Is it everyone's calling?

[actionsub]

You must be very careful not to make suggestions that will in any way be critical of those you wish to help.

In that light, I'm thinking less of "give a man a fish..." and more "give a man a fishing pole and a tackle box". It's one thing to say "why don't you just get a job" and another to help them access the tools to do so. And like you said, it must be done with an eye to maintaining their own human dignity.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

In that light, I'm thinking less of "give a man a fish..." and more "give a man a fishing pole and a tackle box". It's one thing to say "why don't you just get a job" and another to help them access the tools to do so. And like you said, it must be done with an eye to maintaining their own human dignity.

People need a plan as well.

 

[actionsub]

People need a plan as well.

That comes with the tackle box, as in "teach a man to fish..."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That comes with the tackle box, as in "teach a man to fish..."

I meant what to do with the paycheck once received.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

How would you respond to someone who says,

"Social justice is not my calling"?

There's a certain politics to engaging in Social Justice circles, if you're not good at navigating the gossip and other elements, it's just not for you.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The term "social justice" suggests that some injustice is being done to some segment of society by another segment of society, usually the dominant segment.

 

[Paidiske]

From the SOP of this forum: "This forum is not the place to challenge or debate the validity of efforts at welfare or philanthropy, social justice as an aspiration, or the desire for change in society."

 

[OldWiseGuy]

From the SOP of this forum: "This forum is not the place to challenge or debate the validity of efforts at welfare or philanthropy, social justice as an aspiration, or the desire for change in society."

But we can challenge the effectiveness of those efforts, can't we?

 

[Paidiske]

Yes, but it seems to me that debating the underlying premise that there are structural injustices in our society belongs elsewhere.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

How would you respond to someone who says,

"Social justice is not my calling"?

Many of the times that the LORD mentioned hell were all in connection to people "not being involved in social justice", i.e. helping the poor.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man was a story of a man who refused to help a beggar.

The depiction of the sheep and goats at the judgment day again depicts action that would be termed social justice.

Mat 25:37-45 Then will the upright make answer to him, saying, Lord, when did we see you in need of food, and give it to you? or in need of drink, and give it to you? And when did we see you wandering, and take you in? or without clothing, and give it to you? And when did we see you ill, or in prison, and come to you? And the King will make answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Because you did it to the least of these my brothers, you did it to me. Then will he say to those on the left, Go from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which is ready for the Evil One and his angels: For I was in need of food, and you gave it not to me; I was in need of drink, and you gave it not to me: I was wandering, and you took me not in; without clothing, and you gave me no clothing; ill, and in prison, and you came not to me. Then will they make answer, saying, Lord, when did we see you in need of food or drink, or wandering, or without clothing, or ill, or in prison, and did not take care of you? Then will he make answer to them, saying, Truly I say to you, Because you did it not to the least of these, you did it not to me.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yes, but it seems to me that debating the underlying premise that there are structural injustices in our society belongs elsewhere.

Doesn't that separate the solution from the problem?

 

[Paidiske]

Again, that debate does not belong in this forum.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Again, that debate does not belong in this forum.

Don't you think debate over the effectiveness of social justice efforts is well within scope of the SOP.

Social Justice Ministries Forum Statement of Purpose

The Social Justice Ministries forum is for members who are involved in ministries which focus on serving the Kingdom of God in practical ways. Whether the ministry is responding to human needs with loving service, challenging violence and pursuing peace, seeking reconciliation, seeking to transform unjust structures in society, advocating for the powerless, or striving to sustain and renew the life of the earth (safeguarding the integrity of creation), all of these have their place under the umbrella of "Social Justice Ministries." Whether you work with a church, an agency, or any other organization; whether you work with others or on your own; this is the place to share ideas and resources, and to encourage and inspire one another.

 

[Paidiske]

Effectiveness, yes. Over the premise that social justice efforts are needed, no, as per the part of the SOP I've quoted.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Effectiveness, yes. Over the premise that social justice efforts are needed, no, as per the part of the SOP I've quoted.

Of course. My point boils down to whether we provide fish (that we have caught), or a fishing pole.

 

[Paidiske]

That has nothing to do with the reality that there are unjust structures in our society.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That has nothing to do with the reality that there are unjust structures in our society.

It has to do with how we address those problems. Identifying and decrying unjust structures does nothing to change them. Happily, here in America, we have solutions for those problems. The aggrieved just have to take advantage of them.

I am forever excluded from employment that requires a college education, even though I am fully capable of success in many of those fields. This is unjust on it's face. However I accept that and have found success in other employment and investments. If society zigs, I zag. Obstacles such as social injustices can be overcome.

 

[Paidiske]

It has to do with how we address those problems. Identifying and decrying unjust structures does nothing to change them.

The first step in problem solving is identifying the problem. So yes, identifying unjust structures is a necessary first step to changing them.

And of course they can be changed. We have seen immense positive change of this kind just in my lifetime.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The first step in problem solving is identifying the problem. So yes, identifying unjust structures is a necessary first step to changing them.

And of course they can be changed. We have seen immense positive change of this kind just in my lifetime.

That fact seems to be lost on a large demographic here.

 

[Paidiske]

That fact seems to be lost on a large demographic here.

How do you mean?

I am thinking of things like the ending of apartheid, making sex discrimination illegal, international conventions against torture, and so on. These are matters of historical fact.