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Is it possible that the earth is only 6,000 or so years old?

ng4760

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Could all the scientific evidence that says the earth is around 4.54 billion years old be wrong?

Is it possible that God used super natural methods to create everything and we are unable to measure these?

Is this the best science can do or are scientist blinded by satan to the possiblity that the earth is around 6,000 years old?

Doesn't the bible say that some people's minds are blinded?
 

Papias

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Is it possible that the earth is only 7 days or so years old?
Could all the scientific evidence that says the earth is around 4.54 billion years old be wrong?

Is it possible that God used super natural methods to create everything last thursday and we are unable to measure these?

Is this the best science can do or are scientist blinded by satan to the possiblity that the earth is around 7 days old?

Doesn't the bible say that some people's minds are blinded?

Sounds like "Last Thursdayism" to me.
 
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sfs

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Is this the best science can do or are scientist blinded by satan to the possiblity that the earth is around 6,000 years old?

Doesn't the bible say that some people's minds are blinded?
Why is it always some other guy who's blinded by Satan and not the one speculating about the possibility?

Yes, the earth could be 6000 years old and supernaturally made to look 4.5 billion years old. The earth could also be 100 billion years old and made to look 4.5 billion years old, with the Bible supernaturally made to look like it describes a 6000 year old earth. Once you allow that kind of possibility, absolutely anything could be true about anything. The world could be six weeks old and printed on the side of a cereal box, and only made to look really big and really old. You could be an intelligent turnip, supernaturally made to look like a human even to yourself. What's the point of any of it?
 
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dana b

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Could all the scientific evidence that says the earth is around 4.54 billion years old be wrong?

Is it possible that God used super natural methods to create everything and we are unable to measure these?

Is this the best science can do or are scientist blinded by satan to the possiblity that the earth is around 6,000 years old?

Doesn't the bible say that some people's minds are blinded?

Hello ng4760,

It is a very good question that you ask here. Many people have wondered about this and most of them are still confused on this issue. Here is what I believe after much examination on this topic. I found that, as with many points in the Holy Bible, the confusion often arises from a missunderstanding of what certain verses are actually saying. I suppose we can call this "semantics?"

In the first chapter of Genesis it tells us that God created this world in six days and rested on the seventh. That is what it says so I, being a Christian believe it.

Then after the seventh day in Gen.2;5 it tells us that "there was not a man to till the ground." But back in Gen.1;27 it has already said that God created Men and Women." So I though about this. The sentence says " there was not a man "to till the ground."

When does history and scientific evidence tell us that the beginning of large scale sustainable agriculture begin. I have read many books and they say it began in Mesopotamia at about 4000BC. So therefore I have realized that the verse Gen.2;5 is saying that Human beings before about 4000BC were not yet "tilling the ground," but were, as historians tell us, cavemen. Mankind before about 4000BC were still generally hunters and gatherers. So therefore the Holy Bible does not say that the world or Mankind were created only 6000 years ago. It says that largescale sustainable agriculture using the plough for "tilling the ground" began 6000 years ago.

The Bible does not tell us when these six days were when God created the world. So scientific evidence may not be wrong that this world is millions or billions of years old. There is therefore no contradiction between the Holy Bible and modern scientific evidence. And realizing this makes understandable much more that the early chapters of the book of Genesis describe to us. Your question is just a matter of seeing what the Bible's words are actually saying.

Referring to the verses in the Bible that say some were "blinded" or given the spirit of slumber, these referr to the original ancient tribes of Israel who did not recognize that Jesus Christ was the awaited Messiah. In Romans chapter 11 it tells us that they were "blinded" so that the message of Christ would therefore be taken to the Gentiles. Then it goes on to say that they later could wake up and acknowledge Jesus Christ and thereby also be saved along with us. Paul praises this ingeneous method that God has used to thereby spread and make available the possibility of eternal life for all Human beings. Rm.11;33

What do think?

Daniel B.
 
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Papias

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Daniel B wrote:

When does history and scientific evidence tell us that the beginning of large scale sustainable agriculture begin. I have read many books and they say it began in Mesopotamia at about 4000BC. So therefore I have realized that the verse Gen.2;5 is saying that Human beings before about 4000BC were not yet "tilling the ground," but were, as historians tell us, cavemen. Mankind before about 4000BC were still generally hunters and gatherers. So therefore the Holy Bible does not say that the world or Mankind were created only 6000 years ago. It says that largescale sustainable agriculture using the plough for "tilling the ground" began 6000 years ago.

The Bible does not tell us when these six days were when God created the world. So scientific evidence may not be wrong that this world is millions or billions of years old. There is therefore no contradiction between the Holy Bible and modern scientific evidence. And realizing this makes understandable much more that the early chapters of the book of Genesis describe to us. Your question is just a matter of seeing what the Bible's words are actually saying.

...

What do you think?

I think you have some good ideas. One correction that doesn't change your general approach is that the Neolithic revolution with agriculture dates back to around 10,000 years ago, though of course it was gradual.

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/jul102004/54.pdf (see table 1)

Papias
 
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gluadys

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Could all the scientific evidence that says the earth is around 4.54 billion years old be wrong?

Is it possible that God used super natural methods to create everything and we are unable to measure these?



If you rely on miracles as explanation, anything goes, including, as Papias mentioned "Last Thursdayism".

That is why science sticks to natural explanations. Nature has rules--even when God is acting through nature, the rules apply.

If the true explanation is a miracle, then it is not an explanation at all. Who can explain a miracle?


Science tells us what we can expect so long as nature's rules apply and God is observing those rules (as God usually does--after all that's why he made them.) Science can't tell us what else might occur if God decides to throw in a miracle instead of staying within the framework of his own creation.

But let me ask you this? Should we call on miracles God never revealed to us to reject a natural explanation just because we don't like it?

Maybe we need to be more cautious about shouting "miracle" and consider what God is telling us through nature.
 
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ng4760

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It sounds like some christians are trying to stretch the bible to conform to science, instead of stretching science to conform to the bible.

If a scientist believes a 6,000 year old earth is impossible they don't focus on it at all. It is not a goal of theirs.

I think absolute dating is the key to determining the true age of rocks. Are there conditions that could affect the absolute dating processes?

Could the atmosphere been different in the first few days of creation than it is now?

Could God have super naturally sped up the processes that naturally would of taken billions of years?

Since, absolute dating can not be tested concerning things before man had a written history, how can it be proven?

Sure prior to absolute dating methods people estimated the age of rocks based on a correlation to the geologic column.

Since the scientist who came up with the estimation involved in indetifying the ages of rocks and fossils based on the assumption of an old earth, they would of never conceived on a scientific reason for the materials in the geologic column being order in a 6,000 or so period.

If the whole world was flooded during Noah's flood from clouds above and fountains or springs beneath the earth spewing out water. It is possible that the water and earth was severely churned up and land was blown up from the earth as well from fountains inside the earth that God released.

If you made a model of the earth and you simulated fountains spewed with great force from inside the earth to breaking through the crust and then you stimulated rain from above. What would happen?

Has anyone ever done an experiment like this?
 
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shernren

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The question is this: if someone really models this and shows you that it's scientifically impossible, will you actually admit the possibility of being wrong, or will you just bounce back to "well we are unable to measure these supernatural methods" (your words, not mine) like all the evidence in the world never happened?

No point asking for evidence if it has no possibility of changing your viewpoint, and no point supplying it either.
 
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ng4760

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The question is this: if someone really models this and shows you that it's scientifically impossible, will you actually admit the possibility of being wrong, or will you just bounce back to "well we are unable to measure these supernatural methods" (your words, not mine) like all the evidence in the world never happened?

No point asking for evidence if it has no possibility of changing your viewpoint, and no point supplying it either.

Oh I would certainly take it into consideration. The integrity of the testing methods and amount of tests would have to be reliable and adhere to scientific methods.

How much money and testing has been done on experiements or anything else relating to a young earth theory? Probably not much if any, because scientist are not going to do it, because they believe it is impossible and a waste of time.

Do you contribute all the miracles in the bible to natural forces? When Moses led his people through a large body of water, was there anything supernatural that happened or was it all natural?

When Jesus stopped the wind and waves was that all natural or was there anything supernatural going on?

Did God have sex with Mary or did he supernaturally create Jesus inside of Mary?

Was it a super natural miracle how God created the earth or was it natural?

Look at all the miracles in the bible and try to contribute all of them to the natural.
 
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gluadys

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How much money and testing has been done on experiements or anything else relating to a young earth theory? Probably not much if any, because scientist are not going to do it, because they believe it is impossible and a waste of time.

Quite a lot actually. After all, less than 300 years ago almost all scientists did believe in a young earth. But bit by bit as they followed the evidence, it convinced them that the earth was not young. So a century later most no longer believed in a young earth.

That is why there is no research into a young earth today. Scientifically, the idea was falsified before 1830. The evidence that convinced geologists back then (and this was well before radiometric dating) is still there and will still yield the same results.

For the most part it was Christian geologists who assumed a young earth who proved their own assumptions were wrong and the earth is old.

Do you have any good reason to do those tests again? Do you expect they would yield a different scientific result?

If not, what's the point?


Do you contribute all the miracles in the bible to natural forces? When Moses led his people through a large body of water, was there anything supernatural that happened or was it all natural?

When Jesus stopped the wind and waves was that all natural or was there anything supernatural going on?

Did God have sex with Mary or did he supernaturally create Jesus inside of Mary?

Of course not. What would be the reason for doubting these miracles?

And for what reason should one conjure up miracles scripture tells us nothing of just because the natural explanation rubs you the wrong way?

Was it a super natural miracle how God created the earth or was it natural?

Well, in a sense the existence of anything is a miracle whether God used natural processes to bring it into existence or not. Even if there is a natural explanation for the formation of the earth, that is a natural explanation wrapped in the miracle of the universe as a whole.

Why not let creation itself tell us whether God was using natural or super-natural means of bringing the earth into being?
 
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whitetiger1

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Could all the scientific evidence that says the earth is around 4.54 billion years old be wrong?

Is it possible that God used super natural methods to create everything and we are unable to measure these?

Is this the best science can do or are scientist blinded by satan to the possiblity that the earth is around 6,000 years old?

Doesn't the bible say that some people's minds are blinded?
Yes to all four questions
 
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miamited

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Hi 4760,

Well, imagine my meeting you here on this very subject. On the other board that you posted about 'replenishing' the earth I was going to throw in that what most people who read the Scriptures stumble over is the account that God has given of the 'time' of the creation. Lo and behold, here you are and you seem to believe God's word. You'll get a big encouragement from me.

Just to give you a bit of the other side of the discussion. It's not only possible, but according to God's word it is the truth. Many who claim the name of Christ agree that the creation was a miracle. However, then they try to accept the understanding of science to 'explain' that miracle. Not seeing the total futility of such a position. If it could be explained it wouldn't be a miracle. So what they do is cling to the miracle part, but push it further and further back in time.

For me, and yes I speak only for the understanding of God's word that I have, but feel confident that I have the Holy Spirit providing me the truth of all things that Jesus said he would give to those in whom he indwells, I find a perfectly logical reason that God had His Spirit to cause to be written: ...there was evening and morning the first day, and not ...there was the first day.

God knows the beginning from the end. He knew 6,000 years ago that somewhere about 5,000 years out men would be having real struggles with this miraculous 6 literal day creation account. So, He wasn't satisfied just to say, '...there was the first day.' He further defined each day as having an evening and a morning.

So, let's look at all the possibilities that others who read the Scriptures claim about these days.

There is a camp that says, "Well, the word 'yom', which is the Hebrew word translated as day, can also be used to define an age or eon." Yes, yes it can. There is plenty of proof that the word, just as many english words, has various intention of meaning based on context.

Someone might say, "There's a pipe." Now, we would have to find further context to know whether they are intending, "there's a piece of round hollow metal or plastic through which material might flow" or they were intending, "there's the instrument in which we pack tobacco and light and puff on." Similarly, I believe that
God has added a piece of context to the account of the creation so that we are not misled by the various intended meanings of the word 'yom'.

He described each day as consisting of an evening and a morning. That's not how we think of or define ages or eons. They certainly have beginnings and endings and one might say that there was the 'dawn' of an age. But no one has ever said there was an evening and a morning of the first age. Further, in speaking of beginnings and endings of ages or eons we would never put the evening, the end of the age or eon, before the morning.

Then there is the camp that says, "Well, God doesn't measure time as we do and he even says in His word that a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day." Yes, yes he does. But let's consider even when God sees a day as like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day, each one of those days has an evening and morning. So, I don't think it careful study to tie this passage of how God is outside of our understanding of time with our thinking that this word 'yom' might mean a period of a thousand years or any other great number of years, when the day is further defined as having an evening and a morning.

Then there are those who ridicule that there couldn't possibly be a day before the sun and moon were created. These are the most laughable because they obviously understand nothing about what the definition of a day is. A day is merely one rotation of a planet. If you look through the encyclopdia or wikipedia and pull up one of the other planets in our solar system you'll find: length of day. Guess how that's determined? They don't figure out when the sun crosses the horizon and in the case of many planets there are multiple moons and yet none of this has any effect on the determination of the length of that planet's day. A day is merely one complete rotation of the planet. Whether it's the earth, saturn, mars or jupiter, etc. Therefore, if God when He spoke the earth into existence caused it to be a spinning body suspended in the blackness of space, there would be the passage of a day, according to how a day is techically detemined, in approximately 24 hours.

"Well," they say, "there couldn't possibly be a morning and an evening without the sun and moon." Try this test. Go into Walmart tomorrow at 3 am and see if the door greeter doesn't call out, "Good morning." Yet, there won't be any sun out. As a matter of fact the moon will still be out. How can it be morning? Evening and morning is merely the way God has divided a day into two halves. We even still keep time by that understanding. AM starts after midnight even though there is not a glimmer of the sun in the sky. PM starts after noon and there's no sign of the moon. It's actually the brightest time of the day with the sun in the sky. But if you take all the hours accounted in the AM (morning) and add them to all the hours accounted in the PM (evening), guess what?

No, evening and morning are merely half divisions of a day. And because that's what they are, God, in His marvelous wisdom caused the Holy Spirit to include in the account of the days of creation, ...and there was evening and there was morning the first day. Just so, those who might question the word 'yom' and it's intended meaning would be able to understand it in context.

Then we come to the sixth day in which Adam was created and God then follows that up with a list of the geneologies with number of years of life and years till the birth of a child and then follows up with same data for that child. It's an easy mathematical calculation that tells us that the age of the creation when the flood came upon the earth, also a miracle of God that many of these same naysayers deny as to it's explanation of covering the whole earth, as about 1600 years. We find the years of the descendents from Adam to Noah as 1056 years and the Scriptures tell us that Noah was 600 years old when the flood waters came upon the earth. Calculation 1,656 years. It's really quite simple.

From there God gives us another geneology that carries us to Abram and then from Abram it gets just a bit tougher, but now we begin to find extrabiblical accounts that verify certain dates. Friend, God is very, very wise. He is wise enough to answer our questions before we even think to ask them. God desires that we know the truth. He wants us to understand how powerful and awesome and creative and loving He is because His purpose in all of this is to reach the fulfillment found in the last chapters of the Revelation. The last chapters of the Revelation reveal to us that in both the heavenly realm of angels and the earthly realm of men a day is coming when God will stand from His throne and declare "Enough! Son, go get your children." And He will rid the heavens and the earth of all rebellion and sin and create the new city of God where we will forever and ever and ever and ever more be His children and He will be our God.

The Scriptures, to me, seem to clearly detail that the creation is only about 6,000 years old, which curiously also matches up with the Jewish count of years even in their present day calandar. And the Scriptures seem to clearly describe that the earth was the first body of matter in the expanse of space and three days later God littered the sky with the stars and other heavenly bodies. However, all of this must depend on the faith that the creation is a special creation of a God with such might and power who created all of this realm with a purpose, not just some god who happened to have some idle time on his hands some trillions of years ago and tinkered and figured and allowed nature to be the guiding force of whatever creation would ultimately turn out to be.

No!! Not at all. God created this realm of existence with a clarity of purpose that was perfect in completeness on the sixth rotation of the planet 'earth' and then God rested. He began the work with the forethought intention that He was making a place where a special creation of living creature, lower than the angels, could live. He was building a home with an atmosphere of oxygen and plant and animal life and a universe that would allow for this special creature to live forever and ever and ever and ever and ever.

Yes, it's absolutely possible and not only possible, but I firmly believe the truth regarding the age of this creation and how it came about.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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IndieVisible

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Sure it's possible the earth is only 6000 years old but God made it look like it was 4 billion years old.

It's also possible that we are much younger then we really look too and God only made us look as old as we are. What a trickster He is! :)
 
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Aeneas

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Could all the scientific evidence that says the earth is around 4.54 billion years old be wrong?

Is it possible that God used super natural methods to create everything and we are unable to measure these?

Is this the best science can do or are scientist blinded by satan to the possiblity that the earth is around 6,000 years old?

Doesn't the bible say that some people's minds are blinded?

:yawn1:

No.
 
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miamited

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Hi Indievisible,

Well, you know, if you were to believe the account of the creation of Adam as explained in the Scriptures. Guess what? Adam would have looked older than he really was on the second day of his life. He would have looked like a fully grown man and there's not a scientist alive today, that had they been there, would have believed that either.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Hi Indievisible,

Well, you know, if you were to believe the account of the creation of Adam as explained in the Scriptures. Guess what? Adam would have looked older than he really was on the second day of his life. He would have looked like a fully grown man and there's not a scientist alive today, that had they been there, would have believed that either.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
Would Adam have had the scars on his knee from when he fell when he was seven? Would x-rays show a healed fracture from that tree climbing incident when he was ten. Would his teeth show wear and tear from years of use? Would they find a stone marking a simple grave with the remains of an adult male and female whose genetic code Adam shares?

It isn't that Adam would be indistinguishable from a perfect human specimen, the very perfection you claim would set him apart. What scientist find indicates a very different story from the one creationists claim.
 
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shernren

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"Well," they say, "there couldn't possibly be a morning and an evening without the sun and moon." Try this test. Go into Walmart tomorrow at 3 am and see if the door greeter doesn't call out, "Good morning." Yet, there won't be any sun out. As a matter of fact the moon will still be out. How can it be morning?

All this proves is that Walmart staff (and possibly miamited as well) don't know their Bibles:

And God made the two great lights-the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night-and the stars. (Gen 1:16, ESV)

I hope you don't ask the cashier at your local supermarket to tell you what it means for Christ to have redeemed you! ;)
 
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miamited

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Hi Shernren,

You posted: And God made the two great lights-the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night-and the stars. (Gen 1:16, ESV)

Now, I ask you to read that again very carefully. God made the greater light to rule the day. Doesn't say that the greater light is what makes a day, but that it was made to rule the day. Similarly the lesser light was made to rule the night. I don't know about you but this passage seems to obviously assume that the day and night had already been established and then these two lights were made to rule those time periods.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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gluadys

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Nobody was there, it's all educated (or uneducated) guesses. I think if us knowing the age of the Earth is necessary for our salvation, then Christ might have made that clear during His life with us.

Absolutely right.


But tell me, what is the difference between an educated guess and an uneducated guess?

And in daily life (not in reference to salvation) which would you expect to be more accurate?
 
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