Is it better to never have been born then to live with the possibility of going to hell?

[Rajni]

The only way into Hell is to reject God's Holy Spirit outright.
All other Sins are forgiven if you ask.

Yes, this is just one of many examples of the diverse views on what lands a person in hell.

 

[Noxot]

what use is it for my sin to be forgiven if my own nature shall keep producing the same evils that came out of it to make me sin in the first place? to hell with my sick nature, it needs to burn up and die forever. and if the smoke of my torment ascends forever then I guess I will be with God after all.

 

[Adstar]

what use is it for my sin to be forgiven if my own nature shall keep producing the same evils that came out of it to make me sin in the first place? to hell with my sick nature, it needs to burn up and die forever. and if the smoke of my torment ascends forever then I guess I will be with God after all.

On the day of the Reasurection We who believe Jesus will be transformed into the sinless perfect beings we desire to be.. So it is good to accept the forgiveness of God so as to be one of the humans who shall be Redeemed and transformed on the day of our reasurection... Life in this world is short.. Eternal life in Gods perfect existence is for ever and ever...

 

[Aseyesee]

He requires us to Believe Him.. And believe His Atonement covers us for the times we fail to be the loving person we should be.. If we acknowledge all His ways as good and truth and trust 100% in the Atonement He secured for our salvation.. We can acknowledge our failure to live up to His perfect will and thank Him with joy for His Work on the cross that wins for us our salvation..

People get all worked up and worried about their performance in doing Gods will. And if they are continuously falling short ( And Everyone Does fall short ) they worry about their salvation being lost.. This sometimes leads them to try to interpret Gods Message in a way to make it say something it does not so that they can better perform the compromised cut down version of Gods word..

But this is a terrible mistake.. firstly our salvation is not based on how good we are.. How well we perform up to His standards.. His standards are there to make it clear to us that we are always falling short of living up to His standards and thus that sets us up to embrace the Atonement He has secured for our salvation.. Secondly cutting and manipulating the teachings of God to make them more do-able is also terrible thing to do.. Both actions are denying Gods will..

So people should totally embrace and accept the ultra high standards of Jesus as being true and good without any compromise. And people should have 100% confidence in the gift of salvation Jesus secured for us on the cross.. That's where safety is for us..Eternal security

For some this is the case (which is more in tune with a slow climb up babel), for me the truth before all things were is the truth that is.

Religion is a way whose path is in the sea, or like wine, when it is red, and moves itself in the glass; a serpent upon a rock.

Where it comes from ...

Our Father which art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
as it is in heaven.

How it comes in us ...

Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors ...

And lead us not into temptation ...

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

When God speaks a process follows (whose same end is as the beginning), that first becomes a snare, unless you are him.

 

[Tolworth John]

what use is it for my sin to be forgiven if my own nature shall keep producing the same evils that came out of it to make me sin in the first place?

It is only the saved Christian who is concerned about his/her sinful thoughts and actions.

Talk to nonchristian friends about the evils your nature produces and they'll wonder what you are talking about.

Hang on in there, sins forgiven are sins that no longer count against you.

 

[hedrick]

There have been a number of explanations in these postings. But none that seem to provide any answer to the OP. If typical guesses are right, 90% of the population would have been a lot better off not to have been conceived. It doesn't matter if in some sense it's their fault or they are creating the bad situation. It's still the case that they're going to be in torment eternally. I don't think much else can be said without going to Controversial Theology.

 

[Hieronymus]

Hell is spelled out clearly in the Bible, even old church fathers taught hell, it's a legit biblical doctrine.

Revelation

What makes you think i don't believe hell exists?

 

[Rajni]

If typical guesses are right, 90% of the population would have been a lot better off not to have been conceived. It doesn't matter if in some sense it's their fault or they are creating the bad situation. It's still the case that they're going to be in torment eternally. I don't think much else can be said without going to Controversial Theology.

I'm convinced that the very concept of hell is controversial all by itself. Any mention of it at all is best suited for the Controversial Theology section, imo.

 

[Quasiblogo]

God in so many words guided Abraham, Sara, Lot, er al to basically turn their backs on and walk away from hell on earth (Sidon and Gomorrah), after serving in those cities as God commanded. Our job is to inquire of God concerning who is the remnant and how we can reach them--and to turn our backs on the tide that leads to damnation. We don't know who belongs to the remnant among the unrepentant, therefore we need a big heart toward all.

 

[Aseyesee]

There have been a number of explanations in these postings. But none that seem to provide any answer to the OP. If typical guesses are right, 90% of the population would have been a lot better off not to have been conceived. It doesn't matter if in some sense it's their fault or they are creating the bad situation. It's still the case that they're going to be in torment eternally. I don't think much else can be said without going to Controversial Theology.

It's odd indeed that it would be controversial for God to have no shadow of turning in him, from the love that he is.

 

[Rajni]

It's odd indeed that it would controversial for God to have no shadow of turning in him, from the love that he is.

True. Endless conscious torment isn't considered controversial, but God's infinite love effectively preventing such a thing from happening to even a single soul is considered such. One of life's deep mysteries, I guess. •‿•

-

 

[toLiJC]

I can't help but think about the fact that the majority of people who have ever lived (and I'm not talking 51% to 49%, the margin is MUCH wider) have gone to or are going to hell. Hell is eternal torment that one cannot escape.

So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?

We've all heard the saying "life isn't fair." God even states in the book of Exodus "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and show compassion to whom I show compassion." Now of course he's an all perfect God but even when I try to think "it all balances out" it appears God shows favoritism.

I've been reading the books of Samuel and 2 Samuel the last few days and King David is a genocidal maniac who literally raids & plunders cities of people killing all the men, women, and children so they don't squeal on him.

1 Samuel 27:8-9

On top of all this King David has his camp raided and it appears like an opportunity for him to learn a lesson, but not only does he or his men not lose their property or their families lives, they GAIN possessions.

1 Samuel 30:18-20

I say this to say when we're born we can't decide or know who we're going to be born as, we might be born in 2017 with video games and working air conditioning. Or we could be born as one of the Geshurites that David slaughtered with no remorse thousands of years ago. We could be born mentally retarded or a super genius, who knows.

To add to all this, all this constant debate amongst Christians about how is one saved. There's the classic works vs. faith debate but there's also the guys who believe the law isn't dead, or you have to get baptized. Heck the Calvinist's believe we're all predestined to a fate. So even among Christians how many are going to heaven?

So is it better to have never been born then to live with the high possibility of going to hell forever?

the Lord Himself tells it like it is:

Mark 14:21 (NHEB) "woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had not been born."

the true God knows everything that may happen trying to prevent (the) bad things (that could happen), while the evil/wicked one seeks to cause harm/evil also acting like the chess players/grandmasters (i.e. considering all possible moves forward), but finding ourselves in this situation (of struggle between the true God and the evil/wicked one) we, humans, have to be careful not to cause harm/evil to our neighbor/cohabitant, because sin in its essence is causation/infliction of harm/evil to/on the neighbor/cohabitant (Romans 2:1-6, Romans 13:8-10)

Blessings

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

Jesus was careful with His answers that The Father prefers that all are saved.
It's not a numbers or odds game.

I agree, that being said the fact still remains that the majority will be lost. So would you rather not be born then to be born, live life and go to hell forever?

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

How do you know this?

I don't know and that's precisely why I'm asking the question. So what do you think?

You have a problem as God said that David is a man after his own heart.
David acted to defend the people God had chosen, he used the common methods of war of his time. We may not like what he did, but have you or I a zeal for God as great as David's?

What problem do I have? I realize David was a man after his own heart but David brought so much pain and misery upon people and did so much evil but it felt like he was never punished for it because he was God's chosen. Obviously, I don't have a zeal for God like David but does that negate the fact he's a genocidal fiend?

There is no debate about how to get saved. The bible is crystal clear that we are saved by faith in Jesus's death and resurrection.

There is a debate about how to get saved, faith vs works is just one example of the debates still taking place and have been taking place for thousands of years. Some say faith alone some say faith without works is dead.

 

[SkyWriting]

I agree, that being said the fact still remains that the majority will be lost. So would you rather not be born then to be born, live life and go to hell forever?

No. The potential in infinite on the plus side.
Hell is just getting what one wants. Let's call it a selfish win.
On the plus side you could save thousands. How many others could
you turn away from heaven? Not likely more than a handful.
Ged ensures that the system is rigged for you to win by sending His
Holy Spirit to every person.

I think you are misinterpreting the numbers of people who
avoid the narrow path.

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

what use is it for my sin to be forgiven if my own nature shall keep producing the same evils that came out of it to make me sin in the first place? to hell with my sick nature, it needs to burn up and die forever. and if the smoke of my torment ascends forever then I guess I will be with God after all.

You say that now. It's easy to make bold statements like that when you're feeling no pain. Now put your hand over a hot flame and do repeat the same statements. Something tells me if you did you would not be able keep your hand there let alone make the same statement. Now imagine your entire body is in the most agonizing burning fire, with the smell of burning corpses all around, and you NEVER get sleep but long for it, and the screams and wails of other people is constantly in your ears. Could you make the same statement then?

 

[disciple1]

I can't help but think about the fact that the majority of people who have ever lived (and I'm not talking 51% to 49%, the margin is MUCH wider) have gone to or are going to hell. Hell is eternal torment that one cannot escape.

So how is it not better to have never lived at all then to live?

We've all heard the saying "life isn't fair." God even states in the book of Exodus "I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and show compassion to whom I show compassion." Now of course he's an all perfect God but even when I try to think "it all balances out" it appears God shows favoritism.

I've been reading the books of Samuel and 2 Samuel the last few days and King David is a genocidal maniac who literally raids & plunders cities of people killing all the men, women, and children so they don't squeal on him.

1 Samuel 27:8-9


On top of all this King David has his camp raided and it appears like an opportunity for him to learn a lesson, but not only does he or his men not lose their property or their families lives, they GAIN possessions.

1 Samuel 30:18-20


I say this to say when we're born we can't decide or know who we're going to be born as, we might be born in 2017 with video games and working air conditioning. Or we could be born as one of the Geshurites that David slaughtered with no remorse thousands of years ago. We could be born mentally retarded or a super genius, who knows.

To add to all this, all this constant debate amongst Christians about how is one saved. There's the classic works vs. faith debate but there's also the guys who believe the law isn't dead, or you have to get baptized. Heck the Calvinist's believe we're all predestined to a fate. So even among Christians how many are going to heaven?

So is it better to have never been born then to live with the high possibility of going to hell forever?

James chapter 4
11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[d] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

What makes you think i don't believe hell exists?

You come off as a person who is a annihilationist but that was my mistake. So what do you believe? If you don't believe hell is eternal how do fit that with the bible which is clear on the issue?

 

[Tolworth John]

it felt like he was never punished for it because he was God's chosen

What does 'feelings' have to do with facts!
God chose David to be the King of Israel, and guided him via prophets. There is no indication that God disaproved of his actions in defending Israel. There are plenty of instances when God did disaprove of Davids actions and made it very clear to David.
So whose judgement about David is likely to be correct, yours or Gods?
Remember David was fighting those who opposed God and God's chosen people, they were by definision 'evil'.

As for a debate about how we are saved. The bible says we are saved by faith, not by works. eph 2 v 9.

 

[Polar Bear Quest]

God in so many words guided Abraham, Sara, Lot, er al to basically turn their backs on and walk away from hell on earth (Sidon and Gomorrah), after serving in those cities as God commanded. Our job is to inquire of God concerning who is the remnant and how we can reach them--and to turn our backs on the tide that leads to damnation. We don't know who belongs to the remnant among the unrepentant, therefore we need a big heart toward all.

So you believe in predestination? And those tides of people who aren't saved, do you think it's better that they were never born rather to live life then die and go to hell?