Is it right to kill another human even in war?

[Johnboy60]

Hi, Would Jesus allow people to kill other people even in war?

Newly found faith lands Marine in jail.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4935


Robert

 

[porcupine]

God commands killing for capital punishment. He also commanded wars and commanded annihilation of enemies. Do you think God got "converted" after Jesus died on the cross?

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

While Israel was of this world, the Kingdom of God is not. There is some heavy penance and consequences for killing.

 

[Johnboy60]

Capital punishment is in the old testament of bible and not in the new testament. The old testament said a eye for a eye. When Jesus can he changed the bible to new testament which says nothing about killing anyone ownly to love your enemies.

Robert

 

[Christ's Minister]

I'm glad that someone has noticed that there is a big difference between new and old testament teachings.When society grew more civilized,Jesus was sent to teach the new gospel,a way of no longer relating to people through excessive rules and violence if regulation didn't work, which was necessary in old testament days when society was primitive.

The entire emphasis in the New Testament is on forgiveness but for those who can't pick up the theme of the gospel message,Jesus did give specific instuctions such as "DO GOOD TO THOSE WHO HATE YOU" and"LOVE YOUR ENEMY".For those who didn't pick up on that He became more direct."ALL WHO TAKE UP THE SWORD SHALL PERISH WITH THE SWORD."Unfortunately even that warning hasn't worked because some have been taught from childhood that it is their "patriotic duty" to roam all over the world "fighting for freedom"The fact that political freedom is not a Christian concept,doesn't seem to bother these people at all.What about going to hell,will they respond to that?Here is God's position on their hate and violence which of course are Satan's primary tools,"WHOSOEVER WISHES TO BECOME A FRIEND OF THE WORLD,MAKES HIMSELF AN ENEMY OF GOD".It really comes down to deciding which master you want to serve,God or country.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

It is certainly not a matter of society being civilized or not. Israel, God's chosen nation, continually fought unbelievers. I may dare say that they are more civilized than many people alive today.

 

[mesz]

It really comes down to deciding which master you want to serve,God or country.

You are absolutely right. Phillipians 3:20 says,
20For ourcitizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Although God does ordain civil magistrates in this world to maintain order sometimes by force, Christians belong to a different world, not this one. We are to follow the law of love and not the law of violence. In this we are to be separate from the world.

 

[Saruman]

You are absolutely right. Phillipians 3:20 says,
20For ourcitizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Although God does ordain civil magistrates in this world to maintain order sometimes by force, Christians belong to a different world, not this one. We are to follow the law of love and not the law of violence. In this we are to be separate from the world.

Are we, as Christians, just supposed to sit around and let things fall where they may? What if we must fight to protect our religion, i.e.: the Crusades? Is it wrong to stand and fight in God's name? I don't believe so. God called upon Joan of Arc to save her country. I do not believe God intended for us to be complete pacifists.

As to the "taking up of the sword, and falling to the sword", I believe that refers to things like murder, not war. Swords were symbols of not only war-weapons, but of also wreckless violence.

 

[shataytay]

....

 

[InnerPhyre]

While Israel was of this world, the Kingdom of God is not. There is some heavy penance and consequences for killing.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bizzlebin Imperatoris again.


I've asked this question before, but if anyone can tell me how we can both love and kill our enemies, I'm all ears.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Are we, as Christians, just supposed to sit around and let things fall where they may? What if we must fight to protect our religion, i.e.: the Crusades?

JFYI, the Crusades didn't work out. They ended up destroying more of Eastern Christianity than they did of Islam

 

[porcupine]

Capital punishment is in the old testament of bible and not in the new testament. The old testament said a eye for a eye. When Jesus can he changed the bible to new testament which says nothing about killing anyone ownly to love your enemies.

Robert

Capital punishment is in the NT -- read Romans 13.

 

[JaimeMan]

1 Peter 2:13 "Submit yourself to every ordinance of man . . . to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors."

Matthew 22:21 "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's." See also Romans 13:1,7 and Titus 3:1.


Romans 13

Submission to the Authorities

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Also:
Acts 5:29 "We ought to obey God rather then men."

War is not a good thing but it is Biblical to obey authorities who command war for the right reasons (As in warring against Terroists who murder people who aren't Christians). Jesus did not say otherwise.

 

[Borealis]

The original commandment, in the Hebrew, is NOT "Thou shalt not kill." The correct translation is: "Thou shalt not MURDER."

There's quite the difference there. Murder is the taking of innocent life. Killing is something that, as has been pointed out, God not only commanded, but actually DID on a fairly regular basis in the Old Testament.

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Abraham pleaded with God that if there were any innocents in those depraved cities, that he spare the entire population for the sake of those innocents. God had every intention of wiping those cities out, remember? That's breaking his own commandment if you read it as 'Thou shalt not kill.'

 

[InnerPhyre]

Still no ideas? Waiting for an answer. How can we kill AND love our enemies?

 

[porcupine]

Still no ideas? Waiting for an answer. How can we kill AND love our enemies?

Yes, in defense of the innocent.

Scenario: You see a large man beating a small child to death. If there is no way to stop him except to kill him, are you biblically justified in doing so. Yes. You may love the sinner and hate ths sin here, but you are under greater obligation to defend the innocent. (Prov 24: 11-12)

 

[mesz]

It seems ironic that people would use Romans 13 as an excuse to disobeye Jesus' words when Paul never meant it to be used as such. It is true that a civil magistrate may use force to enforce the law, but as a Christian you may never use force. Civil magistrates are of this world, Christians are not!
In addition, in Paul's days no Christians were in government positions so this verse can only be interpreted to be speaking to those who have to obeye government and not run it.

 

[mesz]

Remember Sodom and Gomorrah? Abraham pleaded with God that if there were any innocents in those depraved cities, that he spare the entire population for the sake of those innocents. God had every intention of wiping those cities out, remember? That's breaking his own commandment if you read it as 'Thou shalt not kill.'

Borealis, God may judge and punish the wicked, that is his job. You as another human being may not.

"14Revenge not yourselves, my dearly beloved; but give place unto wrath, for it is written: Revenge is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord." Romans 12:14

 

[California Tim]

Yes, it is not only possible, it is scriptural. The law prohibits murder specifically.

 

[porcupine]

It seems ironic that people would use Romans 13 as an excuse to disobeye Jesus' words when Paul never meant it to be used as such. It is true that a civil magistrate may use force to enforce the law, but as a Christian you may never use force. Civil magistrates are of this world, Christians are not!
In addition, in Paul's days no Christians were in government positions so this verse can only be interpreted to be speaking to those who have to obeye government and not run it.

What if a Christian IS a civil magistrate?

Are you saying that Scripture is saying that the government is "God's messenger" when it executes people, but that God's people may not do what God's messenger does?

Are you saying that when the government executes the guilty, it is God's righteousness, but it is sin if God's people do it?