Is it possible that the Bible involves exaggeration? (and King Solomon)

[JohnClay]

I believe in a kind of God but also believe that the Bible could include exaggeration....
e.g.
About King Solomon:
1 Kings 11:3

He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.

I mean I don't understand how there could be that many women of "royal birth".

1 Kings 3:4 - I think this could be historical:

The king went to Gibeon to offer sacrifices, for that was the most important high place, and Solomon offered a thousand burnt offerings on that altar.

But not sure about this: (144,000 sacrifices)
1 Kings 8:63 / 2 Chronicles 7:5

Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the Lord: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats. So the king and all the Israelites dedicated the temple of the Lord.

I think the following could be historical but the number is interesting:
1 Kings 10:14 / 2 Chronicles 9:13

The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents, (20 tons)

 

[HTacianas]

I believe in a kind of God but also believe that the Bible could include exaggeration....
e.g.
About King Solomon:
1 Kings 11:3

I mean I don't understand how there could be that many women of "royal birth".

1 Kings 3:4 - I think this could be historical:

But not sure about this: (144,000 sacrifices)
1 Kings 8:63 / 2 Chronicles 7:5

I think the following could be historical but the number is interesting:
1 Kings 10:14 / 2 Chronicles 9:13

The answer to your question is yes. The bible contains legends, a legend being some story or another that contains -as you put it- exaggerations but is founded on some truth. Note that it is not myth, a myth being a story made up from its beginning that contains no real truth at all. But we have to be careful sometimes with biblical numbers. Numbers in the old testament are notoriously controversial because the means of numbering in Hebrew changed over time. What may have been Solomon's 800 wives could have bee 80 wives or some other number of wives. It's safe to say that Solomon had a great many wives, more wives than the norm of the time.

You also point out the term talent. A talent is what we would call today a unit. A unit of gold differs from a unit of stone. At Mathew 25 Jesus tells the parable of the talents where a master leaves his servants talents of gold to invest. The master certainly didn't leave his servants hundreds of pounds of gold, but certain units of gold. Talent is used also at Revelation 16:21 to describes hailstones. A talent of stone was roughly one hundred pounds, the same weight as a stone slung from a Roman trebuchet.

 

[JohnClay]

.....But we have to be careful sometimes with biblical numbers. Numbers in the old testament are notoriously controversial because the means of numbering in Hebrew changed over time.....

I just wanted to share an example of numbers changing in the Bible - see the numbers in red and yellow:

Genealogies of Genesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[HTacianas]

I just wanted to share an example of numbers changing in the Bible - see the numbers in red and yellow:

Genealogies of Genesis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's a good example of how you can drive yourself nuts with numbers in the bible.

For example, look at the ages beginning with Adam. With the exception of Enoch (who is believed to not have actually died), the ages from Adam to Abraham dwindle down from 930 to 175 almost like some kind of logarithmic clock. It seems to be counting down to something.

 

[JohnClay]

With the exception of Enoch (who is believed to not have actually died), the ages from Adam to Abraham dwindle down from 930 to 175 almost like some kind of logarithmic clock. It seems to be counting down to something.

When I was a young earth creationist an explanation I heard was that before the flood the ages were around 900 (including Noah) because of some kind of vapour canopy that filtered cosmic rays or something. It allowed people to live a long time and some animals grew larger. Then when it collapsed and caused the flood waters the accumulation of DNA mutations caused the life expectancy of humans to gradually decrease.

 

[HTacianas]

When I was a young earth creationist an explanation I heard was that before the flood the ages were around 900 (including Noah) because of some kind of vapour canopy that filtered cosmic rays or something. It allowed people to live a long time and some animals grew larger. Then when it collapsed and caused the flood waters the accumulation of DNA mutations caused the life expectancy of humans to gradually decrease.

I wouldn't go believing everything I heard from a young earth creationist.

But you mention exaggerations in the bible. I'll give you an example of one. If you read Joshua 10:12-14 it says that the sun stood still for an entire day, giving the Israelites time to defeat the Amorites. If you take it at face value, the sun stood still. But we know that's impossible. So we look for an answer to it. If you look hard enough you'll find it. To the ancients, during the solstice the sun appears to stand still, making the day last longer. In fact the word solstice means the sun stands still. There is the answer. The sun stood still that day, meaning the battle was fought on the solstice. So, was it a miracle that the sun stood still, or was it a miracle that the battle took place during the solstice, giving more daylight to fight the battle? So the story becomes a legend, meaning it has a foundation in truth, but has been exaggerated over time.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

I believe in a kind of God but also believe that the Bible could include exaggeration....
e.g.
About King Solomon:
1 Kings 11:3

I mean I don't understand how there could be that many women of "royal birth".

1 Kings 3:4 - I think this could be historical:

But not sure about this: (144,000 sacrifices)
1 Kings 8:63 / 2 Chronicles 7:5

I think the following could be historical but the number is interesting:
1 Kings 10:14 / 2 Chronicles 9:13

Hyperbolic language in order to get a point across. Blessings

 

[BobRyan]

I believe in a kind of God but also believe that the Bible could include exaggeration....
e.g.
About King Solomon:
1 Kings 11:3

I mean I don't understand how there could be that many women of "royal birth".

1 Kings 3:4 - I think this could be historical:

But not sure about this: (144,000 sacrifices)
1 Kings 8:63 / 2 Chronicles 7:5

I think the following could be historical but the number is interesting:
1 Kings 10:14 / 2 Chronicles 9:13

The Bible says that infinite God the Son came into the world via the virgin birth, lived a sinless life, died and then resurrected Himself - and went back to heaven as our high priest in heaven's sanctuary.

Hyperbolic language in order to get a point across. Blessings

A lot of people reject the gospel because to them it is merely myth, legend, exaggeration. But they are rejecting the only life line they have by doing that.

 

[BobRyan]

I'll give you an example of one. If you read Joshua 10:12-14 it says that the sun stood still for an entire day, giving the Israelites time to defeat the Amorites. If you take it at face value, the sun stood still. But we know that's impossible.

After all God is not all-powerful "enough" to stop the Earth from rotating even for a minute much less an entire day so that it would appear to an observer on Earth that the Sun was standing still in the sky. And we know that God has just such a limit because "????"

 

[DragonFox91]

"700 wives"
It's imperative to remember things were different in those days. We don't know how he acquired those wives. Marriage wasn't like what it is today where you go thru a courtship & find 'the one of your dreams.' Was he tricked by someone? Were they slaves that were sold to him? Did he take their daughters, nieces, & granddaughters & grandnieces as his own too? Were they won in battle? Did he have them all at once? Or did some die, or did he sell some, & then get more to replace the ones he had lost. Probably all a mix of these, plus more I can't think of. What might seem irrational can have very real rational explanations.

"Sacrifices" Does it say how much time it took to do these? Does it say how many people were involved?

"Sun stood still" - you have a very different understanding of God then the one the Bible presents if you don't believe the sun can stand still. A miracle is a miracle!

 

[JohnClay]

I was wondering about this related passage:
Matthew 21:21 / Mark 11:23

“Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.

The "truly I tell you" gives me the impression that Jesus really means what he is saying...
I think that some delusional people would believe something and not doubt it....

 

[DragonFox91]

Yeah, that line is often quoted by militiant atheists as outstanding evidence Jesus can’t be taken for true because they pray for whatever they want & it doesn't happen so they say 'ha ha, God didn't give me what I asked for, he's a liar.'

Truly means Trust me or Listen

A prayer request has to serve God’s will for him to answer it in the way we want. If the mountain being thrown into the sea doesn’t serve God’s will, it’s gonna be a no. I just reviewed Matthew 21: Notice how the preceding & following sections are about God’s authority & will. Verses context is missed when just pulled out willy-nilly & not viewed in the entirety of their sections, books, & entire Bible compilation

He gives like a father gives. He isn't to be bossed around any more than a child should boss his father around. He gives all of what we need & some of what we want. When we need it & when we want it. & it all works for good even if we can't tell at the time.

When a loving father tells his child I will give you anything what you want if you ask, does that mean anything? Of course not! That’s ridiculous! Anything means for your ultimate good, otherwise the loving father is giving something harmful

 

[JohnClay]

@DragonFox91

It seems that the criteria about the person talking to the mountain is whether they truly believe it will happen or not. Nothing about whether it is part of God's will. At least that's the impression I get from that verse. The context is Jesus' miracle regarding a cursed fig tree.

Mark 11:24 (the next verse)

Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

I guess if you interpret it based on other passages then you could argue that it just depends on whether or not it is God's will.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

The answer to your question is yes. The bible contains legends, a legend being some story or another that contains -as you put it- exaggerations but is founded on some truth. Note that it is not myth, a myth being a story made up from its beginning that contains no real truth at all. But we have to be careful sometimes with biblical numbers. Numbers in the old testament are notoriously controversial because the means of numbering in Hebrew changed over time. What may have been Solomon's 800 wives could have bee 80 wives or some other number of wives. It's safe to say that Solomon had a great many wives, more wives than the norm of the time.

You also point out the term talent. A talent is what we would call today a unit. A unit of gold differs from a unit of stone. At Mathew 25 Jesus tells the parable of the talents where a master leaves his servants talents of gold to invest. The master certainly didn't leave his servants hundreds of pounds of gold, but certain units of gold. Talent is used also at Revelation 16:21 to describes hailstones. A talent of stone was roughly one hundred pounds, the same weight as a stone slung from a Roman trebuchet.

Just to add to HT's comment. When we read that six hundred thousand men, not including women and children, left Egypt, one alternate reading is that "thousand" may mean clan rather than the literal number of 1,000. A clan might have numbered a couple hundred people. Or that when it reads 603,500, it might mean 3,500 men with 600 leaders. For a column of 2 million people, it could extend over 200 miles. Even today's largest stadiums in the U.S. only seat just over 100,000 people (University of MI and OSU for example).

Just to give you an idea, the Roman army that was destroyed in the battle of the Teutoburg Forest in 9AD numbered from 18,000 to 30,000 including non-combatants. This line was stretched out on a road for about 9-12 miles long.

Exodus 12:37 – How many Israelites left Egypt? – Walking With Giants

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I believe in a kind of God but also believe that the Bible could include exaggeration....
e.g.
About King Solomon:
1 Kings 11:3

I mean I don't understand how there could be that many women of "royal birth".

1 Kings 3:4 - I think this could be historical:

But not sure about this: (144,000 sacrifices)
1 Kings 8:63 / 2 Chronicles 7:5

I think the following could be historical but the number is interesting:
1 Kings 10:14 / 2 Chronicles 9:13

Oh, I don't know that the account of Solomon is all that exxagerated.

From what I see today, I kind of think making out with a large number of pagan women probably would influence a guy to make an additional number of bad choices in his life ...