Is it a choice?

[SughaNSpice]

This has been proposed more than once by some of the anti-gay groups. Unfortunately (for them), they were unable to find any evidence that this was true. Unfortunately, after 40 years, the ex-gay groups have also been unable to show more than a small minority of gays (even those they attempt to "cure") can change their orientation. In fact, the author of one of the studies, and both the author and the study is cited by ex-gay groups, claims that only 3% of all people are capable of changing their sexual orientation.

If my memory of some of the evidence posted around here about that study is accurate then that study failed its peer review and has been shown to be so much garbage. Something about a follow up study of the men who claimed to have changed sexual orientation, all of them were employed by ex-gay groups and when contacted after they left their jobs they admitted they were lying about changing because the ex-gay groups paying them were demanding they say that

 

[SughaNSpice]

"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned." (Romans 5:12). Everyone who is born in this world were born with "the freewill to sin" (bound to slave) and each sinners can take their sins as far as they want. Slave to sin gives each sinner that freedom. Augustine said, “Free will without grace has the power to do nothing but sin. Free will without grace has the power to do nothing but sin.” A sinner can choose his category (i.e. gay, lie, kill, all sins are equal in the eyes of God) but a sinner can’t choose anything other than sin.

It is always terribly sad when people claiming to be Christian have to stoop to comparing minorities to criminals

 

[wanderingone]

I really don't know,,,it's just my opinion....mmm, what i really mean by the environment is the people around an individual...i think maybe that the opinions of the people around could somewhat create a confusion into someone else's mind when they're teasing him a gay just because his actions are more of womanly than manly...whew...

But.. my cousin is a "manly man" seriously, or didn't you know that "effeminate" doesn't = gay and gay doesn't = effeminate. And what does that mean for the lesbians? They were accused of being more "manly" so they decided they must be gay? Well shoot then I must be the one who is gay, not my daughter, because she's the prissy make up wearing clothes horse - I'm the one who doesn't currently own a dress, and I'm the one straight people are always speculating must be gay because I own 3 pair of shoes and what kind of "real" woman would live in sneakers and not own a torturous pair of heels?

As for the "weak" father notion added to your theories later on.... umm.. nope... my uncle was there, a farmer, a construction worker, he build the house that all my cousins grew up in, always on hand to show the boy all the manly things... and they were always close, my uncle stood up for his son at his wedding...

I guess for my daughter it would be me not being a good mom making her gay LOL, but then why would that mean the other daughter was straight.. and they all get along with dad as well... perfectly normal relationships all around.

Heck if bad parenting caused people to be gay there would be a lot more gay people in the world.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Is being gay a choice?
I dont think it is. I never made that choice. Did you? The thought of being with another woman sexually...well to be honest is gives me the heebie jeebies. I dont think there is anything on this earth that could make me be with a woman minus violence or threats. I suppose this i why i have always believed that gay people are born that way. And if gay people are born gay, ( are you following the logic here) then this must be the way God wanted them right? So if God wanted gay people to be gay, why would he make it a "sin" to be the way he made them?

Why would he do that?

One point to... point out. Just because you do not remember making a choice does not mean you didn't. If this applies to homosexuality is up for everyone else to debate.

 

[Criada]

I actively chose to 'be' heterosexual... to marry, have children etc.
But it made no difference whatsoever to my 'natural' feelings. That is not a choice... what you choose to do is.

 

[gennypearl]

But.. my cousin is a "manly man" seriously, or didn't you know that "effeminate" doesn't = gay and gay doesn't = effeminate. And what does that mean for the lesbians? They were accused of being more "manly" so they decided they must be gay? Well shoot then I must be the one who is gay, not my daughter, because she's the prissy make up wearing clothes horse - I'm the one who doesn't currently own a dress, and I'm the one straight people are always speculating must be gay because I own 3 pair of shoes and what kind of "real" woman would live in sneakers and not own a torturous pair of heels?

As for the "weak" father notion added to your theories later on.... umm.. nope... my uncle was there, a farmer, a construction worker, he build the house that all my cousins grew up in, always on hand to show the boy all the manly things... and they were always close, my uncle stood up for his son at his wedding...

I guess for my daughter it would be me not being a good mom making her gay LOL, but then why would that mean the other daughter was straight.. and they all get along with dad as well... perfectly normal relationships all around.

Heck if bad parenting caused people to be gay there would be a lot more gay people in the world.

maybe my opinion doesn't really apply in all situations.....it's just what i have observed from my younger brother...

 

[gennypearl]

You might want to look at your assumptions and stereotypes about gays.
I know a few gay men and they are all hyper masculine

I don’t get the notion that being gay means someone is “confused”

just an assumption, doesn't really apply to all....

 

[Phinehas2]

I actively chose to 'be' heterosexual... to marry, have children etc.
But it made no difference whatsoever to my 'natural' feelings. That is not a choice... what you choose to do is.

This is correct, if this point was appreciated much of the endless debate would be redundant.

 

[Andreusz]

From a secular point of view, it makes no difference whether it's a choice or not. The American Declaration of Independence refers to the right to "the pursuit of happiness", and if living a homosexual lifestyle (whatever that means) makes you happy, then you have a right to live that way. It is only from a religious viewpoint that the question becomes important.

 

[Phinehas2]

From a secular point of view, it makes no difference whether it's a choice or not. The American Declaration of Independence refers to the right to "the pursuit of happiness", and if living a homosexual lifestyle (whatever that means) makes you happy, then you have a right to live that way. It is only from a religious viewpoint that the question becomes important.

But that’s not a secular viewpoint though. As secular viewpoint would not allow any and everything that some thought as giving happiness. It would decide what was harmful and beneficial. All you have done is put a case for one particular lifestyle which some find happiness.
As to choice, everyone in control of their faculties has a choice in what they do.

 

[Andreusz]

But that’s not a secular viewpoint though. As secular viewpoint would not allow any and everything that some thought as giving happiness. It would decide what was harmful and beneficial. All you have done is put a case for one particular lifestyle which some find happiness.

Well, obviously happiness cannot be pursued at the expense of others.

As to choice, everyone in control of their faculties has a choice in what they do.

True. But not exactly relevant to the point I was making.

 

[Psudopod]

I actively chose to 'be' heterosexual... to marry, have children etc.
But it made no difference whatsoever to my 'natural' feelings. That is not a choice... what you choose to do is.
This is correct, if this point was appreciated much of the endless debate would be redundant.

To be heterosexual, you are solely attracted to members of the opposite sex. This isn’t a choice for most people homosexual or heterosexual, though there are people who can change their orientation.

But even if every one of us could alter our orientation and choose who we were attracted to, why should we? What harm is there in having these feelings, and acting on them (provided we only act on them with conscenting adults?) What does our preference for gender, race, hair colour or dress code matter provided we act honourably?