Is it possible to be a Christian, but NOT a disciple

[Nanopants]

These shonky disciplers set their own rules and regulations where Jesus sets none. They force believers to follow them instead of Jesus.

"...the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me." (John 15:26)

And that really is the meat of the matter: the dividing line between spiritual and carnal. The Godly man always points to Christ and has access to His authority; the carnal man desires authority and has none.

And He sat down, called the twelve, and said to them, "If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all." (Mark 9:35)

 

[mrhappy3]

Well, at the end of the day, you can only take someone as far as they want to go.

all of me - none of God
some of me - some of God
none of me - all of God


We are gonna be holding some "discipleship" classes in the new year, with those who WANT to go a bit deeper.

But there is no pressure on our part. And we are not a Church by the way, just bereans !

 

[TasManOfGod]

I would hate to be discipled by somebody who taught that "if there be any bad thing think on these things"

I am often reminded of the story of the bank employees who were taught how to detect counterfeit banknotes -they actually never saw or touched a fake note -they just studied the real so that when the counterfeit turned up it would be instantly identifiable.

 

[lisarn]

This is what I learned in our discipleship training at church:


A disciple is a follower of Jesus who is commanded by Jesus to lead others to Jesus.

"Come, follow me," Jesus said; "And I will make you fishers of men." Matthew 4:19

Discipleship involves 3 changes: Head, Heart, Hands.
Head: The disciple knows Christ and mades a decision to follow Christ.
Heart: The disciple is being changed by Christ.
Hands: The disciple is committed to leading others to Christ.

 

[lisarn]

More on what I learned from our discipleship study:

Words to describe the spiritual stages:

Spiritually Dead: unbelief & rebellion

Spiritual Infant: (new believer) dependence, confusion, and
ignorance (not knowing)

Spiritual Child: self-centeredness, idealism, over-confidence or under-confidence

Spiritual Young Adult: God-and-others-centered, service to others

Spiritual Parent: intentional, reproduces disciples (leads others to Christ and helps them grow)

What a Disciple-Maker does in each stage:

Spiritually Dead/Spiritual Infant-Shares the gospel of Christ, it's truth, and themselves, and what it means to follow Christ.

Spiritual Child-helps them Connect to God, to others and their purpose in the church.

Spiritual Young Adult-Ministers by helping them use their gifts/abilities to minister to others, equips, encourages and supports them.

Spiritual Parent-Disciples by equiping and releasing them to disciple others, and supports them to disciple others.

I hope this is helpful to you all. It's helpful for me because sharing it with you all helps me to review it again.

 

[K2K]

This is what I learned in our discipleship training at church:


A disciple is a follower of Jesus who is commanded by Jesus to lead others to Jesus.

"Come, follow me," Jesus said; "And I will make you fishers of men." Matthew 4:19

Discipleship involves 3 changes: Head, Heart, Hands.
Head: The disciple knows Christ and mades a decision to follow Christ.
Heart: The disciple is being changed by Christ.
Hands: The disciple is committed to leading others to Christ.

This is exactly right. We are trying to lead people to Jesus Christ!

Many people say that and say they are doing that, but not all doing that!!

The Lord often has me working with Jehovah Witnesses. That is; the Lord will have me go to a certain place, like a gas station, or the supermarket, or to a particular yard sale, and once and only once He has me do a church service at my house for just my wife and me. And Jehovah Witnesses would show up so I could talk to them.

They feel they are leading people to Jesus Christ, but without exeption I have not found one that hears His voice. They lead people to themselves and their teachings on their version "The New World Translation" of the Scriptures. When ask about the possiblility of hearing from Christ they have told me that Christ doesn't speak to us today.

So they believe they are leading people to Jesus Christ but do not know Jesus Christ as the One that talks to them and teaches them.

The Jehovah Witnesses are not alone in this. I have met many many Christian that do know Jesus Christ and do hear from Him, but I have meet just as many that don't and act just like the Jehovah Witnesses.

I once attended a small Christian church which usually had about 50 people for their Sunday service and it seemed that everyone there knew the Lord. Yet this seemed the exception. Most Christian churches I go to, maybe only half of the people their know the Lord.

If you personally don't know the Lord, how can you tell someone else about personally getting to know the Lord?

If you don't know Him, you can't preach Him. So what is happening at the Christian churches in which only half the congregation hear from Him. Are they making disciples for Him or for themselves? If it was for Him, then surely there would not be people that didn't know His voice in important positions in the church, but that is often where you find them.

The Lord had me attend a very nive Christian church where many, even most, of the congregation heard from the Lord. Yet while talking to the senior pastor, He told me that He had only heard from the Lord three times in His life. His mother, and wife of the founder of the church who had departed, seemed to be hearing from the Lord daily, so how is it her son did not know that the Lord is always with us so can be heard from daily. And what now was being preach at that church? It appeared that most of the congregation knew the Lord because they had listen to the departed father who had been the senior pastor, yet perhaps he son didn't hear and understand, because He wasn't hearing from the Lord. Was He called by the Lord to do the job or was it given to him because he was the son of the founder of the church.

If you are preaching Jesus Christ, you need to be telling people that they can hear from Him so they can be discipled by Him. If you are not hearing from Him, it is because you are either not taking time to listen to Him, or you don't believe that He is near you; in your heart and on your lips. He is the great I AM. And if your are not hearing from Him, have you then been sent by Him? Paul dealt with this issue in Romans.

As for me, I usually hear from Him about a dozen times a day. That is not boasting but confessing how poorly I am, even though I believe. Paul explained that he took every thought captive, I fall sadly very short of that but still He told me, "Karl, I want you to preach the Word, but not as it is so often preached today. I want you to preach I AM the Word of God".

I agree fully with lisarn. I am a disciple is 'a follower of Jesus who is commanded by Jesus to lead others to Jesus.'

Rm 10:14-18

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? INdeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."


Everyone has heard, but not all believe!! They do not all listen nor want to listen to the Great I AM. So Jehovah Witness hear but they do not believe that the Lord is the Great I Am, so they don't seek Him for advice. They lean on their understanding of their Scripures. And many Christians a just like that also.

So the Lord has me post here, even on a Charismatic Christian site, where they all should know to listen to the Lord who is always with them. And He has me post because while I know to listen to Him, I only do so a dozen times a day. So even I am reminded to listen to Him by following the instructions that He gives me.

So tell people to listen to the Lord and you will remind yourself to do the same. I need to be reminded, what about you?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

More on what I learned from our discipleship study:

Words to describe the spiritual stages:

Spiritually Dead: unbelief & rebellion

Spiritual Infant: (new believer) dependence, confusion, and
ignorance (not knowing)

Spiritual Child: self-centeredness, idealism, over-confidence or under-confidence

Spiritual Young Adult: God-and-others-centered, service to others

Spiritual Parent: intentional, reproduces disciples (leads others to Christ and helps them grow)

What a Disciple-Maker does in each stage:

Spiritually Dead/Spiritual Infant-Shares the gospel of Christ, it's truth, and themselves, and what it means to follow Christ.

Spiritual Child-helps them Connect to God, to others and their purpose in the church.

Spiritual Young Adult-Ministers by helping them use their gifts/abilities to minister to others, equips, encourages and supports them.

Spiritual Parent-Disciples by equiping and releasing them to disciple others, and supports them to disciple others.

I hope this is helpful to you all. It's helpful for me because sharing it with you all helps me to review it again.

This looks very reasonable and probably is the best description of the different stages of a believer's growth in grace. If every person who disciples others is a spiritual parent in the Lord, then there would be no problems in the discipling.

Problem is, in so many cases, is that people discipling others are still spiritual children who are still having problems with the basics themselves, and they are trying to leader others. It is like the blind leading the blind, and they fall into the same ditch of authoritarianism and legalism.

Also, the stages of growth that you mention, are not stages of rank and authority over others, but are stages of personal growth in dependence on the Lord. The more a person grows in the Lord, the more humble they are, and the less they want to "lord it" over others.

So, a discipler who sets rules for others and accuses them that if they don't follow the rules they are rebelling against Christ, is still a spiritual infant, but who thinks he is a spiritual adult with the right to boss others around. But really, he is spiritually abusing them, just like a bullying husband giving his wife and children a life of misery. They call that "domestic violence", which has the same principles attached to it as spiritual abuse.