Is it me?

[FaithPrevails]

I am less worried about the short-term affects as I am the lifetime affects of being raised in this atmosphere. To add to my wife, her father taught his 2 kids, admittedly, that it's not wrong unless you're caught. Her mother has basically blamed me for my wife's actions. Of their two children, one is serving a 25 yr sentence and the other is in spiritual bondage right now. That's not very encouraging.

Short term affects? A bitter custody battle will have more than short-term affects on your daughter. Especially if your estranged wife gets the notion to attempt to estrange you from your daughter b/c of your actions in the courtroom.

Again, I don't disagree that you should pursue custody. But, what happens when you "expose" your wife for the immoral person that she is in the courtroom and try to use it to get custody and your daughter learns of what you say to the judge? What happens if your wife tries to paint YOU as the monster b/c you are trying to take your daughter from her?

These are the types of concerns I am asking you to consider in the process.

Seek the custody, but do it in a Godly way. Do not disparage or discredit your wife, b/c the courts will only see that as a bitter man seeking revenge. Instead, build a case for custody on all the positive reasons why YOU would make the better custodial parent.

I've been through this - I have an idea of what I'm talking about here. Read up on the child welfare laws as to what constitutes neglect and/or abuse and you will see that trying to build a moral case against your ex is NOT a wise approach to use in the courtroom.

I would also caution you to beware of any attorney who encourages you to engage in such a smear campaign b/c they only have their on financial interests at heart if they do. They will get rich off of your battle and, at the end of it all, it may not be worth the price you/your daughter end up paying emotionally.

 

[JanniGirl]

Mark -- Not trying to rub your face in sin (really). But weren't you also addicted to pornography and viewing it regularly prior to your separation?

I guess I don't see how you can be so, so judgemental of your spouse when you've admittedly been trapped in sexual sin, yourself (albeit in the past) . . . . .

She's a worse influence because she did bad things prior to separation but you're A-Ok??

-- I do hope things go well for you, but painting your spouse as the "bad guy" while you're the "good guy" may not be productive in the long run; especially for your daughter.

 

[marksaysay]

First of all, it's not only about what she did prior but after. She's still doing it. I'm not saying I'm perfect and never did I say that. But what I am saying is there is absolutely no way an adulterous lifestyle is setting a good example for my daughter. Remember, we're still legally and biblically married.

Not to mention the fact that several have commented to me about how unkept my daughter has been. And don't forget our charge as parents to bring children up under the admonition of the Lord. Wife has been to church maybe 3 times in 6 months. Yes, I had a problem. And it was one that I was actively fighting but my wife doesn't care. That's a big difference.

I won't be able to look myself in the eye if I don't try. Daughter will be affected if I do and if I don't. There is more upside for me trying.

 

[chaz345]

Mark -- Not trying to rub your face in sin (really). But weren't you also addicted to pornography and viewing it regularly prior to your separation?

I guess I don't see how you can be so, so judgemental of your spouse when you've admittedly been trapped in sexual sin, yourself (albeit in the past) . . . . .

She's a worse influence because she did bad things prior to separation but you're A-Ok??

-- I do hope things go well for you, but painting your spouse as the "bad guy" while you're the "good guy" may not be productive in the long run; especially for your daughter.

This is about the clearest example I've ever seen around here of blaming the victim. Or of saying one sin justifies or excuses another.

 

[chaz345]

Short term affects? A bitter custody battle will have more than short-term affects on your daughter. Especially if your estranged wife gets the notion to attempt to estrange you from your daughter b/c of your actions in the courtroom.

Again, I don't disagree that you should pursue custody. But, what happens when you "expose" your wife for the immoral person that she is in the courtroom and try to use it to get custody and your daughter learns of what you say to the judge? What happens if your wife tries to paint YOU as the monster b/c you are trying to take your daughter from her?

These are the types of concerns I am asking you to consider in the process.

Seek the custody, but do it in a Godly way. Do not disparage or discredit your wife, b/c the courts will only see that as a bitter man seeking revenge. Instead, build a case for custody on all the positive reasons why YOU would make the better custodial parent.

I've been through this - I have an idea of what I'm talking about here. Read up on the child welfare laws as to what constitutes neglect and/or abuse and you will see that trying to build a moral case against your ex is NOT a wise approach to use in the courtroom.

I would also caution you to beware of any attorney who encourages you to engage in such a smear campaign b/c they only have their on financial interests at heart if they do. They will get rich off of your battle and, at the end of it all, it may not be worth the price you/your daughter end up paying emotionally.

Not to mention the fact that adulterous or other immoral behavior by the mother is usually not admissable in custody proceedings in most states. Heck in a lot of cases even hard drug use isn't, by itself admissable if we're talking about the mother.

 

[chaz345]

Understand that it did hurt and I also understand your legal question. But I have a moral obligation to give my daughter the best chance in life and being raised by a mother who thinks it's okay to send nude pictures of herself to several guys (I have proof), to have explicit sexual conversations with guys (I have proof), all just days after a separation began for purpose of figuring things out and prior to divorce is not a good example. Nor is the fact that I know of her involvement (not all sexual) with about 12 guys in a spam of 2 months after the seperation. That doesn't include the last 8 months. Now she's got another man not her husband around our daughter. I can't simply accept that anymore. I have to try.

Just keep in mind that in most states none of that is admissable in a custody hearing.

 

[FaithPrevails]

Here is a sampling from one state as to the rules/regulations of Child Abuse and Neglect, which are the only substantial things you can use against your wife in a court of law with regards to custody.

Definitions of Child Abuse and Neglect

Your daughter being unkept (whatever that means) or exposed to her mother's relationships outside of the marital bonds do not constitute neglect or abuse, despite being morally/ethically unsound.

If you try to use the things that you have mentioned in this thread as your reasons for seeking custody, you are going to fall flat on your face. Put your hurt and injured pride aside and realize that for your sake as well as your daughter's.

Can you, instead, list for us all of the benefits that your daughter would enjoy by being in your primary custodial care? Those are the things that can/will sway a judge, if anything at all will. Otherwise, as I said before, you will be seen as a bitter ex-spouse seeking revenge on his estranged wife and not caring about the impact it has on your child in the process. Definitely not the picture you want to paint for a judge.

 

[dorig59]

First of all, it's not only about what she did prior but after. She's still doing it. I'm not saying I'm perfect and never did I say that. But what I am saying is there is absolutely no way an adulterous lifestyle is setting a good example for my daughter. Remember, we're still legally and biblically married.

Not to mention the fact that several have commented to me about how unkept my daughter has been. And don't forget our charge as parents to bring children up under the admonition of the Lord. Wife has been to church maybe 3 times in 6 months. Yes, I had a problem. And it was one that I was actively fighting but my wife doesn't care. That's a big difference.

I won't be able to look myself in the eye if I don't try. Daughter will be affected if I do and if I don't. There is more upside for me trying.

I don't see why it would harm her at all if you do try. And don't worry yourself about what you should or shouldn't use in court because your lawyer will be the one to advise you and actually the lawyer will do most of the talking in court. You will, more than anything, sit there and answer a few questions by the judge. So just let your lawyer guide you.

 

[marksaysay]

So I just left lawyers office and I told him everything. He didn't tell me that morality was insubmissible but he actually requested the proof that I have. But he also did reiterate there are no guarantees. I know there aren't and didn't expect them. I'm gonna try all I can and just let God to the rest.

I didn't want to use the court to fight this battle but I've realized it's the only option I have. Not only is it the best chance for me to take care of me but it's the best chance I have for my daughter.

 

[BlueJay83]

but it's the best chance I have for my daughter.

and that is what makes it OK.

I hope it goes well for you.

 

[dorig59]

Mark, just out of curiosity, how old is your daughter?

 

[marksaysay]

She's 8 and extremely smart (she's in advanced classes and it's been discussed even about skipping a grade...just talk). I tell people she gets it from her dad. LOL

 

[dorig59]

I'm sure she does get it from you!!!

 

[marksaysay]

I'm sure she does get it from you!!!

Flattery wil get you...umm...everywhere!!! It's good to make light of such a trying situation. Obviously, the aforementioned statement is always said jokingly.

My wife, though, in her NORMAL state of mind is actually pretty intelligent, also. And I stress the word normal. The lawyer said today after I brought up the a statement from my wife that we wouldn't be where we are (going through divorce) if I had just left her alone (referring to me telling her she needed to stop her activities, before I discovered she had already been unfaithful, but before she filed for divorce). He said she was delusional to think a married man would say nothing about his wife doing those things.

My wife as I once knew her is MIA. She is not gone and I'm convinced the other man does not have my wife. He has someone that looks like her. My wife is caring, compassionate, and loving. She put others before herself. My wife tried to live for God as best she could and sought to know him better. The other man doesn't have my wife.

But she is only MIA because she's still in there somewhere. Unfortunately, God is the only one who can find her and bring her back. I would like to believe that when that happens, I would still be willing to have her back. Right now, that is an uncertainty. Time will only tell....

 

[FaithPrevails]

Success Factors for Fathers Seeking Custody of Their Children

Source - Child Custody for Fathers - Strategies for Fathers Seeking Custody

With everything about your life under the inspection during your fight for custody, it is imperative to know how to play your cards.

Proving yourself to be competent and trustworthy is not enough. You must also show that you are willing to allow your child to have the best possible relationship with their mother. One big mistake you can make is keeping your child from their mother whether it be on the phone or in person. Unless she is completely incompetent, it will definitely hurt your case.

You must show that your integrity is what it should be. Courts do not want to give custody to a spiteful parent that is looking to hurt the other and will not side with a bias parent.

You must show that your intentions are for what is in your child's best interests and not your own. I cannot stress enough the importance of maintaining that your intentions is to provide your child with everything they need to have a healthy relationship with the mother.

The biggest mistake that people fighting for custody makes is to lose their cool and bad mouth the other parent. Speaking poorly of your child's mother hurts your case and your child.

The child will then feel stuck in the middle, not wanting to betray either of you and feeling unable to please you. If you want to get custody of your children, your have to put your best foot forward every time. Go to court with the best chances of winning your custody case!

 

[marksaysay]

It is and never has been my intent to keep her away. I just don't want her to be the main parental influence.

 

[dorig59]

There ya go!

Really guys, just because he said he was going to fight for this didn't mean he was going to fight dirty somehow. He's just going to go for it & get it done. And like I said before, his lawyer knows how things work & will advise him accordingly.

 

[dorig59]

One other thought I just had, Mark, that I forgot to ask is who has her primarily right now? If she's with her mother for a long time before this goes to court, the judge will most likely rule to leave her where she is because it will be disruptive to move her. Better ask the lawyer about that one. Maybe you could get an emergency order of joint custody at the very least for the time being.

 

[FaithPrevails]

There ya go!

Really guys, just because he said he was going to fight for this didn't mean he was going to fight dirty somehow. He's just going to go for it & get it done. And like I said before, his lawyer knows how things work & will advise him accordingly.

I don't trust lawyers. My ex has used a handful of horrible lawyers, including one that allowed him to file false kidnapping charges against me. Most family law attorneys are not exactly of upstanding moral character. They work in a field that can earn them a TON of money if they manipulate someone's raw emotions.

I'm not posting the things that I post as accusations, I am posting them to encourage him to take the high road in the process.

He has shared here the awful things about his ex that are prompting him to seek custody. All I or anyone else is saying is that her being a horrible, immoral person is going to have little to no bearing on his custody case unless he can prove actual severe neglect or abuse.

When I asked why he was seeking custody personally, the next post basically just badmouthed his ex more, which WILL backfire on him in court. I get needing to vent about the other side. But, I don't think it's wrong to caution him not to use those feelings as his primary reason for seeking custody when it comes right down to the nitty gritty.

Why so much resistance to what I have to say?

 

[FaithPrevails]

It is and never has been my intent to keep her away. I just don't want her to be the main parental influence.

I get that, truly I do. But, as I have consistently said, you have to build a case to prove to the judge as to WHY you are the best choice to be the main parental influence.

Did you read the first link I posted? That's from a man who won custody of his son. I would think his wisdom would bear heeding, if you find mine unpalatable.