning that he could have chosen to do evil (but doesn't), meaning that evil has always been a concept in one form or another. It was not created by God in the sense that He invented it, but it exists because God exists as a good being with free-will.

To your point about not blaming your child, you are correct in that you can't blame people for their feelings. However, you can certainly blame them for their actions. Even as you say you would not blame him for his actions, you simultaneously admit that you would be disappointed with his actions and that he should make it right. Even as you use this example to deny my own example, you still are functioning under the belief that we are accountable for our actions. So why should God not also hold you responsible?

So, do feelings take away our ability to make choices? No. We can be influenced by them, certainly. But we also hold the power to change them, to an extent, and even if not to change them, to do the right thing anyway. Our brains are much more plastic than people tend to assume; we have the ability to change our brain chemistry through many different means such as our food, our exercise, and our thoughts especially. Some people may struggle more than others, but the vast majority of people are capable of changing it from at least somewhat.

As for people being lucky to have such strong wills, I ask why you assume that some have stronger wills than others. I personally say that a will is something you can strengthen by pure intention and experience. It's the same thing that I was saying about brain chemistry; people are capable of developing it of their own accord. Ultimately, everyone's will is weak, until they choose to make it stronger. For example, I have OCD, and the symptoms used to be very severe. I would fall into repetitive, anxious thinking that led to much misery. There is a cycle involved with OCD that continues over and over in your mind. The trick to freeing yourself from the cycle is breaking it, and it's not a one-time thing. You do it by repetition of practices, learning to catch yourself in fearful thinking and then changing course in your mind. When done over and over, it eventually becomes easier to not let your mind fall into the habit of obsessive thinking and compulsive behavior. I now rarely struggle with my anxiety. You do similar practices to help master any other area of your life, be it your will or your selflessness, any healthy thing you want to develop. We are all capable of development.

About the child scenario:
I don't blame him for his actions, because his feelings and/or circumstances triggered him to commit them.
I am disappointed in his actions.
I think he should make his actions right.
How am I functioning under the assumpion that the kid can be held accountable for his actions?

And then about the question of strong and weak wills:
Say there are 2 people who are addicted to drugs. 1 fights the addiction and recovers, 1 loses the fight and stays addicted.
If we assume they have lived relatively similar lifes, than what REALLY is the difference between the two?
Why did 1 recover, and 1 lose the fight?

 

[Loren T.]

This has to be the single best response to my question. Thank you so much for all your efforts to help me understand things.

However, there is still a single question that still lingers in my mind.
But first of all, let me see if I'm understanding you completely.
What you say is that yes, we INDEED are responsible for our own sinful actions. This is because God DID NOT create sin, which in turn means that there is ANOTHER force apart from God's creation which influences us.
God (via my conscience/'higher self') tries to point me into the direction of good.
Meanwhile the other force (I'll call it 'the force of Sin') tries to tempt me into the direction of bad (sinning).

My last question then is (and I am absolutely serious about this): "What option should I take, good or evil?"
I get it, God makes me want to do good, and the force of sin wants to make me do evil.
But HOW do I know that I should listen to God, and not the force of sin?
If I were to ask God whether I should take the path to good or evil, he would undoubtedly answer with "the path to good". But if I were to ask the same question to the force of sin, it would probably tell me that I should sin and take the path of evil.
Also, I FULLY UNDERSTAND that eternal suffering awaits me if I choose to disobey God, but does that make it THE WRONG OPTION?
I just want to know, is sinning INHERENTLY bad, or is ONLY bad in the eyes of our Lord?
Because the force of sin itself probably doesn't think that it itself is BAD, otherwise it would not exist.
For example: A communist would probably tell me that communism is the right option.
But a capitalist would probaly tell me that capitalism is the right option.
God tells me that good is the right option. The force of sin tells me that sin/evil is the right option.
How do I know who is INHERENTLY right?

Finally, thank you for your patience with me. I know I can we a lot to handle in a conversation sometimes, but I really want to know WHY it is that I should listen to god and NOT to sin, while both forces are directing me to different paths.
If i were to follow God without knowing why following him, and not sin is the right thing to do, I would never be able to follow him in my heart of hearts. That is just how I see it.

I look forward to your answer, my friend.
And again, thank you so much.

Romans 6:23
Why would you choose death over life? Do you really believe death can be the right option? Once you fully grasp that sin is not fun, it is not good in anyway, shape or form, that it only leads you to self destruction, how can you ask the question, which is good? Everyone wants to be happy, everyone wants love and life. These thing are only found in God. The absence of God is the absence of anything good. Whatever temporary pleasure you get from sin will soon fade and you will go deeper and deeper trying to get it back. God desires only your good and life and joy...sin desires nothing but your death.
Corinthians 6:19