Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

trophy33 · May 26, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
The Sabbath was made for man- not just Jews

Thats not what Jesus said. Again, you ignore the context like nothing was said in posts before. Are multiple people using your account?

Jesus was not making some out of the blue statement about the Sabbath being suddenly globalized for all humanity. The context is that Pharisees asked Jesus why His disciples are doing what is not allowed to do on Sabbath.

SabbathBlessings · May 26, 2023

SB said
The Sabbath was made for man

You said

myst33 said:
Thats not what Jesus said.

Jesus said (in His own Words)

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

I am going to believe His Words.

myst33 said:
Again, you ignore the context like nothing was said in posts before. Are multiple people using your account?

Jesus was not making some out of the blue statement about the Sabbath being suddenly globalized for all humanity. The context is that Pharisees asked Jesus why His disciples are doing what is not allowed to do on Sabbath.

If Jesus intended the Sabbath to be made for only Jews which was your first claim, He would have said so. Now you're saying it has to do with what's not allowed on the Sabbath, which wasn't the case, no sin to eat on the Sabbath and why Jesus was correcting them and yes, Jesus was stating the Sabbath was made for mankind (human-beings- for our own good) that He is Lord of- it is His holy day Isaiah 58:13 and He would know the Creator, how to keep the Sabbath which was never meant to be a burden for mankind 1 John 5:3 but was what the Pharisees were teaching, the Sabbath is meant to delight yourself in the Lord and the Lord is not against eating on the Sabbath, even for David who was being chased and eating showbread because he was hungry. We serve a practical Creator who knows what’s best for us.

Anyway, we have free will, thanks for chiming in and we will probably have to end it with agree to disagree.

DamianWarS · May 26, 2023

HIM said:
He healed and spoke of not ignoring emergencies

What greater emergency is the lost? Cutting grass is not cutting grass, it's a mechanism to share the gospel

DamianWarS · May 26, 2023

HIM said:
The Mission is to lead to Christ who saves us from a life of sinning through His indwelling. So if we use sin to try to show Christ and His Way, we are not actually showing Christ and His Way we are showing them us and our way. In that they will be worse off than they were before. In that they will think they are and in reality they are not. For they will still be in their sin. Because the one who try to lead did so in their own surmising and will, and not through Christ.

I'm only speaking of lawful actions here so constantly telling me they are sinful isn't engaging the point. In order to show me why these actions are sinful you need to show me why they are not good. My suggest is also driven at sharing the gospel and reaching the lost not cutting grass (in case you're confusing the priorities)

DamianWarS · May 26, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
We are told no secular work on God’s holy Sabbath day Isaiah 58:13 Exodus 20:8. With this kind of creative thinking where do we draw the line. Mowing the lawn for gospel teaching. Watching football on Sabbath for gospel teaching. Smoking cigarettes for gospel teaching. Going to bars for gospel teaching. We could literally create anything we want, but at the end whose will are we following.

I'm not suggesting secular work. I'm suggesting lawful moral work focused on sharing the gospel. If you're confused how we can stay moral in this space then ask yourself can I watch football, smoke, go to bars etc... to give glory to God on a Tuesday? We have all this freedom on every other day yet we seem to be able to figure it out, so I don't know why this turns into chaos on the Sabbath but manageable on every other day.

trophy33 · May 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
SB said
The Sabbath was made for man

You said

Jesus said (in His own Words)

Mark 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

I am going to believe His Words.

If Jesus intended the Sabbath to be made for only Jews which was your first claim, He would have said so. Now you're saying it has to do with what's not allowed on the Sabbath, which wasn't the case, no sin to eat on the Sabbath and why Jesus was correcting them and yes, Jesus was stating the Sabbath was made for mankind (human-beings- for our own good) that He is Lord of- it is His holy day Isaiah 58:13 and He would know the Creator, how to keep the Sabbath which was never meant to be a burden for mankind 1 John 5:3 but was what the Pharisees were teaching, the Sabbath is meant to delight yourself in the Lord and the Lord is not against eating on the Sabbath, even for David who was being chased and eating showbread because he was hungry. We serve a practical Creator who knows what’s best for us.

Anyway, we have free will, thanks for chiming in and we will probably have to end it with agree to disagree.

Again, you are trying to find your theology in a text that is about a totally different issue.

The issue was not "was Sabbath given only to Jews or to all humanity", but "why do your disciples do what is not allowed to do on Sabbath".

Therefore, Jesus did not answer your question, but theirs. He is not saying that Sabbath is for all humanity, he is saying that He is above Sabbath, so His disciples can do what they need, on Sabbath.

He had no need to say "its only for Jews", because this was not the topic of the situation. Gentiles were not the topic, His disciples were the topic.

This is not any "lets agree that we disagree", you are simply ignoring the broader context of the verses you use. Which is no "alternative possibility" we can agree or disagree about. Wrong usage of Scriptures is not a subject of agreement.

SabbathBlessings · May 27, 2023

DamianWarS said:
I'm not suggesting secular work. I'm suggesting lawful moral work focused on sharing the gospel. If you're confused how we can stay moral in this space then ask yourself can I watch football, smoke, go to bars etc... to give glory to God on a Tuesday? We have all this freedom on every other day yet we seem to be able to figure it out, so I don't know why this turns into chaos on the Sabbath but manageable on every other day.

It's a sin to not keep our bodies a temple to the Lord on any day and it's not a sin to mow our lawns 6 days a week Exodus 20:9 but it is a sin to do work on the Sabbath Exodus 20:8-11 Isaiah 58:13 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so regardless how creative one gets, it's still a sin.

FWIW- I said yes to your poll because it didn't say cutting grass on the Sabbath- it just said Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting grass- of course not six days a week, but as many others have also stated, we lead by example so never a good idea to do something that is a sin for the sake of others, it defeats the purpose.

Leaf473 · May 27, 2023

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 58:13 - New King James Version

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,

www.biblegateway.com

Mowing someone else's lawn wouldn't count as doing your own pleasure, in my reading of the scripture.

It sounds to me similar to the kind of fast that God want

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 58:6 - New King James Version

“Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke?

www.biblegateway.com

HIM · May 27, 2023

DamianWarS said:
What greater emergency is the lost? Cutting grass is not cutting grass, it's a mechanism to share the gospel

Sinning is not sharing the Gospel. It is sharing Satan and his will. It is not of Christ it is anti-christ.

HIM · May 27, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 58:13 - New King James Version

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the Lord honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words,

www.biblegateway.com

Mowing someone else's lawn wouldn't count as doing your own pleasure, in my reading of the scripture.

It sounds to me similar to the kind of fast that God want

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 58:6 - New King James Version

“Is this not the fast that I have chosen: To loose the bonds of wickedness, To undo the heavy burdens, To let the oppressed go free, And that you break every yoke?

www.biblegateway.com

Your reading, but not what is plainly written.
Exod 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Always looking for loopholes. Extremely sad....

HIM · May 27, 2023

Isa 1:10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.

HIM · May 27, 2023

Welcome to the age of subjectivity. Aleister Crowley would be proud of the work in which he propagated.

Leaf473 · May 27, 2023

HIM said:
Your reading, but not what is plainly written.
Exod 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Always looking for loopholes. Extremely sad....

Bible Gateway passage: John 5:17 - New American Standard Bible

But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”

www.biblegateway.com

HIM · May 27, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Bible Gateway passage: John 5:17 - New American Standard Bible

But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”

www.biblegateway.com

AS PER HIS EXAMPLE Healing, ministerial work in the church for church service. Pulling someone or something out of a ditch because they are hurting or in distress. Keeping us alive. For it is in Him we live move and have our being.

Always looking for loopholes. Extremely sad....

Leaf473 · May 27, 2023

HIM said:
AS PER HIS EXAMPLE Healing, ministerial work in the church for church service. Pulling someone or something out of a ditch because they are hurting or in distress. Keeping us alive. For it is in Him we live move and have our being.

Always looking for loopholes. Extremely sad....

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12:12-27 - New American Standard Bible

For just as the body is one and yet has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the...

www.biblegateway.com

DamianWarS · May 27, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
said yes to your poll because it didn't say cutting grass on the Sabbath

Christ says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbbath. "Goodness" is not defined by the Sabbath so it matters not if its done on or off it can still be good. If it is good, then it is lawful.

DamianWarS · May 27, 2023

HIM said:
Sinning is not sharing the Gospel. It is sharing Satan and his will. It is not of Christ it is anti-christ.

True, but what does have to do with the op? I'll reminded you there is nothing constructive about this. Sure call something whatever you want, but it's easy to throw around words, just make sure you tell us why... ie critical engagement

Leaf473 · May 28, 2023

I find the idea that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath very interesting, and hopefully this post is in line with the thread topic.

How is it that an activity which is good a few minutes before sunset becomes evil a few minutes after?

I think an unspoken assumption is that there is something morally good about keeping the 7th day. But the 7th day has no obvious moral aspect to it. Consider the example of being in a coma. When you come out, you will still have your moral sense that stealing is wrong. But you won't know what day of the week it is until someone tells you.

Studyman · May 30, 2023

DamianWarS said:
Is there a greater emergency than the lost? You might be confusing the goal. The goal is not cutting grass. The goal is reaching the lost and pulling them out of pits. "Cutting grass" may be used as a mechanism to reach that goal just as many other acts may do the same and this is what makes it good.

In my understanding, it's about Honoring God by walking in HIS Ways, not your own. If you would try and consider more than just ONE sentence the Christ of the Bible Spoke, perhaps your views would change, and you could see what others are trying to show you.

Luke 4: 25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; (This certainly seems like an emergency to me) 26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

Why would Jesus teach this? If you are saving the lost, shouldn't you know?

Matt. 10: 12 And when ye come into an house, salute it. (Would this also not include Widows?) 13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

The Christ of the Bible instructs you in so many things, and yet, you won't even acknowledge them. And why? So you can justify treating God's Holy Day the same as all other days?

This same Christ says this about His Sabbath HE Himself said was "Made for man".

Is. 58: 13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Yes, you would receive lots of accolades for mowing Lawns for poor widows on God's Holy Sabbaths, from those in this world who also treat it as just another day. But it seems to me that she would be better served "Seeking first the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness", and then you can mow her Lawn on your time, and not His.

Studyman · May 30, 2023

Leaf473 said:
I find the idea that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath very interesting, and hopefully this post is in line with the thread topic.

How is it that an activity which is good a few minutes before sunset becomes evil a few minutes after?

I think an unspoken assumption is that there is something morally good about keeping the 7th day. But the 7th day has no obvious moral aspect to it.

Just because a man may not understand or believe in God's instructions, doesn't make them irrelevant. Gathering Sticks to make a fire was not evil, unless you waited until God's Holy Day to Gather them. God's Sabbath has a purpose for men, at least according to the Christ of the Bible. Those who have been convinced God is illogical, or His Sabbath Commandment not moral, as your post implies, will never know the purpose. Sure, they will still preach in His Name. They will still help get folks off drugs and away from crime, and they might create a huge religious business that does nothing but mow widow's lawns. But Jesus warns of this exact thing. There are some who believe we should Honor the Christ in believing ALL of His Sayings, not just those they can use to justify a religious sect or lifestyle, like the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus Time did.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Leaf473 said:
Consider the example of being in a coma. When you come out, you will still have your moral sense that stealing is wrong. But you won't know what day of the week it is until someone tells you.

Yes, if a man has been convinced to reject and/or ignore some of God's "Instruction in righteousness" before a coma, no doubt he will have the same mindset after the coma. A man either believes in the Christ of the Bible or he doesn't, in my view.

Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

Is it good to help a disabled widow by cutting her grass?

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