Is it OK to pursue a personal revival with everything I've got?

[TruthSeek3r]

What do you mean by "pursuing personal revival?

Not sure to be honest. Basically anything more profound than armchair/intellectual Christianity and "spiritual dryness".

I can only quote Biblical examples to get an idea of what it might look like:

29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness. (Acts 4:29-31 ESV)

And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. (Luke 4:1-2 ESV)

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all. (Luke 4:14 ESV)

Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:1-3 ESV)

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 ESV)

2 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (1 Corinthians 2:1-5 ESV)

19 But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power. 20 For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. (1 Cor 4:19-20 ESV)

11 All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (1 Cor 12:11 ESV)

18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ; (Romans 15:18-19 ESV)

8 But as for me, I am filled with power, with the Spirit of the Lord, and with justice and might, to declare to Jacob his transgression and to Israel his sin. (Micah 3:8 ESV)

5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. (2 Timothy 3:5 ESV)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:16-17 ESV)

17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servants and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
(Acts 2:17-18 ESV)

12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” (Romans 8:12-15 ESV)

17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” (Mark 16:17-18 ESV)​

What do you mean by "play all my cards"?

Use all spiritual practices I'm aware of.

What do you mean by "if this doesn't work"?

If after all my efforts I continue to be stuck in my current state, that would be pretty disheartening.

I could be wrong, but it sounds as though you want to seek the Spirit/more of God in the hopes of having some amazing experience, seeing dramatic things and receiving a healing/teaching/evangelistic ministry. And that all this intense fasting and middle of the night praying is in the hope that God will give you that.

I mean ... again ... I don't know. If God decides to do that, sure, that would be incredible, but of course, He is not obliged to. Nowhere in the Bible it is promised that if you seek God with all your heart He will give you an evangelistic ministry. The promise is that you will find Him, but what does that mean, in concrete practical terms? I don't know. I don't know what to expect.

As I said to hislegacy in post #17:

I'm stepping into unknown territory, but I presume that when success comes, you know it.

What are you seeking? A dramatic experience, or God himself?

I'm "seeking God himself", whatever that means (again, I don't know what to expect).

Yes, you may speak in tongues if you are filled with/baptised in the Spirit, you may prophesy etc - and you may not. Would you be able to accept that, or would you feel that your prayers had not been answered and it hadn't "worked"?

Again, I don't know. I don't know what to expect. This is unknown territory. But regarding the gift of tongues, that is just one among many other gifts (1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 1 Corinthians 12:27-31, Romans 12:3-8, Ephesians 4:11-12)

In fact, Paul recommendation is:

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. (1 Corinthians 14:1 NIV)​

 

[Strong in Him]

Not sure to be honest. Basically anything more profound than armchair/intellectual Christianity and "spiritual dryness".

I would say that the antidote to "armchair Christianity" is Christianity in action - showing your faith, and love for God, by your actions.
So, find a cause you are passionate about and get involved; ask God for a heart for the poor/homeless/refugees/disabled people and join, or start, a group, drop in centre, coffee morning, or whatever. Read the NT and/or OT prophets, note all the times that God says that he hates injustice and is on the side of the poor and downtrodden; note how the early church responded when they saw fellow Christians in need.

I can only quote Biblical examples to get an idea of what it might look like:

29 And now, Lord, look upon their threats and grant to your servants to continue to speak your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand to heal, and signs and wonders are performed through the name of your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness. (Acts 4:29-31 ESV)​

This prayer was offered by Apostles who were doing something. They had been sharing the Good News after Pentecost, were being persecuted by hostile authorities - possibly the same people who had killed Jesus only a few months before - and were praying for the strength not to give in but stand form against persecution, imprisonment, maybe even torture.

Note, they were filled with the Spirit for a purpose; not to boost their spiritual lives or make them feel better/happier - but in order to do a task.

And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness 2 for forty days, being tempted by the devil. And he ate nothing during those days. And when they were ended, he was hungry. (Luke 4:1-2 ESV)

14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit to Galilee, and a report about him went out through all the surrounding country. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified by all. (Luke 4:14 ESV)​

Jesus was led into the wilderness by the Spirit, because it was necessary for Jesus to be tempted by the devil. He needed to find out, and show the devil and us, what kind of Messiah he would be; one who gave in and got "power" and wealth by dubious means, or one who remained utterly faithful to God's will, even if that meant suffering and personal hardship.
He left the wilderness, having stood firm and overcome the devil, and was refilled with the Spirit so that he could go out and preach God's word.

Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. (Acts 13:1-3 ESV)​

These disciples were worshipping God when the Spirit spoke to them - and they were so attuned to God's voice that they were able to hear, and recognise it. Again, the Spirit told them to anoint Barnabas and Saul for a purpose.

8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 ESV)​

Yes the Spirit would empower them to be Jesus' witnesses - in Jerusalem, where Jesus had been killed as a false Messiah, in Samaria, which was an enemy of Israel, and to the ends of the earth.

2 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2 For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4 and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 so that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. (1 Corinthians 2:1-5 ESV)​

Paul was demonstrating the power of God as he preached the Gospel. Both Jesus and Peter said that God performed miracles to show that his words were true and that Jesus was who he said he was, John 10:25, John 10:38, Acts of the Apostles 2:22.
Acts 18 tells us of Paul's time in Corinth. He went to the synagogues to preach the Gospel to Jews, who opposed him. But he stayed in the city for 18 moths preaching the Good News.

19 But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power. 20 For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power. (1 Cor 4:19-20 ESV)​

The Kingdom of God is anywhere that God is king, and proclaimed as king.
Jesus showed us what God's kingdom looks like - it is a place where the blind, lame and deaf are healed, where demons are driven out, where people forgive even their enemies. It's a place where people put God first, and love of God before love of money - where the first are last and the last first, where the underdogs and unclean - women, children, gentiles, lepers - are welcomed, valued, restored and made whole. It is a place where Jesus' disciples love others just as he loved them - i.e. sacrificially. We need God's power to be able to love, and forgive, like this.
We cannot even enter God's kingdom unless we have been reborn by the Holy Spirit.

All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (1 Cor 12:11 ESV)​

Yes, spiritual gifts, faith, healing, prophecy, evangelism, the ability to discern evil spirits etc, are all given for a purpose. In Ephesians 4:11 Paul tells us that that purpose is to build up the church. Build up in the sense of encourage, and build up in the sense of increase - preaching the Good News so that more will become disciples.

8 But as for me, I am filled with power, with the Spirit of the Lord, and with justice and might, to declare to Jacob his transgression and to Israel his sin. (Micah 3:8 ESV)​

Filled with the Spirit for a purpose - to tell the whole nation of its sin and to preach repentance.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” (Romans 1:16-17 ESV)​

Yes; God's word has such power that it can lead people to salvation. Unbelievers become disciples, people go from darkness to light, they are forgiven and become new creations, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servants and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
(Acts 2:17-18 ESV)​

God's Spirit given for a purpose - so that God's people would prophesy.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would lead us, comfort us, help us in our Christian lives and so on - but he is not given to us so that we will "feel good/happy", be successful or have a great ministry. He is given to lead us to Jesus and enable us to love and serve God. Some people are filled with the Spirit, are great witnesses and lead great Christian lives - and they are not even aware of it. In fact someone once said that the closer we get to Jesus, the more we see our sin and imperfections.

Use all spiritual practices I'm aware of.

Jesus said "ask and you will receive".

If after all my efforts I continue to be stuck in my current state, that would be pretty disheartening.

I'm not sure what "state" you are currently in. But from experience I would say that it's important to:
a) consider that there MAY be a medical reason for the way you are feeling - like depression.
b) consider that at times we all feel spiritually dry. It may not be a matter of trying to pull ourselves out of it, but to seek God IN it. To use the time to focus on God: read his word; sing, and learn, new worship songs; focus on one of his qualities, like love, grace, mercy etc, learn verses that illustrate it.
c) Sometimes there may not be a reason for spiritual dryness. Sometimes God may allow it to test our faithfulness/commitment; are we following him expecting life to be dramatic/wonderful/good/happy all the time, or can we remain faithful when (if) we see nothing happening?
Habakkuk said "even if the fig tree doesn't blossom, there are no grapes on the vine, the olive crop fails, the fields produce no food and there are no animals - YET, I will rejoice in the Lord", Habakkuk 3:17.

I mean ... again ... I don't know. If God decides to do that, sure, that would be incredible, but of course, He is not obliged to. Nowhere in the Bible it is promised that if you seek God with all your heart He will give you an evangelistic ministry.

No, we aren't - I just used "evangelistic ministry" as an example of some dramatic event that you might have been expecting.
A number of Christians who talk of baptism in the Holy Spirit do say that lots of dramatic things happened - they spoke in tongues, began to prophesy, immediately gave up a bad habit, or lost the desire for it, began to laugh, cry or whatever. But an absence of these things does not mean that we have not received the Spirit, or that God has not answered our prayer.

The promise is that you will find Him, but what does that mean, in concrete practical terms? I don't know. I don't know what to expect.

As I said to hislegacy in post #17:

I'm stepping into unknown territory, but I presume that when success comes, you know it.

Can you thank God, believe in his promises, serve him etc even if you see nothing happening?
How do you know that God wants us to be "successful"/have success? Jesus said that if you want to be great, you must be the servant of all. Success, to Jesus, meant the cross; that was God's will for him. Before he died he was able to say, "I have finished the work you gave me to do" - even though very few believed, there were more who could be healed and son on - and on the cross he said "it is finished".

I would be very wary of chasing "success". Paul said that if we think we are standing firm we should be careful, in case we fall. "Success" to a Christian is standing firm, finishing the race, doing what God has called/asked us to do, no matter what the hardship.
God's power, glory and victory is seen most of all in the cross; John says that the cross is the definition of his love, 1 John 3:16.
Paul once listed all his achievements and successes and said that they were all garbage compared with the joy of knowing Christ, Philippians 3:7-8.

I'm "seeking God himself", whatever that means (again, I don't know what to expect).

Concentrate on God; his awesome love for you and what Jesus went through so that you might become his child, John 1:12.
I am certain that as you think about him and what he has done - created the universe out of nothing, sent Jesus to die for us so that we could be forgiven, sent his Spirit so that God himself lives in us and we are children of the King - then your love, faith and joy will begin to grow. It may take time; it may not be dramatic/happen overnight or immediately, but it will happen. Jesus said "seek and you will find", and promised that God gives his Holy Spirit to those who ask."

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. (1 Corinthians 14:1 NIV)​

And the first of those things is "follow the way of love". Are you doing that? Do you know God's love?
Love is the greatest, 1 Corinthians 13:1-3, 1 Corinthians 1:13. You could have all the spiritual gifts possible and an endless succession of good experiences - if you don't love, have love and show love; it's worthless.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Can you thank God, believe in his promises, serve him etc even if you see nothing happening?

It would be hard to make sense of. Can you be (continuously) filled with the Holy Spirit, led by the Holy Spirit, AND not experience anything at all? It doesn't make sense.

In every testimony I've watched or read about people who have encountered God they know that something real has happened. It's a conscious reality. It's not something that they "have to believe" that happened "theoretically".

Here is an example:

Carl Emerson has an extraordinary testimony as well: Jesus's Ministry

God's power, glory and victory is seen most of all in the cross; John says that the cross is the definition of his love, 1 John 3:16.
Paul once listed all his achievements and successes and said that they were all garbage compared with the joy of knowing Christ, Philippians 3:7-8.

I fully agree. The point is: how can you know Christ, and not experience anything at all?

Can you just know Christ "theoretically" / "intellectually"?

And the first of those things is "follow the way of love". Are you doing that? Do you know God's love?

Good question. I'm not sure. I certainly know about it. But I'm not sure if I know it, if that makes sense.

 

[Strong in Him]

It would be hard to make sense of. Can you be (continuously) filled with the Holy Spirit, led by the Holy Spirit, AND not experience anything at all? It doesn't make sense.

I didn't say that nothing will ever happen, and you will not feel anything, ever.
I was thinking more of baptism in the Holy Spirit where some people have said, even on these forums, that if you don't have an "experience", speak in tongues, receive some amazing gifts, feel God's love and joy etc, then you haven't been baptised in the Spirit.
I don't believe that. I have read testimonies from people who asked Jesus into their lives and/or asked to be baptised in the Spirit and they say that nothing, immediately happened at all - no drama, not emotion. But that over time people said to them; "you've changed recently/you're much happier, more forgiving etc; what's happened to you?"

It seems that the first time that people meet Christ, encounter his great love, realise how much he has done for them etc and really receive him into their hearts, there will be some kind of change. They have passed from darkness to light; they have received, and are able to rejoice in, God's love for them. But it's not like that for everyone. And the Christian life is not one series of dramatic, awesome "mountain top" experiences.

In every testimony I've watched or read about people who have encountered God they know that something real has happened. It's a conscious reality.

Yes, I'm sure it does.
A person knows when they meet God for the first time, when they believe, when they realise how much he loves them. Often people known when they met with God in their daily lives - though sometimes new Christians in particular may say that they didn't "feel" anything so they doubt it happened.
I thought you were talking about being filled with the Spirit and getting frustrated because you expected some experience and it didn't happen like that.

I fully agree. The point is: how can you know Christ, and not experience anything at all?

Everyone goes through times or doubt, dryness or feeling far from God - it doesn't mean that you don't know him.

What do you mean by "not experience anything?"
Do you see God in small miracles - a sunset, the birth of a lamb, a butterfly, the smile of a baby - or do you see him only if he does big things; healings and so on? Do you feel happiness or pleasure when you see him working in the world or other people's lives? Can you thank him for your many blessings, even if you don't feel pleasure in them or gratitude for them?

Can you just know Christ "theoretically" / "intellectually"?

Not really, I don't think - and in my own experience - because Christianity is essentially a relationship.
It's the difference between knowing about a person, D.O.B, family, favourite colour, hobbies etc etc, and knowing them; what makes them happy, sad, frustrated, how they would react in a certain situation, what qualities they have etc etc.
I have watched many Morecombe and Wise shows and clips, and can even repeat the dialogue of some of them. I felt as though I knew Eric Morecombe - but of course, I didn't.
I know a lot about our queen, but I don't know her.
I am friends on FB with people I was at school with; 40 years later and with little contact, I can't honestly say that I know them now.

Good question. I'm not sure. I certainly know about it. But I'm not sure if I know it, if that makes sense.

That made all the difference, for me.
For years I knew, in my head, that God loved me - but I couldn't accept it and it made little difference.
When I began to accept that God loved me because of who HE is - love - and not who I am - worthy, that was huge. I can never be worthy of God's love - all the fasting, praying, doing good things for others, reading the Bible etc, will never make me so.
Christ died for sinners. God loves because he IS love.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

I thought you were talking about being filled with the Spirit and getting frustrated because you expected some experience and it didn't happen like that.

I'm talking about everything actually. From having a born-again experience, to being baptized in the Holy Spirit, being continuously filled with the Holy Spirit, being guided by the Holy Spirit, receiving instructions from God, receiving spiritual gifts, etc. So far everything seems theoretical. I know a lot about all these things, theoretically.

Everyone goes through times or doubt, dryness or feeling far from God - it doesn't mean that you don't know him.

What do you mean by "knowing God"?
What is your definition of "knowing God"?

What do you mean by "not experience anything?"

I mean, if you read the Bible, if you study the life of Jesus, the Apostles, the Early Church, I mean, they were in a revival, they were on fire. That's not armchair, that's not just theory, that's not mere theoretical knowledge.

Do you see God in small miracles - a sunset, the birth of a lamb, a butterfly, the smile of a baby - or do you see him only if he does big things; healings and so on?

I mean, I understand the arguments for intelligent design. I'm familiar with Stephen Meyer, Michael Behe, James Tour, the Discovery Institute, etc. I'm well aware of the fact that there are very smart people out there who have found unsurmountable challenges for the plausibility of abiogenesis, the theory of evolution, etc.

In other words, when you appeal to the complexity of life and the universe, my brain basically parses it as the teleological argument (Teleological argument - Wikipedia). Sure, I get your point, you are talking about the teleological argument, it's one of the most compelling arguments in Christian Apologetics. I get it. I'm familiar with Christian Apologetics. I've watched lots of debates.

However, it's still intellectual information. It's an abductive argument. I see it intellectually. It makes theism way more probable, sure. But it doesn't change my life.

By the way, here is one of the latest conversion stories I've watched from a former atheist scientist who got convinced through his own studies of biochemistry (plus some supernatural experiences he had) that Christianity is true:

Why This Atheist Scientist Became a Believing Christian

Do you feel happiness or pleasure when you see him working in the world or other people's lives?

I've watched/read so many testimonies at this point that I've become almost totally numb to them. I see testimonies as pieces of testimonial data weighing favorably for the existence of the supernatural in general, and the truth of Christianity in particular. In fact, testimonies are the main piece of evidence that has convinced me that continuationism is more likely to be true than cessationism. I mean, I can't ignore the amount of people who have personally experienced the supernatural. A cessationist has to find ways to explain away and dismiss all this testimonial evidence. I can't. I've even heard outstanding stories from my own relatives and my next-door neighbor.

Can you thank him for your many blessings, even if you don't feel pleasure in them or gratitude for them?

I have to work on that.

That made all the difference, for me.
For years I knew, in my head, that God loved me - but I couldn't accept it and it made little difference.
When I began to accept that God loved me because of who HE is - love - and not who I am - worthy, that was huge. I can never be worthy of God's love - all the fasting, praying, doing good things for others, reading the Bible etc, will never make me so.
Christ died for sinners. God loves because he IS love.

Sure, I already knew about everything you just said. As I said, I know about lots of things theoretically.

But again, I need to transition from theory to reality. I need a breakthrough. That's why I said that I need a personal revival.

 

[NBB]

Get involved in a 'spirit-filled' church and STAY for a while, talk to the pastor that you want to be filled with the Holy spirit etc and know Jesus., in my humble opinion i think is the best 'shot' at what you are looking for, doesn't matter if the buidling and people are humble there, or if they make a lot of noise, God doesn't care about all that.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Get involved in a 'spirit-filled' church and STAY for a while, talk to the pastor that you want to be filled with the Holy spirit etc and know Jesus., in my humble opinion i think is the best 'shot' at what you are looking for, doesn't matter if the buidling and people are humble there, or if they make a lot of noise, God doesn't care about all that.

How can I know if a given church is 'spirit-filled'?

How can I know if a given church is NOT 'spirit-filled'?

What does a 'spirit-filled' church look like?

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm talking about everything actually. From having a born-again experience, to being baptized in the Holy Spirit, being continuously filled with the Holy Spirit, being guided by the Holy Spirit, receiving instructions from God, receiving spiritual gifts, etc.

Ok.
Well, again, I have read many testimonies where people who believe in Jesus/accept what he has done for them/choose to follow him are filled with his joy, peace and love, may feel great excitement, awe, gratitude, a sense of blessing etc. And I have read accounts of people receiving Jesus into their lives, "feeling" nothing at all and then later realising/being told they are happier, do not lose their temper so much, don't feel afraid etc.
It's the same with being baptised in the Spirit; many Christians describe an "experience" that involves speaking in tongues, feeling great joy, maybe prophesying etc. If that's what baptism is, I haven't received it. But I am certain that God's Spirit lives in me, and that when I ask to be refilled with his Spirit, he hears me. I would say that two of the main evidences for that are a greater longing for Jesus and God's word, and a greater passion for bringing the Good News to other people.

What do you mean by "knowing God"?
What is your definition of "knowing God"?

I mean, having a relationship with God; realising that he is not an impersonal force that we keep at arm's length and only pray to when we are in trouble - but that he is our loving, heavenly Father and wants us to know that we are his children.

In the OT, God was seen as someone Holy, remote, unapproachable. Very few people saw, or were visited by angels, they could only talk to God through prophets and if anyone were to "see" God, they would die.
But when Jesus was born, all that changed. Jesus was God, as well as being fully human. Even though people didn't realise it, that was God walking around Israel, touching unclean lepers, being contradicted and criticised by the religious leaders. That was God who walked around on dusty roads, getting tired, feeling moved by people's illnesses, sad at their sin, maybe frustrated at their behaviour. That was God who was lied about, betrayed, denied, arrested, had an illegal trial (at night) with false witnesses and was killed, even though he had done nothing wrong.
And Jesus did all that for us so that we could be forgiven for our sin, reconciled to his Father and become his children. He didn't die for people who were good enough, had done enough, read the Scriptures enough and kept all the rules - he died for sinners.

Knowing God means accepting, believing, being sure of, rejoicing in these things. For years I used to say, "God loves everyone; yeah, but he doesn't love me because I don't feel, and am not, worthy of his love. I do things wrong, I doubt, I question the Bible" - or whatever - "therefore he doesn't love me."
But he does.
And this is nothing at all to do with me and my sense of (un)worthiness, but because he is love.

Knowing God means talking to him, listening to him, believing that he wants to talk to you, that he has a purpose and plan for you, that he hears our prayers and, like any human father, longs for us to talk to him, ask for his help, share our day with him and tell him that we love him.
Knowing God means believing in, and accepting, his kindness, compassion, forgiveness and so on. It is the difference between saying "I believe God to be love, to be compassionate etc - because I have heard other people say that he is", and "I know God to be love because I have experienced, and received, his love for myself".
Knowing God means knowing, at least something, of his nature and character - so that if you hear someone say "God sits on a cloud and will throw thunderbolts at people if they cross him", you can say "I know God's not like that".

I mean, if you read the Bible, if you study the life of Jesus, the Apostles, the Early Church, I mean, they were in a revival, they were on fire.

Yes, after the resurrection and Pentecost, they were.
In the 3 years before that, though, they were men who followed Jesus around. They didn't always understand him, they doubted him, they were afraid when they saw his power, they argued between themselves about which of them was his greatest disciple. They fell asleep when he needed them to support him and ran away when he needed them. One of them denied knowing him, one betrayed him, one refused to believe unless he saw evidence. They had had good times, and experiences, but a lot of the time, didn't know what was going on.
They had just begun to believe that he might be the Messiah; someone who would save them - and he was crucified. In spite of his teaching, they were not expecting that, nor the resurrection.
They were on fire a) because they knew for themselves, without doubt, that Jesus had died and then been raised from the dead, and b) because they had been filled with the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of Jesus himself was living inside them, giving them power to speak out and witness. They had personally met, touched, talked to and been taught by the risen Christ. It wasn't a case of "someone told me this second hand, and logically it all fits"; they had personally met the risen Christ.
Saul of Tarsus knew about Jesus - and saw him as a false Messiah and threat to the Jewish faith. But everything changed when he met Jesus, was called by him and personally experienced his power, his love, his healing and so on.

I mean, I understand the arguments for intelligent design. I'm familiar with Stephen Meyer, Michael Behe, James Tour, the Discovery Institute, etc. I'm well aware of the fact that there are very smart people out there who have found unsurmountable challenges for the plausibility of abiogenesis, the theory of evolution, etc.

Genesis tells us that GOD created the world - God spoke, and it happened, God saw, God said etc.
Personally, I'm not bothered about HOW God created the world - the Bible doesn't tell us anyway. It just makes it clear that there is a Creator of the world and a purpose for it. It didn't "just happen", it wasn't that the right atoms, or whatever, "happened" to collide - it was created.

One of the reasons I'm not bothered about this, apart from not being a scientist, is because we can get so bogged down in discussions like this that we are distracted from the most important question. Jesus once asked his disciples, "who do you say that I am?" and this is still the most important question for us.
People are reconciled to God and "get to heaven" ONLY through Jesus - by accepting and believing what he did, said and taught. Nothing else. If you hear people say, "I'll never get to heaven", referring to their deeds, they are correct; they won't. Unless they have received Jesus and asked for his forgiveness and eternal life.

Yes, if you are a Christian and interested in debating the origins of the universe; fine. And this might be something that non Christians sometimes raise.
But believing in evolution doesn't mean you can't be saved and go to heaven. The only thing that prevents that, is rejecting Jesus.

However, it's still intellectual information. It's an abductive argument. I see it intellectually. It makes theism way more probable, sure. But it doesn't change my life.

Exactly.
The only thing that will change your life is believing in, accepting, receiving, getting to know Jesus and receiving HIS life. He IS the life, John 14:6 and he came so that we could have life, John 10:10.

 

[NBB]

How can I know if a given church is 'spirit-filled'?

How can I know if a given church is NOT 'spirit-filled'?

What does a 'spirit-filled' church look like?

They believe in being filled with the Holy spirit like pentecostals say.
They seek the presence of God, they believe and probably minister for miracles, they do deliverance if neccesary, they seek the power of God. etc etc. They believe in the gifts.

 

[ARBITER01]

Truth, I see that you are no longer a Christian seeker but have changed your affiliation to Christian,... are we to assume that your personal revival worked?

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Truth, I see that you are no longer a Christian seeker but have changed your affiliation to Christian,... are we to assume that your personal revival worked?

I'm sorry to disappoint you. I haven't changed my affiliation. I'm not sure if that is even possible. No revival yet. I've been extremely busy with so many things that I'm struggling to find the time.
I'm looking forward to the holidays to see if I manage to do something then.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm sorry to disappoint you. I haven't changed my affiliation. I'm not sure if that is even possible. No revival yet. I've been extremely busy with so many things that I'm struggling to find the time.
I'm looking forward to the holidays to see if I manage to do something then.

I'm not sure if I have got this right, but it seems to me that you are saying, "when I finish being busy, I'll find time for God."
But the Bible doesn't seem to make that distinction. God gives us all things and is in all things.

Noah knew God and had faith. He was called to build an ark to escape the flood - so when he was hammering, nailing, covering with pitch, rounding up animals etc, he was doing what God had told him to do.
In Exodus we are told that God gave a man gifts of craftsmanship that he needed to be able to build the tabernacle; so when he was hammering gold, working with metal, weaving or making furniture for the tabernacle, he was doing what God had gifted him to do.
David, the shepherd boy, looked after sheep, wrote poetry and played music - God used all those things to enable him to kill Goliath with a shepherd's sling, play music to soothe Saul and write Psalms.

Paul says, "whatever you do, work at it with your whole heart as though working for the Lord, and not for men", Colossians 3:23. He also said "whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God." Colossians 3:17.
Paul, himself, was an Apostle and teacher - but he was also a tentmaker, Acts of the Apostles 18:3. He worked at this to make money to support himself so that he was not burden, or inconvenience, the churches. I am sure he would have been praying/singing, possibly also repeating Scriptures as he worked, and that he would have regarded that just as much as God's work as the preaching and church planting that he did.

Do you believe, or even consider, that God gave you you gifts, skills, family and so on? That he may have led you, even if you were not aware of it, to your job/career? Are you aware that each new day, and even life itself, is a gift from God?
Could you thank him for it, or them? Could you ask him to guide/strengthen/encourage you as you work? Take a moment in a lunch break to read a Bible verse and use it as a meditation, or thanksgiving? Could you use a walk, or car journey, to work to look at the flowers/trees/animals/people around you and thank God for them?

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Do you believe, or even consider, that God gave you you gifts, skills, family and so on? That he may have led you, even if you were not aware of it, to your job/career? Are you aware that each new day, and even life itself, is a gift from God?
Could you thank him for it, or them? Could you ask him to guide/strengthen/encourage you as you work? Take a moment in a lunch break to read a Bible verse and use it as a meditation, or thanksgiving? Could you use a walk, or car journey, to work to look at the flowers/trees/animals/people around you and thank God for them?

Sounds like we have completely different brains. No, I don't have those "feelings" when I look at things. Probably another reason why I need a personal revival ...

 

[Strong in Him]

Sounds like we have completely different brains. No, I don't have those "feelings" when I look at things. Probably another reason why I need a personal revival ...

You don't need to necessarily have "feelings"; just tell/remind yourself that God created.

I know you might have questions about evolution, or HOW he created. But the Bible doesn't tell us HOW; he just did. Genesis 1 tells us that God is behind the whole universe. It didn't just randomly happen, with the right molecules colliding at the right time - if that IS what happened. God spoke, and it came into being.

While I don't get hung up on evolution or how everything started, and I certainly don't believe that to be the most important question, I do think that how we see things makes a difference.
If someone believes the universe "just happened"; developed all on it's own and dies/regenerates all on its own, they may not regard it as that special or important, take it all for granted and/or go around without noticing it. The same with people - if they only exist through luck, fate or the random collision of atoms, they may not be that important, and expendable.

But if someone believes that GOD, who is love, created this whole universe for a purpose, and made human beings in his own image; to me, that makes all the difference. God chose to make you, and me, for a purpose - we are his workmanship, Ephesians 2:10 and he has work for us to do.

 

[TruthSeek3r]

An inspiring testimony. There is hope:

 

[Always in His Presence]

Testimony time - how is it going?

 

[TruthSeek3r]

Testimony time - how is it going?

Terribly. Overwhelmed with life distractions and still hitting the wall of divine hiddenness.

 

[mourningdove~]

"You will seek Me and find Me when you seek Me with all of your heart."

~Jeremiah 29:13

 

[Always in His Presence]

Terribly. Overwhelmed with life distractions and still hitting the wall of divine hiddenness.

What is divine hiddenness??

 

[TruthSeek3r]

What is divine hiddenness??

See Seeking God & the problem of divine hiddenness