Is it common to...

[Johnnz]

Hi Moriah,

I'm not offended by any thing you have written, and I agree with a lot of what you say.

Behind my comments are real life experiences. I know what it is to spend time over some years helping people 're-programme', inch by inch. We have even had people come and live with us to witness a different lifestyle and values. I am no 'airbrush' Christian (or at least I try not to be).

At the centre of my life is my Christian understanding and life. I can easily acknowledge that good counselors can often provide better advice than many Christians do, because they really have thought through issues practically rather than use doctrinal formulas. But, I have a conceptual and experiential reality that belongs to my Christian faith.

I accept biblical teaching and therefore (and unlike so many Christians it seems) I have a very positive approach towards human sexuality, as well as a great deal of exposure to the horrors of its misuse. Thus I don't accept your view of sex, although I can recognise that is the only conceptual basis you have from your own bad experiences.

I also recognise spiritual reality. This relates to an understanding of the spiritual impact of any abuse, the effects of prayer and at times specific insights into past events or current darknesses. Plus, I know what Jesus does offer out of a relationship with Him.

Thus, our views overlap a great deal, but we frame them somewhat differently in some areas. I can accept your challenges. You are very honest, frank and realistic, values which I regard highly.

John
NZ

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Thanks John.

One thing, to pick a nit, Moriah offered in the previous post simply an example of rescripting based upon transmutation. It did not intend to imply anything about its own specific experience of sex or sexuality. That would be a most transcendent subject indeed, and one it has already been forbidden to discuss on the open board here at CF due to the overtones of the supernatural involved and others being uncomfortable with that. But archetypally it has touched all potential paradigms of sexuality in its various aspects. The darkest aspects of its sexuality comes not from the worst experiences had, but from the most wonderful.

Transmutation forms a most useful power to wield in one's life, and touches everything, not just sexuality. Through it, pain can be turned into pleasure, terror into desire, degradation into exaltation. It bes the first and most important power ever taught Moriah, and the most useful.

Doubtless by now you begin to develop a sense of what you deal with here, and that Moriah resides quite far beyond your reach. But we may continue to converse and learn from one another if you wish.

 

[BlessedMommy05]

I find that we often dont see the other's point of view only because we each have our own story and our own road to walk and be apart of, even when that walk is walking with the Lord.. Moriah, you are welcome.. I tend to agree with people whom can put into words that I cant.. And you definatly did that.. So keep it up..

Another thing, sex is often used for alot of good purposes including pro-creation to have children. But alot of us (including myself) only view sex to have a child.. Other wise I could live with out it honestly.. I dont care for it even tho I am a married woman who is trying honestly to please her husband in this area and it is NOT easy.. My preceptions of this stems from sexual abuse from my past and physical abuse..

Do I want to enjoy sex yeah some times, but often I do try and learn to walk this road even though its never easy and let God help me when it comes to the relations with my husband..

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I also recognise spiritual reality. This relates to an understanding of the spiritual impact of any abuse, the effects of prayer and at times specific insights into past events or current darknesses.

What do you mean by this. :o You do not know Moriah.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Moriah started out that way Laura, but then ... well ... things happened. To change that. Drastically.

It has no regret in that respect.

 

[Johnnz]

Hi Moriah,

I don't know very much about Moriah at all. I am interested in finding out though. If you don't mind tossing ideas around between us fire away.

From your comments it seems there may have been some issues with the forum. In a recovery section I can understand that doctrinal or conceptual debate may appear inappropriate. But in a more open section there will be all sorts of responses which make a sensible dialogue almost impossible. We can PM, but I reckon some here could actually find an exchange quite insightful in different ways.

So, up to you.

John
NZ

 

[Johnnz]

What do you mean by this. :o You do not know Moriah.

Our inner being is defiled by sexual abuse. Our human spirit can become crushed by undue harshness. It can withdraw from life and cease to be the inner source of vitality it is meant to be.

A woman can become influenced by the spirit of the abuser. This can lead to sexual proclivity, finding that she just 'attracts' sexually oriented men, and inner confusion. She may become inwardly held by dark forces that lock her into fear, suicidal thoughts, self degradation and hopelessness. These can exist at a deeper level than the purely psychological.

John
NZ

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Our inner being is defiled by sexual abuse. Our human spirit can become crushed by undue harshness. It can withdraw from life and cease to be the inner source of vitality it is meant to be.

Defiled. Yes. That bes what They likes. They likes it defiled. They feeds it lahati so it will like to be defiled too, and this makes it defiled more. As for undue harshness? That alone, even without molestation, would have been enough to twist things into perversity in its truest sense (aside from the strictly sexual sense most read into that word) but in tandem WITH it? In Moriah's case, coming in tandem with it, the undue harshness elsewhere made the experience of being molested the most self-empowering experience Moriah remembers from its childhood -- and no it does not say that merely for "effect".

A woman can become influenced by the spirit of the abuser.

Back in 1994 Moriah went to a private clinic for approximately 8 weeks. Its mission: to discover why it had the (transhuman, supernatural) sexual orientation it has, and to achieve some form of integration between its two warring primaries, or at the very least, some method of truce between them for some peace. Having its life overturned and upheaved by their cycle every 18-24 months had made the previous decade unbearable.

During the process of memory retrievals, pattern tracings and psychological deconstruction, it discovered, among many other things, a curious phenomenon -- namely, that some of the "window dressings" (so to speak) in its personal perception of Satan had been derived from the main perpetrator of its molestation between the ages of 6 and 9. Just little things -- little mannerisms, vocal timbre, that curious blend of violation and protection, etc.

As a side note. At first deconstruction caused tremendous distress. It felt it would never again have a narrative to grasp. It felt like everything mysterious and wonderful had been sucked out of its world and its life had been rendered as dull, banal and meaningless as that of the dirty humans surrounding it on this planet. But in the end, the transcendent triumphed over the banal, as it must and always will. Moriah discovered that while deconstruction could provide answers to the "what" and the "how", it could not even begin to touch the "why" -- and when it realized that, everything it had ever known came flooding back in with even greater force, for now, ironically, far from breaking narrative, the deconstruction itself furnished proof positive of its veracity. Here it found more than just a vague hunch that Lucifer/Satan and its archetypal destiny had guided the entirety of its life from a very early age; here it found absolute proof thereof spelled out in no uncertain terms that its experiences had been carefully selected, through all these seemingly jackal-random bombardments of assault upon its consciousness, to bring it to precisely where it stood in this world and to the position it knew it would one day occupy, albeit unseen and unheralded, in the "grand scheme" of things.

This can lead to sexual proclivity, finding that she just 'attracts' sexually oriented men, and inner confusion.

Yeah, just "attracting" that type of attention at the age of 7, not merely from active perpetrators but from all variety of men anywhere from teenagers to 30-somethings, can be confusing all right. Particularly when you bes 6 or 7 or 8 and have no clue WHAT "that kind" of attention actually means other than making you feel 'validated' somehow against all the negative attention, input and poison you keep having shoved on you elsewhere from peers, parents, and other 'authority' figures alike....

She may become inwardly held by dark forces that lock her into fear, suicidal thoughts, self degradation and hopelessness. These can exist at a deeper level than the purely psychological.

Well yeah ... They can lock you into all sorts, way past what you state here... but you came late to the party John, everyone on CF already knows Moriah bes inhabited. But again, it has incurred severe pain and harassment from CF staff for mentioning this in the Recovery section and they have demanded it not do so. Them humans makes it feel so unduly unwelcome here that for a very long time it would not post in recovery section at all. Even now they rip its posts out as soon as they find them apparently because it bes so great a danger to everyone else in this section -- heaven forbid they should think beyond bandaid-and-whitewash pseudo-solutions that in the long run will only leave them worse off and more miserable, but there you havesy. You cannot "recover" when people won't be willing to let you discuss precisely what bes anything you need "recovering" from. Oh well, as long as it bes Moriah nobody has to care. Moriah bes lost forever, a damned soul from the pits of Hell, nobody cares what becomes of some demon-infested loser. Not even allowed to tell the truth about the heinous filthy self-serving attitudes of them humans because they will just lie and pass judgments claiming something worse about Moriah but what bes not true, when it tells the truth about them. Them humans talk that way about Satan too. They talk that way about Moriah. Then they have the consummate gall to try to tell it these two bes not one and the same. Moriah bes not whats in confusion here, but them humans.

 

[over the rainbow]

x

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I judged you in the beginning because I was scared. I'm sorry.

Think not upon it again. Moriah understood why you did, and forgave you from the start.

 

[over the rainbow]

x

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

This crap bes going on long, long, long before you got here, Lifewanderer. Its post bes not directed at you specifically or individually.

 

[James 1:27]

Thanks for answering everyone.

After hating myself and feeling like a evil person for most of my youth and adult life I've come to the conclusion that there simply was a series of bad things I experienced as a child that most likely have had a very negative impact on me. And I am tired of hating myself, I am tired of all the guilt and shame and I refuse to take it anymore, cause I really can't help being who I am. I wish I could be like everyone else, to be a normal, well functioning member of society, but something inside of me is destroyed and I don't know how to fix it. There is really no barriers in my mind when it comes to sexuality. I think I am able to feel aroused by anything, and I have no clear sexual identity. I've put several kinds of labels on myself over the years, but I can see that none of it make any sense. I've been in relationships with women and been capable of having sex, but honestly I think that I would feel about the same if I had sex with another man and I don't think men are pretty at all. The body of women is pretty, but more pretty like a statue then pretty like something attractive. I'm just terribly confused by all of it and I can't see any logic in it, other then what may have caused it all to become like it is.

The worst thing though is to feel so alone with all of it and to hate myself so deeply because of it. I feel pretty sure that if I explained all I've been trough then almost everyone would show understanding, it is not like I am a criminal or anything, but I also know that they all would avoid me like I have the plague or something because my mind is so utterly twisted and because most people would get defense-mechanisms triggered by me crossing all borders of what is considered a taboo while explaining all of it. So I have mostly given up the hope of ever getting a normal life. I would like to work at a florist and to be around people that don't stress and are friendly, and I would like to get a wife, but I got too much anxiety to work, and I don't want to a women to have someone like me. Even if I found someone I liked and that could like me, then I know that the chances are small for anyone to deal with all my problems, and I can't handle it myself to live in secrecy about it and pretend that I am just like everyone else. So I will just continue to live like I've had, like some kind of monster hiding in a cave, praying to become clean, but never seeing the end of my own polluted mind.

I don't have to tell you how the sexual abuses perpetrated on you have affected you, your sexuality and your self-image. These are wounds so deep spiritually and emotionally. Also they are tangled with guilt and isolation. It is sometimes difficult to get a clear picture of what is going on inside of us because we're looking through all of this. Well God is not the author of confusion and his desire is for you to experience healing and wholeness so you can be in full relationship with him. I have found help with a good solid Christian counselor. It is work on my part but totally guided by the Holy Spirit. You may want to consider this as part of your healing. It is not instantaneous healing, it is the "over time" kind of healing. As everything else is in life, it is a process. And hopefully a process where you will discover who you are in Christ...a child of God...beloved, sought after, blessed. That is a good place to be. There is hope, my friend, and JESUS is his name.

 

[Bellicus]

One of my problems is that I feel that I simply didn't experience enough traumatic things to justify how messed up I feel inside. I am thinking that maybe I should just "get over it". Maybe I am just lazy that my family seem to think about me, since I can't get any work and don't want to go outside the door. Maybe my real problem is with self-pity and that I am simply whining, and that I should just stop whining and do something useful instead. That I should accept that I am just evil and sinful (much more then everyone else) and that even if I feel like everything is a mess, this is just what I deserve. So I just end up in a kind of vacuum of emotions where I don't really know what to do. Where I feel terrible, and I feel terrible for feeling terrible and terrible for that again etc.

I don't even know what God is thinking about me. I don't know what it is that He wants me to do.

 

[Johnnz]

Having such a negative view of yourself and God's attitude towards you won't get you very motivated.Do you have any really positive Christian input?

John
NZ

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

One of my problems is that I feel that I simply didn't experience enough traumatic things to justify how messed up I feel inside.

Moriah goes through that a lot, too. Especially when it hears stories of people who seem to have suffered far worse and don't seem to be nearly as messed up. Only thing it can think to say would be that we all bes different and none of us get to choose how we get born, whether we get born susceptible to this disease or that one, or weaker physically than others or smarter or dumber or whatever. None of us get to pick our inborn toolkit for dealing with stuff nor our parents, our peers, our surroundings, whether they encourage strength or feed on our weaknesses or even call strengths weaknesses and cause shame over them crippling us further. We get no choice about that. We do what we can to survive with what we get handed, and that shapes us into what we become, and all abuser-guilt/shame b/s talk aside, no, we really don't get a choice about any of it.

I am thinking that maybe I should just "get over it".

Abuser talk. That's how the abuser wants you to see yourself, to invalidate your own experiences in order to protect themselves and not have to be accountable for what they did to you. It's all your fault, don't be such a wuss, man up (or 'put on your big girl pants' for females) and 'get over it' (i.e. pretend convincingly that it never happened -- impossible to ever do permanently, so believing you must just spirals down).

Maybe my real problem is with self-pity and that I am simply whining, and that I should just stop whining and do something useful instead.

More abuser talk, and unfortunately engraved and ingrained into society as "normal" and "the way things 'really' are" (which would be a lie because no, things bes NOT really like that, only that abusers TALK like that and LABEL things like that in order to program you to do their dirty work for them by invalidating yourself and your experiences so they don't have to fear ever being held accountable for what they did to you).

That I should accept that I am just evil and sinful (much more then everyone else) and that even if I feel like everything is a mess, this is just what I deserve.

More abuser programming.
Learn to detect it. Learn to reject it. And fight it, always fight it, outwardly where you see it being INJECTED into the norm of how "society" thinks, how people raise their kids to think, how peers tell one another to think, and what gets pounded into people's minds and hearts from the pulpit, especially. Abuser programming, abuser talk = TOXIC, TOXIC, TOXIC. It pretends to be the cure when it really bes the poison and the disease itself.

So I just end up in a kind of vacuum of emotions where I don't really know what to do. Where I feel terrible, and I feel terrible for feeling terrible and terrible for that again etc.

This spiral, designed to keep you miserable and withdrawing deeper into your misery so you don't threaten the status quo of abuse, would be precisely what the abusers intend by abuser-talk and abuser-programming. The fact that so much of abuser-talk and abuser-programming has been burned into people in general as "normal" does not help. We must begin to discern and openly, viscerally, blatantly fight abuser lies where they show up pretending to be "the way things really are". Because they aren't. They are just what bullies and abusers claim so that they can sell their biggest lie of all -- that if you got hurt it's all your fault somehow. You "let" it happen. You "let" yourself feel. They didn't do anything, you did it to yourself somehow. It's all b/s though. They lie. Don't listen.

I don't even know what God is thinking about me. I don't know what it is that He wants me to do.

That makes two of us. Moriah frankly does not want to know. All it can imagine would be things condemnatory and what he "wants" it to do would be impossible, i.e. to just magically snap its fingers and stop being what it bes, stop thinking and feeling what it does, and it has no control over that, so he continues to condemn it for that.

 

[Johnnz]

Hi Moriah,

A couple of questions. You use a word 'bes' quite often. What does that mean?

You write at times almost as a third person. Is that a style you adopt, or does it reflect some other reality?

John
NZ

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

A couple of questions. You use a word 'bes' quite often. What does that mean?

Bes = any conjugation of the verb "to be"; pronounced like "beez" or "bees"

You write at times almost as a third person. Is that a style you adopt, or does it reflect some other reality?

A little of both actually. Try not to read too much into it. Currently working on breaking the habit since it seems to cause more difficulty than it bes worth but finding it difficult at times. At times when Moriah feels most oppressed and violated it becomes impossible to break out of it. The First Person Singular tends to get reserved for the First Person, what Moriah calls Vox Luciferi or the voice of its inner light. Moriah's archetypal identification also will use "I". For bridging the gaps it sometimes uses "i", trying to break the "it" habit, as "it" should really have its own distinctive place and it gets misunderstood too easily and too frequently.

But as we said, try not to read too much into it.
Human language = cumbersome. Much easier to communicate in energy signatures and chemical trails.

 

[James 1:27]

One of my problems is that I feel that I simply didn't experience enough traumatic things to justify how messed up I feel inside. I am thinking that maybe I should just "get over it". Maybe I am just lazy that my family seem to think about me, since I can't get any work and don't want to go outside the door. Maybe my real problem is with self-pity and that I am simply whining, and that I should just stop whining and do something useful instead. That I should accept that I am just evil and sinful (much more then everyone else) and that even if I feel like everything is a mess, this is just what I deserve. So I just end up in a kind of vacuum of emotions where I don't really know what to do. Where I feel terrible, and I feel terrible for feeling terrible and terrible for that again etc.

I don't even know what God is thinking about me. I don't know what it is that He wants me to do.

Feelings are very powerful and to just "stop whining" and "just get over it" is not authentic. In fact it is burying your emotions; in that there is very little healing. Bringing things out, sifting through emotions, events, pain, acknowleging your own sin and working through it, laying it at the cross: this is where healing is because it leads you to Jesus.

 

[Johnnz]

Hi,

You sometimes refer to other spiritual entities. Are you using them as a kind of metaphor or actual spiritual beings of some kind?

John
NZ