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Well, duhhhh...
Once again, well, duhhhhhhhh............. Nobody in their right mind is advocating unprovoked agression. All we are saying, stand up for yourself if you have to, and only if you have to, and yes if non-violent solution to problem, fantastic, but as in "Coward of the County" by Kenny Rogers near end of song, he says "Sometimes you have to fight when you're a man". My admittedly arrogant and un-abashed view than I don't feel a damn bit guilty feeling writing what I just wrote. I have never been in your shoes anymore than you have been in my shoes. Duhhhhhhh........... Duhhhhh.....Well, people keep writing as though the only non-violent approach is to be a doormat so I thought I'd reflect the other side of that coin. If non-violence equates to doormat, violence equates to psychopath.
The point of "turn the other cheek" and the other two case-studies that go with it is that they are non-optional instructions to find imaginative and effective non-violent solutions to problems. "I had no choice but to shoot him..." isn't allowed as an option by Jesus. If that seems hard - well, following Jesus is hard.
And no-one is suggesting being a doormat. Non-violence is to doormat as "self-defence" is to psychopath.Once again, well, duhhhhhhhh............. Nobody in their right mind is advocating unprovoked agression.
Do you follow Jesus or Kenny Rogers?All we are saying, stand up for yourself if you have to, and only if you have to, and yes if non-violent solution to problem, fantastic, but as in "Coward of the County" by Kenny Rogers near end of song, he says "Sometimes you have to fight when you're a man"
Jesus, but even if I didn't, I would come closer to following Kenny Rogers than you.And no-one is suggesting being a doormat. Non-violence is to doormat as "self-defence" is to psychopath.
Do you follow Jesus or Kenny Rogers?
Jesus, but even if I didn't, I would come closer to following Kenny Rogers than you.
Once again, was Jesus suggesting having the other cheek slapped off? I don't think so. As stated again, somebody attacking me or robbing me, raping my wife or daughter (or anyone else), some crackpot shooting into a crowd of people, I don't give a damn what some self-righteous pseudo-intellectual "pious" "Joan of Arc" type says, I will try (may no succeed, but will try) to help. Even from this wimpy wussy point of view, one might keep and unbeliever from being killed by more hostile unbeliever. Unabashedly standing by what I write, can't wait to see the snippy smug comeback on this one. I'm enjoying playing with ya.So when Jesus said to turn the other cheek... was that just a suggestion?
If you think this is play, then maybe you should take a long and hard look at your convictions.Once again, was Jesus suggesting having the other cheek slapped off? I don't think so. As stated again, somebody attacking me or robbing me, raping my wife or daughter (or anyone else), some crackpot shooting into a crowd of people, I don't give a damn what some self-righteous pseudo-intellectual "pious" "Joan of Arc" type says, I will try (may no succeed, but will try) to help. Even from this wimpy wussy point of view, one might keep and unbeliever from being killed by more hostile unbeliever. Unabashedly standing by what I write, can't wait to see the snippy smug comeback on this one. I'm enjoying playing with ya.
I am very comfortable with my convictions, thank you, your advice is not wanted nor needed, thank you.If you think this is play, then maybe you should take a long and hard look at your convictions.
Did Jesus not rebuke Peter for defending him with violence?
Also, Joan of Arc was hardly a pacifist.
All the more reason to challenge them.I am very comfortable with my convictions,
thank you, your advice is not wanted nor needed, thank you.
Once again, was Jesus suggesting having the other cheek slapped off? I don't think so.
Firstly, Jesus set the model. Giving ones life instead of ever taking. That's the only way the cycle of violence and death is ever broken.Once again, was Jesus suggesting having the other cheek slapped off?
I might need advice on things, but I sure ain't gonna ask you for it, have seen nothing yet from you that is beneficial to me. I can be just as smug and condescending and arrogant as you, and could do this for days straight, I'm too tired to give a diddly crap right now. Good night.All the more reason to challenge them.
No need to challenge them, once again, comfortable with. Maybe I'm challenging you, hotshot, to re-evaluate you values.
Not wanted - clearly.
Not needed - that's something you can't judge for yourself.
Well, as I have exhaustively said times before, I don't advocate starting any trouble with anyone for anything, only defend yourself or your loved ones if truly in danger. No, unlike some of these other posters on here, I'm not going to willingly bend over and spread 'em, figuratively or literally, without a struggle. That's my convictions, period. Whether you agree with me or not I frankly don't give a tinker's damn. Ok now, next snarky comment to counter my snarky comment (I'll read tomorrow evening, I'm too tired to care now).Firstly, Jesus set the model. Giving ones life instead of ever taking. That's the only way the cycle of violence and death is ever broken.
Now lets look at the passage:
But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; 40 and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; 41 and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
Love
Three examples of finding imaginative non-forceful (not just non-violent) ways of addressing abusive situations. They aren't simple commands to non-violence; they are stronger than that. In place of violence they demand we find imaginative ways that challenge the thinking behind the abuse. "Turn the other cheek" and allow him to hit you again - but as an equal instead of as an inferior. "Offer your cloak" and leave him shamed by leaving you naked. "Go the extra mile" and leave him demanding you stop.
Lets face it, the first line is nonnegotiable and clear: "do not resist an evildoer". Whatever your human heroes might say, Jesus is clear.
Who do you follow again?
Well, as I have exhaustively said times before, I don't advocate starting any trouble with anyone for anything, only defend yourself or your loved ones if truly in danger. No, unlike some of these other posters on here, I'm not going to willingly bend over and spread 'em, figuratively or literally, without a struggle. That's my convictions, period. Whether you agree with me or not I frankly don't give a tinker's damn. Ok now, next snarky comment to counter my snarky comment (I'll read tomorrow evening, I'm too tired to care now).
Firstly, Jesus set the model. Giving ones life instead of ever taking. That's the only way the cycle of violence and death is ever broken.
If a frightened citizen screams out for help, is loaning them a gun and a qualified shooter not satisfying this verse? Surely the verse does not suggest assisting evil doers.Now lets look at the passage:
But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; 40 and if anyone wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; 41 and if anyone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to everyone who begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you.
Love
Here we agree and where that is possible, it is a moral imperative. Where it isn't possible, a threat to life or great bodily harm, it is a moral imperative to resist. You wouldn't say to a woman about to be raped "just lay there and take it honey, it is the Christian thing to do", surely? The risk of potentially fatal STDs is too high, the affront too great, it is in a category Jesus was not addressing in the quoted Scripture & trying to apply that Scripture to that higher category of violence is dishonest at best and the excuse used by predators to justify predation at worst.Three examples of finding imaginative non-forceful (not just non-violent) ways of addressing abusive situations. They aren't simple commands to non-violence; they are stronger than that. In place of violence they demand we find imaginative ways that challenge the thinking behind the abuse. "Turn the other cheek" and allow him to hit you again - but as an equal instead of as an inferior. "Offer your cloak" and leave him shamed by leaving you naked. "Go the extra mile" and leave him demanding you stop.
No matter what micro factoids are snipped and taken out of context, the message of the Gospel is not "to be a good Christian you must pawn your personal responsibility for self righteousness".Lets face it, the first line is nonnegotiable and clear: "do not resist an evildoer". Whatever your human heroes might say, Jesus is clear.
Who do you follow again?
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