Is it okay to talk about casting pearls before swine?

we will al find the gospel of greater effect preached when it is lived in us and we have become nothing ..for it is in our weakness that God is greater ..not our strength..

perhaps that what the poster meant

candle glow said:

In Matthew 7 Jesus gave instructions about not casting our pearls before swine.

In Christian forums in general, I've seen people reference this teaching to insult others and there are times when I've seen people use it to explain a genuine circumstance.

However, it seems there is not time when one can reference this verse and NOT offend someone, since no one likes to be referred to as swine.

And yet, it is a legitimate teaching from Jesus. That being the case, is it okay to reference this verse, knowing that it will probably offend some people, even if it is referenced accurately?

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I think it's important to remember that although we have this teaching, Christ leads us by His examples. Jesus Christ had a lot of tolerance for sinners and unbelievers. He went straight to them (and us). He knew they might miss the mark but loved them anyway. Several examples are Mary at the well, the Apostle Peter who denied Him, and Thomas who needed proof. Christ's commandments about loving the Lord, loving others, and loving self are really very telling about how we are supposed to act. Christ isn't telling us to zap every sinner, unbeliever or person having problems. He's telling us more than anything that we should love them.

We tend to conflate three communications concepts that actually have very small overlap. We tend to speak of and treat "being a witness," "evangelizing," and "apologetics" as though they are synonyms. They are not synonyms, however.

"Evangelizing" is telling people what Jesus did for them.
"Witnessing" is telling people what Jesus did for you.

The difference is illustrated by Jesus meeting the Samaritan woman at the well. Jesus evangelized, then the woman ran to give witness.

The evangelist fills a specific office that not everyone is called to fill. The model in scripture (note: I said "model," not "law") is that an evangelist is called, gifted, trained, and then commissioned. The first two are done by the Holy Spirit, the second two are done by the Body of Christ. We see examples in scripture where all of these things are done, some very specifically. Apollos, for instance, who was obviously called and gifted by the Holy Spirit yet required training by Pricilla and Aquila, and we see later that he had been commissioned by the Church just as Paul had been.

But not everyone is called to be an evangelist.
OTOH, everyone is obligated to be a witness.

Being a witness takes no training in doctrine. It doesn't take any study to say, "I was lost but now I'm found." Notice than after Jesus evangelized to the Samaritan woman, she was able to be an effective witness after only a single conversation with the Lord.

Giving witness when the time arises is an obligation; in fact, it's a sin to fail to give witness. When Peter and John were commanded by the Sanhedrin never to speak of Jesus, they responded, "Judge for yourselves; how can we not speak of what we have seen and heard?" That challenge of "judge for yourselves" was made to the men who were the judges of Israel.

By what did the Sanhedrin judge? By the Law of Moses. What did the Law of Moses say? In Leviticus 5, it defines failing to witness of what one knows as a sin before God. So failing to give testimony to what Jesus has done for us in the moment such witness is called for is actually a sin, thus to be a witness is an obligation upon us all.

Both of these are different from apologetics. IMO, apologetics is more useful to believers with questions than to unbelievers. In fact, apologetics extended to unbelievers may be the primary example of "pearls before swine," in that it take basic belief (which is non-intellectual) to fully appreciate the apologetic appeal to the intellect. In other words, apologetics is a function of "equipping the saints." I would further assert that apologetics lies within the role of the congregation (which has the charge of "equipping the saints") rather than with evangelists.

What Paul--who had been trained in the intellectual approach--learned is that the Holy Spirit will have already "warmed the audience" to be ready for belief. Thus, the methodology of intellectual debate was actually a hindrance when the task was to evangelize.

However, for believers apologetics is very important, as we see it effectively applied in the letter to the Romans.

Omena said:

Jesus' advice was to go into all the world teaching people about the things that He taught us. So obviously, in order to do that, we need to KNOW SOMETHING. And Paul also said that we should study so we can learn to recognize Truth, so I wouldn't take the verse you quoted to mean that we should avoid knowledge of Bible teachings apart from John 3:16.

I've always believed the saying about the difference between an argument and debate, and that is that in a debate, people are listening to each other. I agree that arguing is unnecessary, and more often a waste of time, but debating is a good way to learn.

But the real question has to do with defining when someone is being a pig (or swine) that Jesus talked about, and also what it means to NOT cast our pearls before swine. I think someone can act like a pig well before they get to the arguing or debating stage.

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I would definitely agree with Omena that the answers given by Bob and Kirk more or less sidestep the question, which is quite a legitimate question.

I can understand them doing that, however, because it's also a very HARD question. (I don't think that Omena answered it either!)

I would like to come up with some good answer for it too, though I have to admit that I don't have the time it would take right now, to sift through various thoughts.

I look forward to what others might feel about how we come to recognise who is a "pig" and who is not, as in who we should avoid when it comes to "casting pearls", which I take to mean sharing the pearls of Christ's wisdom.

Luke1433 said:

I look forward to what others might feel about how we come to recognise who is a "pig" and who is not, as in who we should avoid when it comes to "casting pearls", which I take to mean sharing the pearls of Christ's wisdom.

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You're trying to do the wrong thing. You're trying to find out who not to speak to. The Holy Spirit will tell you who to speak to, but if you're trying to figure out who not to speak to, you're working at the wrong task.

Back when I started bicycling seriously (when my knees started to give out from running), I was taught this lesson:

When you're approaching an obstacle, do not concentrate on the obstacle; concentrate on the path around the obstacle. If you concentrate on the obstacle, you will run right into it.

You're trying to concentrate on recognizing swine. Concentrate instead on recognizing sheep. You do that by paying attention to the Holy Spirit, because He's going to point out where the sheep are. The ones that hear Jesus' voice (from you) will respond appropriately. But thanks to what Jesus has taught us about swine, you have an explanation of those who do not.

Kirk wrote: "You're trying to do the wrong thing. You're trying to find out who not to speak to."

It's easy for any of us to slip into speaking dogmatically about things that are really open to several different interpretations, each of which has something good to be said for it.

Kirk, there may, in fact, be times when the Holy Spirit speaks to us specifically with instructions on what to say and to whom we should say it. But we also have instructions from Jesus to "preach the gospel to every creature". I don't see in the New Testament that either Jesus or his followers sat around doing nothing (or almost nothing) while they waited to be "led" to speak to someone.

In particular, I'm concerned about what JESUS has told me to do as a follower of his, and he has taken the time to specifically instruct me NOT to take his teachings to certain people whom he describes as pigs. So obviously I am going to give some thought to what he means by that.

I don't think it helps to have someone like yourself saying that I should NOT take that command from Jesus seriously.

Luke1433 said:

Kirk wrote: "You're trying to do the wrong thing. You're trying to find out who not to speak to."

It's easy for any of us to slip into speaking dogmatically about things that are really open to several different interpretations, each of which has something good to be said for it.

Kirk, there may, in fact, be times when the Holy Spirit speaks to us specifically with instructions on what to say and to whom we should say it. But we also have instructions from Jesus to "preach the gospel to every creature". I don't see in the New Testament that either Jesus or his followers sat around doing nothing (or almost nothing) while they waited to be "led" to speak to someone.

In particular, I'm concerned about what JESUS has told me to do as a follower of his, and he has taken the time to specifically instruct me NOT to take his teachings to certain people whom he describes as pigs. So obviously I am going to give some thought to what he means by that.

I don't think it helps to have someone like yourself saying that I should NOT take that command from Jesus seriously.

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Take all of His commands seriously. If you take care to do the things He said do, you will not do the things He told you not to do. If you're careful to listen to the Holy Spirit, you will take the gospel to those who you should.

But remember that Jesus' goal is salvation, not anti-salvation. He's trying to save people. If you're trying to identify people not to take the gospel to, you're working on anti-salvation. You have to have the same goal as Jesus.

The problem with having "who shall I not carry the gospel to" as a goal is that the Holy Spirit's job is not to tell you who not to take the gospel to. It's His job to tell you where to take the gospel, so you won't have the Holy Spirit's help in finding pigs, only in finding sheep.

"Holy Spirit, point out the pigs to me so I won't give them the gospel."

No, that won't work.

candle glow said:

Are you suggesting that we should throw our pearls to pigs so that we can later argue that we were not guilty of anti-salvation (whatever that means)?

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I am saying: Put your concentration on obeying the Holy Spirit. Concentrate on speaking to those the Holy Spirit tells you to speak to.

The swine are not to be preached to, but there may also be sheep who are not for you to preach to. It may be the wrong time or place for them, it may be the wrong time or place for you. In all times and places, depend on the Holy Spirit to tell you where, who, and when...and you won't have to worry about "Is he a pig?"

They passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia; and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them; and passing by Mysia, they came down to Troas.

A vision appeared to Paul in the night: a man of Macedonia was standing and appealing to him, and saying, “Come over to Macedonia and help us.” When he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go into Macedonia, concluding that God had called us to preach the gospel to them.- Acts 16

It grieves me when I see people using human understanding to pit one member of the Trinity against another. The Holy Spirit can lead us, but so can Jesus. God did not give us four different gospel records of what Jesus said for us to argue with what Jesus taught, based on human understanding... as though Jesus blew it by warning us about pigs when all we really need is the Holy Spirit.

All of this reactionary stuff about a simple command of Jesus is being repeatedly based on some conclusion jumps which assume that even discussing that command implies that there is something wrong with us spiritually.

As Candle has said, Jesus was cautioning us not to waste time. Obviously if there is someone to whom we SHOULD be witnessing, we are not going to be able to reach them if we are wasting our time on someone to whom we should NOT be witnessing.

Jesus is definitely not the dummy that so many people make him out to be, when they argue that he expressed himself poorly.

Jesus said "Don't cast your pearls before swine," and I think he meant exactly that. The only things up for debate are what he means by pearls and what he means by swine. The negative ("don't") is there for a reason, even if it offends some people.

It grieves me when I see people using human understanding to pit one member of the Trinity against another. The Holy Spirit can lead us, but so can Jesus. God did not give us four different gospel records of what Jesus said for us to argue with what Jesus taught, based on human understanding... as though Jesus blew it by warning us about pigs when all we really need is the Holy Spirit.

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Sorry, no, you are the one attempting to rely on human understanding by arguing there is some human way to distinguish who is a "swine" that should not be preached to.

You're trying to find some way to exclude people from the gospel by refusing to rely on the Holy Spirit, but rather on your interpretation of scripture, when Jesus explicitly commanded reliance on the Holy Spirit to understand scripture ("all truth" and even His words). Jesus and the Holy Spirit are One. You can't discount one and claim to be obedient to the other.

You pit one member of the Trinity against another by refusing to acknowledge what Jesus Himself said concerning the Holy Spirit, disobeying Jesus by discounting the Holy Spirit, why claiming to obey Jesus instead of the Holy Spirit.

candle glow said:

Hi Kirk, This is what you said in a previous post. It appears that you are saying it is NOT okay to ask the holy spirit to reveal to us who is a pig, so that we can avoid casting our pearls before that person.

It's strange to me that you make such a big deal about relying on the holy spirit to guide us, and yet you seem to be implying that the holy spirit cannot tell us to avoid a pig.

It appears that you believe the gospel SHOULD be given to pigs despite what Jesus said about NOT casting our pearls before pigs.

The bottom line seems to be that what Jesus said for us to do is contrary to what you believe the Holy Spirit says we should do.

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No, what I'm saying is that the mission is to carry the Gospel, and that the Holy Spirit works to carry out the mission.

Go back to what I said about a cyclist avoiding an obstacle. To avoid the obstacle, you concentrate on the path around it, not on the obstacle.

Have you ever used a GPS? Does the GPS tell you all the wrong routes, or does it tell you correct route?

"This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.http://bible.cc/1_timothy/2-5.htm" -- 1 Timothy 2

The inclination of God--the direction God is always going--is toward giving everyone the knowledge of the truth.

When you ask the question "Who should I not preach to?" you're going against God's grain, against His inclination. The question to ask is, "Who should I preach to?"

Yes, there are people you should not preach to. Some, not today. Some are for someone else to preach to. A small percentage will be people who won't accept it no matter what. There may be many reasons the Holy Spirit does not tell you to preach to that person, and it might not be because he's "swine."

If the Holy Spirit tells you, "Go to that corner and preach the gospel," why would their even be a question about whether there were swine there?

i think you over complicating it ..

i think (in a singular example. and it is only IMO ...

that the most precious one in my life is the Holy Spirit ..one searches to find him in your life as one searches for a most precious pearl ..the governmental rule of God in your heart .. the kingdom of God .

now if i am speaking of the lord Jesus and there are people mocking what i am sharing ..it is not rocket science to think to myself ..if i bring up the topic of the Holy Spirit ..they will mock him also - to their detriment ,for God is not mocked .

So both out of love and respect for the Holy Spirit ..AND out of love and concern for the mockers ..i will not cast out that pearl - because i know they will only mock.. thus ,i think , it is better to with-hold the pearl, then to consider any one swine .

for me - that is what that scripture is speaking about .

I agree that the most precious pearl is the Holy Spirit, but that is because the Holy Spirit IS the teachings of Jesus.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26)

I think people trample the teachings of Jesus when they say that his teachings are bad. I doubt a lot of Christians would come right out and say they think the teachings of Jesus are bad, but they do imply it through their unwillingness to consider that Jesus might have been serious about what he said. They imply it when they argue that Jesus' teachings would never work.

That's the frustration that I've felt from so many people in the world. I wouldn't define someone as a pig if they were genuinely questioning how the teachings of Jesus can work in our lives, but unfortunately it's not normally like that. Normally, people just ridicule me for even SUGGESTING that we should take the teachings of Jesus seriously, and based on what Jesus said himself about His teachings, I consider these people to be trampling them.

Omena said:

I agree that the most precious pearl is the Holy Spirit, but that is because the Holy Spirit IS the teachings of Jesus.

But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26)

I think people trample the teachings of Jesus when they say that his teachings are bad. I doubt a lot of Christians would come right out and say they think the teachings of Jesus are bad, but they do imply it through their unwillingness to consider that Jesus might have been serious about what he said. They imply it when they argue that Jesus' teachings would never work.

That's the frustration that I've felt from so many people in the world. I wouldn't define someone as a pig if they were genuinely questioning how the teachings of Jesus can work in our lives, but unfortunately it's not normally like that. Normally, people just ridicule me for even SUGGESTING that we should take the teachings of Jesus seriously, and based on what Jesus said himself about His teachings, I consider these people to be trampling them.

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re-but that is because the Holy Spirit IS the teachings of Jesus.

hey if i start a thread on that point ,would you be so kind as to visit it. - i wish to clarify what you mean ..i think this different perception has been a source of confusion which unintentionally raised conflict ... lets do a thread and discuss it

re-but that is because the Holy Spirit IS the teachings of Jesus.

hey if i start a thread on that point ,would you be so kind as to visit it. - i wish to clarify what you mean ..i think this different perception has been a source of confusion which unintentionally raised conflict ... lets do a thread and discuss it

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Sounds fine to me

"but that is because the Holy Spirit IS the teachings of Jesus."

Jesus said, "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."

Of course Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit will bring to our remembrance all the things that he taught. It is from the Holy Spirit that we have the four Gospels.

There certainly is an interchangeability thing here, where the Holy Spirit is the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus are the Holy Spirit. But a problem arises over which one we take over the other when there seems to be a contradiction. The presence of the Holy Spirit in each one of us is "by measure" (meaning that we are not perfect in the way that Jesus was perfect), and, because it is subjective, each of us is likely to have a DIFFERENT measure of the Holy Spirit, thus making it hard for us to come to agreement on what the Holy Spirit is telling us. Some incredibly un-Christian things have been done in the name of the Holy Spirit, and so I cannot find a basis for unity amongst our many and varied understandings of what the Holy Spirit is telling us personally to do.

However, with the teachings of Jesus we have a much more excellent "word of prophecy", even more reliable than the prophets of the Old Testament, who obviously were being moved by the Holy Spirit in what they wrote as well.

So the safest and most reliable way to go is to start with the teachings of Jesus, making them the Cornerstone or standard by which we judge all that we or anyone else claim to be the will of God as revealed to us personally through the Holy Spirit.

I feel that this approach has much greater hope of unity, because it start by admitting that we are each fallible in our understanding of what the Holy Spirit is telling us personally.

Luke1433 said:

"but that is because the Holy Spirit IS the teachings of Jesus."

Jesus said, "The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life."

Of course Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit will bring to our remembrance all the things that he taught. It is from the Holy Spirit that we have the four Gospels.

There certainly is an interchangeability thing here, where the Holy Spirit is the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Jesus are the Holy Spirit. But a problem arises over which one we take over the other when there seems to be a contradiction. The presence of the Holy Spirit in each one of us is "by measure" (meaning that we are not perfect in the way that Jesus was perfect), and, because it is subjective, each of us is likely to have a DIFFERENT measure of the Holy Spirit, thus making it hard for us to come to agreement on what the Holy Spirit is telling us. Some incredibly un-Christian things have been done in the name of the Holy Spirit, and so I cannot find a basis for unity amongst our many and varied understandings of what the Holy Spirit is telling us personally to do.

However, with the teachings of Jesus we have a much more excellent "word of prophecy", even more reliable than the prophets of the Old Testament, who obviously were being moved by the Holy Spirit in what they wrote as well.

So the safest and most reliable way to go is to start with the teachings of Jesus, making them the Cornerstone or standard by which we judge all that we or anyone else claim to be the will of God as revealed to us personally through the Holy Spirit.

I feel that this approach has much greater hope of unity, because it start by admitting that we are each fallible in our understanding of what the Holy Spirit is telling us personally.

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http://www.christianforums.com/t7741844/ - for differing topic