Is it truly bad to sin?

[salt-n-light]

Hello men and women of God! This is my first post here.

I have been thinking a lot lately about the nature of sin, and I would dearly appreciate it if you guys would help me with answering this question. So thank you in advance!

Here is my question. Plain and simply: "Is sinning bad?"
Of course we all assume that sinning is bad, because it is written in the bible, but there are some questions that lead me to doubt that. Namely...

"Why did God create evil and sin in this world?"
You could say that that God did not create us to do evil, but that he gave us free will, so that if we choose evil, we face the consequences and it we choose good, we are rewarded with God's grace.

But then here is my real question: "If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then why does he create people that he knows will sin? And is sinning then really bad?"
Let's say God creates a person and grants him free will. However, God also created that person with a mental instability / weak will (which, let's assume makes him prone to murderous acts). Subsequently, let's say God then also places that person in an environment with abusive parents at home and frequent bullying at school (which, let's assume, combined with his mental instability causes him to commit murder) And so, he shoots up his class. This is an example, but I'm sure cases like this have actually happened in real life.
In such a case, can the murderer then really be held responsible for his actions? I mean,
-(1) He was born and raised with triggers that would undoubtedly (to God) lead him to commit a murderous act.
-(2) God, while all-powerful and all-knowing knew he would murder, yet did nothing about the sinful act.
If God created the person's will and circumstance, knew the outcome of his sin, and did nohing about it, was is then truly 'bad' for the murderer to commit murder?

"Is sinning bad?" may sound like a strange question, but I am seriously pondering it, and I would appreciate it greatly if you fellow Christians would help me out. So thanks!

Greets, Kees

Usually the simple questions are the best one in my opinion.

You have to first ask what is sin. Sin is basically anything against God's will.

Then you have to ask what constitutes as sin. Understanding that our flesh is driven to sinning, at what point is it considered sin. And that is two part, deals with the matters of the heart and in the matters of action. Basically its sin the moment you reject God's will. So that means, that even though you may have influences and temptation and thoughts that could lead you there, its when we accept it, thats when its sin. And time and time again, the Word mentions things like " Be angry but sin not" or " Jesus was tempted and not sinned" and even far back as to warning Cain to " be careful, because sin is crouching at the door".

So yes, sin by definition is bad. Sin also comes by choice, not by force. It requires some sort of decision making, reasoning, and action. So taking your example of the murderer. God presents a choice of life, and the choice of death, in everything, there are favorable and unfavorable consequences. The murderer knows that he does not have to murder, but chooses to murder. The sin is not in the existence of the opportunity but in the decision to take it. God knows the consequences of both, but does not force you to take a choice, then He wouldn't be a loving God. And not every choice set in stone your fate. That same murderer maybe ends up meeting with a Christian and get save in the jail cell and ends up saving millions of lives in a third world country through his ministries.Life isn't so linear, and it wouldnt be fair to only say that God made this happen for only the bad stuff. The same God thats there through bad choices is also there through good choices.Its a matter of what is the expected end for the person.

The penalty of dying in sin, is seperation from God. This is the only sure thing that one can conclude from their choices. That and that we all die, whether with warning or without one. And with that in mind, that is what make sin not only bad, but deadly.

 

[1stcenturylady]

No it would not

Then act on the word of God, not the teachings of men, especially false teachers who teach 1 John 1:8 and Romans 7 in error. Didn't the color coding help? I couldn't make it any clearer if I tried. Paul did a very good job on his own.

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

Hello men and women of God! This is my first post here.

I have been thinking a lot lately about the nature of sin, and I would dearly appreciate it if you guys would help me with answering this question. So thank you in advance!

Here is my question. Plain and simply: "Is sinning bad?"
Of course we all assume that sinning is bad, because it is written in the bible, but there are some questions that lead me to doubt that. Namely...

"Why did God create evil and sin in this world?"
You could say that that God did not create us to do evil, but that he gave us free will, so that if we choose evil, we face the consequences and it we choose good, we are rewarded with God's grace.

But then here is my real question: "If God is all-powerful and all-knowing, then why does he create people that he knows will sin? And is sinning then really bad?"
Let's say God creates a person and grants him free will. However, God also created that person with a mental instability / weak will (which, let's assume makes him prone to murderous acts). Subsequently, let's say God then also places that person in an environment with abusive parents at home and frequent bullying at school (which, let's assume, combined with his mental instability causes him to commit murder) And so, he shoots up his class. This is an example, but I'm sure cases like this have actually happened in real life.
In such a case, can the murderer then really be held responsible for his actions? I mean,
-(1) He was born and raised with triggers that would undoubtedly (to God) lead him to commit a murderous act.
-(2) God, while all-powerful and all-knowing knew he would murder, yet did nothing about the sinful act.
If God created the person's will and circumstance, knew the outcome of his sin, and did nohing about it, was is then truly 'bad' for the murderer to commit murder?

"Is sinning bad?" may sound like a strange question, but I am seriously pondering it, and I would appreciate it greatly if you fellow Christians would help me out. So thanks!

Greets, Kees

Hey Kees! So, I believe that evil is a result of God giving us free will. I believe that agency (free will) was necessary to test who really loves God and who doesn't. Satan attacks mankind but those who love God withstand in the end. As a result of free will we have a sinful world which means trials but maybe the choices we make during those trials bring us closer to Christ, even though trials aren't good. Of course since we all have an inclination to sin we all will sin and it doesn't mean we don't love God, just that we are human. But if we have a knowledge of the word and love of God then we have a choice to accept or reject. Here's my theory. Satan was with God in heaven before the creation of the world, and I'm sure at some point everything was perfect but when Satan bore the desire to be God, everything got bad. God saw evil in heaven for the first time and had to cast Satan out. I believe God envisioned a plan for the creation of people and fellowship with him, but how could he know their true intentions if they didn't have free will? He wanted his people to CHOOSE good, not be born good. So Good created Adam and Eve with free will, and saw how man was prone to evil with free will. Like Satan, they were cast out of the bliss (garden of Eden) for sinning. But he showed them grace because they certainly did not equal Satan. Satan knew the full glory of God and wasn't satisfied. I think God knew (as with Job) that people who truly love him could withstand the attacks of Satan. I think that's the situation with all of us humans. Free will gives us the ability to know the love of Christ and accept, or to choose evil. If the love of God is strong within us we can make the right godly choices, and for those in the earth who don't know or don't believe, we have the power to witness. Ultimately, even though we have that free will and are prone to sin, I think that Jesus knew the power of his love could help is choose him and choose life if we let it. And he's pleased when we choose life, do good, reject sin. When we choose, it involves a decision. If we were all born good, it wouldn't involve a decision of the heart. And God's heart is after us.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Of course since we all have an inclination to sin we all will sin and it doesn't mean we don't love God, just that we are human.

Do you know what that is called - that inclination to sin? It is called the sin nature - the carnal nature - the old man - the flesh.

Does Christ leave us with that sin nature intact? Scripture please.

 

[bcbsr]

A great answer. Thank you very much. I still have a question however.
If it is not external factors that ultimately control our choice to sin or not, then what is it exactly that determines 'self-determination'? What makes us humans do what we do, if not biology, thoughts, feelings, upbringing and other circumstances?
Do you mean to say that the actions of a person (the 'self') are driven by a force that God CANNOT control? But if we are completely free to make all of our own decisions, and God can't control us that way, is God really all-powerful?

This is a serious question, and I want you to know that I am against murder, of course.
Thank you in advance for your answer, my friend.

Well, like term indicates "self-determination" is determined by one's self. We're not puppets. Though we're only semi-autonomous. And as I mentioned there are influences. I think advertising is an example. Advertisers want to have some magic formula which forces people to buy their product. But in reality all they can do is have some influence and the individual makes up their own mind.

Yes, the implication of being semi-autonomous is that God has granted us a degree of freedom independent of himself. Calvinists may disagree with me as they've developed a theological construct in which people are in fact mere puppets. A fundamental issue is that if God is just he cannot condemn people for things over which they have no actual control, being mere puppets. Such a theological construct would then portray hell as not a place where justice is satisfied, but rather simply that God is playing with dolls and discards them in the fire.

If God is in control of everything, then he's in control of people's decision to sin, and thus God himself would be guilty of sin. The objection is the theory that if God is not in control of everything then God is not God. I would argue that if God cannot create semi-autonomous beings, if that's not in his power, then he's not God, being limited in his power.

The bottom line with regards to how God is defined, the fact is, God defines himself. And it seems very clear to me that God is just and is capable of creating semi-autonomous creatures.

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

Hello Valetic. And thank you for your answer.

I admire your humbleness in admitting not to know all of God's ways.
However, if assuming that everything that God does is for a good reason, doesn't that then mean that all sinning is also for a good reason?
If someone shoots a man dead, is that something that God has allowed for a good reason?

Thank you in advance for your answer.
Greets, Kees

He gave us free will, which means the ability for us to sin, but he also exposed his overpowering love and died for us, which keeps us from doing wrong. One way God shares the Holy Spirit is through the word, through his laws and teachings. When we feel that, if we don't reject the Spirit, we're convicted to do good. So, some of this world does not understand the love of God and that is why they do wrong. They know not what they do. But good can come from those who make bad decisions because the Apostle Paul was a murderer of Christians/same bad life with Rahab. They did bad things because they didn't know the love of God but both turned from their ways. I've learned some truths (at least personal truths):
1) people who do horrible things are unknowing of God's love and ways or rejecting of them
2) we need to witness to those who don't know the love and do horrible things because as shown in the Bible, God's love turns people away from sin.

Free will means we have a sinful nature but God offers everyone the ability to experience his love, which enables us to actually do good. We must not lose hope because we can help bring God's love to those who don't know it.

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

Do you know what that is called - that inclination to sin? It is called the sin nature - the carnal nature - the old man - the flesh.

Does Christ leave us with that sin nature intact? Scripture please.

Hey 1stcenturylady, yes. I believe that we are saved by grace through faith and that justifies us. That inclination is the sinful nature. We feel inclined to sin because we were born sinful. But the holy spirit inside us sanctifies us and makes us good. We're good not because we were born perfect (because we're not) but because his grace covers us when we sin. It no longer defines us. His sacrifice alone makes us good and it is God himself who works through us. We need Him to be good.
I never said he leaves the nature in tact. But there will always be a battle between the flesh and spirit. By the spirit we have the power to choose good, and ask for forgiveness when we stumble!

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

Do you know what that is called - that inclination to sin? It is called the sin nature - the carnal nature - the old man - the flesh.
I'm just saying we will all sin at some point.
Does Christ leave us with that sin nature intact? Scripture please.

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

I'm just saying we will all sin at some point.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Hey 1stcenturylady, yes. I believe that we are saved by grace through faith and that justifies us. That inclination is the sinful nature. We feel inclined to sin because we were born sinful. But the holy spirit inside us sanctifies us and makes us good. We're good not because we were born perfect (because we're not) but because his grace covers us when we sin. It no longer defines us. His sacrifice alone makes us good and it is God himself who works through us. We need Him to be good.

We are justified by faith in Christ alone. That means all our PAST sins are cleansed, but it doesn't stop there. Christ also takes away the sin nature and gives us His powerful nature. We still have free will, but the desire to sin is gone. Our free will desires to do good. There is no more struggle with sin, as Roman 7 talks about when we merely had the law to guide us. We have the all powerful Spirit to guide us.

Romans 6:2 - We are dead to sin.
Romans 8:9 - We are not in the flesh.

Grace does not cover our sin as did the blood of bulls and goats. NO! Jesus took away our sin nature, full stop! His sacrifice was better! We no longer commit sin in the present or future for His blood to cover as I suspect you may believe from your understanding.

1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You stated, "I'm just saying we will all sin at some point." To which I would say, why when you don't desire to?

before I asked, "Does Christ leave us with that sin nature intact? Scripture please."

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

We are justified by faith in Christ alone. That means all our PAST sins are cleansed, but it doesn't stop there. Christ also takes away the sin nature and gives us His powerful nature. We still have free will, but the desire to sin is gone. Our free will desires to do good. There is no more struggle with sin, as Roman 7 talks about when we merely had the law to guide us. We have the all powerful Spirit to guide us.

Romans 6:2 - We are dead to sin.
Romans 8:9 - We are not in the flesh.

Grace does not cover our sin as did the blood of bulls and goats. NO! Jesus took away our sin nature, full stop! His sacrifice was better! We no longer commit sin in the present or future for His blood to cover as I suspect you may believe from your understanding.

1 John 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Well, we as Christians still sin. That verse in 1st John says "does not make a practice of sin". We don't become perfect without any issues or sins when we become Christians. That's why we need forgiveness. The full penalty was paid for past present and future sin, because Jesus knew we would still sin. We strive to obey Christ but we're not perfect and need forgiveness for the sins we commit. He made that sacrifice because he knew we would need it.

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

You stated, "I'm just saying we will all sin at some point." To which I would say, why when you don't desire to?

before I asked, "Does Christ leave us with that sin nature intact? Scripture please."

Well we as Christians don't want to sin but we aren't perfect. We don't intentionally sin and strive to obey God but we will stumble. We learn from our mistakes and allow the Spirit to lead and help us.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

I guess that's an answer to my question. Do you yourself believe it, though? If so, I can see why. If not, then why not?

No, I don't believe non sequiturs

 

[RaymondG]

Sin is not good...and Sin is not bad. All sin is just sin. They have their consequence and you can choose whether you want to accept them or not. God sets before us blessings and curses, life and death, and asks us to choose life. This does not require us to make a list of good and bad things....doing so, does not make us as gods...as the serpent would have us believe.....

 

[1stcenturylady]

Well, we as Christians still sin. That verse in 1st John says "does not make a practice of sin". We don't become perfect without any issues or sins when we become Christians. That's why we need forgiveness. The full penalty was paid for past present and future sin, because Jesus knew we would still sin. We strive to obey Christ but we're not perfect and need forgiveness for the sins we commit. He made that sacrifice because he knew we would need it.

Sorry, but you are using the wrong Greek word. It actually says we do not commit sin (singular). You are quoting false teachers = no where in scripture does it say the blood of Jesus cover sins while we are committing them. Thus, "present and future sins" are gross error. You can stand your ground, as what you believe is very popular, but it is absolute error.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Well, we as Christians still sin. That verse in 1st John says "does not make a practice of sin". We don't become perfect without any issues or sins when we become Christians. That's why we need forgiveness. The full penalty was paid for past present and future sin, because Jesus knew we would still sin. We strive to obey Christ but we're not perfect and need forgiveness for the sins we commit. He made that sacrifice because he knew we would need it.

I'm curious if you have ever read the Bible and know any scriptures to back up what you've been taught. Don't take anything for granted when your life depends on it.

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

Sorry, but you are using the wrong Greek word. It actually says we do not commit sin (singular). You are quoting false teachers = no where in scripture does it say the blood of Jesus cover sins while we are committing them. Thus, "present and future sins" are gross error. You can stand your ground, as what you believe is very popular, but it is absolute error.

Wow, okay. I don't even know what you presume that I believe, but some of the things you are saying are very unbiblical. You are saying we don't sin after we become saved. You are not even quoting me. I never said that he covers them as we commit them. I said when we confess our sins he forgives. I say past, present, and future, because he forgives the sins I committed in the past that I confessed, my present struggles, and the ones I will commit in the future. Everyone sins. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying becoming a Christian does not make you perfect as if you don't sin anymore. That's a deception and if you want to talk false teaching, that's it. I come to this sight to peacefully and respectfully discuss the Bible and you are very ugly and accusatory about it. Don't go saying I don't know my beliefs, because I know where I'm at with God. Instead of shoving your beliefs down people, maybe you should let the Holy Spirit do it's work. This should be a place where we show love.

 

[Melissa Suzanne]

I'm curious if you have ever read the Bible and know any scriptures to back up what you've been taught. Don't take anything for granted when your life depends on it.

Well, if you would like some scriptures, tell me what you object to that I say, and I will find the scriptures that back up my beliefs. All I've said so far is that we're saved by grace, and that the spirit helps us live like we should when we're saved. Grace through forgiveness covers us when we mess up. But we don't become perfect as if we don't sin when we become saved. We still struggle. I think you assume that I believe the whole "grace is an excuse to sin" belief that most people nowadays believe and if so I don't know how you came to that guess. Grace saved us from sin but Jesus died because he knew we would make mistakes in the future. His blood covers us when we sin. So, that's what I believe. Trying to make it clear. If you are going to keep telling me I'm wrong, then I don't see the point at continuing to go at it, because I know what I believe and I feel confident with the Councelor's guidance. Might I say the way you go about these conversations is not in a godly fashion. It's accusatory and ugly.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I'm hearing a lot of people regurgitating the false beliefs of the last church age - the lukewarm church age. The Bible is still intact and can easily be understood, except by those who want the Bible to say they can still sin. Paul says to that - God forbid!

Wow, okay. I don't even know what you presume that I believe, but some of the things you are saying are very unbiblical. You are saying we don't sin after we become saved. You are not even quoting me. I never said that he covers them as we commit them. I said when we confess our sins he forgives. I say past, present, and future, because he forgives the sins I committed in the past that I confessed, my present ones, and the ones I will commit in the future. Everyone sins. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm just saying becoming a Christian does not make you perfect as if you don't sin anymore. I come to this sight to peacefully and respectfully discuss the Bible and you are very ugly and accusatory about it. Don't go saying I don't know my beliefs, because I know where I'm at with God. Instead of shoving your beliefs down people, maybe you should let the Holy Spirit do it's work.

Where you don't understand the gospel is when you say "my present ones (sins), and the ones I will commit in the future." Why do you believe that when Jesus took away your sin nature, if He has yet, that you WILL sin still. What apostle tells you such gross error. You still have no idea of the power of God. If you are going by your own present nature, and trying to make the scriptures fit your experience, then you will never receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit and be "free indeed." But if you continue basking in the false doctrines of present and future sins, besides past sins, you will not seek anything more.

The gospel was prophesied. And it isn't wishy washy like the common sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent syndrome false doctrine. No! It is a once and for all gospel.

To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,

So again, where are the scriptures to back up what you believe, and maybe we can see how they have been misinterpreted and correct your thinking, if you want it corrected.

After that, there is so much more to the Christian life - glorification!