Is homosexuality a sin? If so, why?

[TheBellman]

Removed after staff edit.

 

[none the wiser]

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them" (Lev. 20:13).

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c040.html

There's a pretty good site...Bible verses and everything.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Romans 1:26,27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

EDIT: Yeah my point is there's nothing about homosexuality itself being a sin. The catholic church calls for homosexuals to be celibate.

 

[Steezie]

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them" (Lev. 20:13).

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c040.html

There's a pretty good site...Bible verses and everything.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Romans 1:26,27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

You seemed to have missed the OP's point.

He said asked if homosexuality ITSELF is a sin, being attracted to a member of the same gender. Your quote deals with the physical act of a male being with a male (Which interestingly enough doesnt condemn two women being together).

 

[TheBellman]

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them" (Lev. 20:13).

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c040.html

There's a pretty good site...Bible verses and everything.

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Romans 1:26,27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

A good example of a response which completely misses the point of the OP and does not even remotely answer either of the questions posed in it.

 

[none the wiser]

That's why I edited it

 

[Chalnoth]

By the way, I'd like to add that homosexuality has been conclusively linked to biology. For example, third sons of the same mother are many times more likely to be homosexual than first sons. As another example, heterosexual females tend to have index and ring finger lengths that are approximately equal, while homosexual females tend to have index finger lengths that are shorter than the ring finger. This seems to indicate that homosexuality is typically a result of conditions in the womb before birth.

 

[Steezie]

Still, all those quotes condemn the ACT, not the thought

And only the Romans quote even approaches condemning female on female sex.

Romans 1:26,27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1st Bold- That could mean a good number of things, it does not go into detail as to what natural and un-natural are.

2nd Bold- That doesnt say any actual ACT took place. Lust is a very specific term and doesnt condemn feelings of love or non-sexual attraction.

3rd Bold- Again, it doesnt define what indecent acts are. That could be anything from mooning to sex.

 

[Steezie]

By the way, I'd like to add that homosexuality has been conclusively linked to biology. For example, third sons of the same mother are many times more likely to be homosexual than first sons. As another example, heterosexual females tend to have index and ring finger lengths that are approximately equal, while homosexual females tend to have index finger lengths that are shorter than the ring finger. This seems to indicate that homosexuality is typically a result of conditions in the womb before birth.

Also, homosexuality has been observed in over 400 species of animals to date. It crosses ALL species barriers and has been observed in mammals, reptiles, fish, birds, and even insects ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior )

As members of the animal kingdom, it makes sense that we would be subjected to the same biological laws that bind the other animals

 

[none the wiser]

By the way, I'd like to add that homosexuality has been conclusively linked to biology. For example, third sons of the same mother are many times more likely to be homosexual than first sons. As another example, heterosexual females tend to have index and ring finger lengths that are approximately equal, while homosexual females tend to have index finger lengths that are shorter than the ring finger. This seems to indicate that homosexuality is typically a result of conditions in the womb before birth.

Also, homosexual male brains resemble straight female brains more than straight male brains. I heard also about the third son, and heard in addition that the chance increases significantly with the number of sons. I think most scientists think it has something to do with exposure to hormones before birth, in the first trimester, IIRC.

 

[none the wiser]

Still, all those quotes condemn the ACT, not the thought

I'm aware I think it's been posted on many a thread there's nothing condemning homosexual feelings in the Bible. After all, there's a recovery section on CF about it.

Ask basically any Christian, and I guarantee they'll tell you the same thing. "Hate the sin, love the sinner." Most do think that it has to do with conditioning, rather than brain chemistry. That homosexuals are made, not born, even though all evidence points to the contrary.

 

[Steezie]

I'm aware I think it's been posted on many a thread there's nothing condemning homosexual feelings in the Bible. After all, there's a recovery section on CF about it.

Ask basically any Christian, and I guarantee they'll tell you the same thing. "Hate the sin, love the sinner." Most do think that it has to do with conditioning, rather than brain chemistry. That homosexuals are made, not born, even though all evidence points to the contrary.

Which I have to say makes me very upset.

I think the "hate the sin, love the sinner" is just a way for people not to appear bigoted. Sin is a part of us and who we are drives what we do. So if you hate the sinful things a person does, you are hating a part of that person.

 

[chilehed]

...Is homosexuality a sin? Note that the question asks about homosexuality - the condition of being attracted to members of the same sex - not about homosexual acts. If it is, can you support it biblically?

We're talking about the virtue of chastity: the successful integration of sexuality within ourselves: the inner unity of our bodily and spiritual beings. Sexuality becomes fully human only when it is integrated into the the relationships we have with another person. Christianity holds that we are more than animated flesh, and that sex is more than just about body parts and pleasure. We are a body/soul unity, and when God created Man in His own image as male and female He made put Maleness and Femaleness into our souls as well as our bodies. To join in the marital act is to most deeply fulfill our vocations as images of the invisible God. It is the act through which we experience our most intimate spiritual union with another person; by it our souls are joined together and we are blessed to participate in God's generation of life.

Homosexual acts, being inherently closed to the generation of life and to the successful integration of Male and Female into the whole Man, are contrary to our nature and do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complimentarity. Because the order of our nature is to find this union as a permanent state between Male and Female, any sexual act not between Male and Female and within marriage is intrinsically disordered and deeply harmful to ourselves. This is why Christianity holds homosexual acts to be gravely sinful, as well as heterosexual acts outside of the bond of marriage.

Disordered sexual impulses are a trial, and everyone I know has them, homosexual and heterosexual alike. They are an opportunity to turn toward God, to unite to the sacrifice of our Lord’s cross the difficulties we have in this most intimate part of our being. In this way, our disordered sexual appetites can be the means by which we learn self-mastery, a long and exacting work which is our training in true human freedom and the exercise by which God brings us to true dignity.

So no, homosexual impulses are not sinful in and of themselves.

 

[Chalnoth]

It makes some degree of sense for marriage to be sinful outside of marriage, as the child that could result from such a union can often end up outside the support structure of a family, which could be very damaging for the child's upbringing.

Does it matter that a deeply intimate act is perpetuated which cannot result in children? By that argument, infertile heterosexual couples are committing sin when they have sex. Why should some people be barred from an act of intimacy to which all heterosexual humans have a right, just because their biology got a bit mixed up? They will always have to deal with the stigma of homosexuality, and you want to add insult to injury by making them into second-class citizens by saying they can't ever have sex?

 

[chilehed]

...Does it matter that a deeply intimate act is perpetuated which cannot result in children? By that argument, infertile heterosexual couples are committing sin when they have sex.

The key is that the couple is open to the life that God may choose to give them through the marital act, not doing anything to frustrate its procreative meaning. The fact that the act is performed during an infertile period or by an infertile couple has nothing to do with its morality.

...Why should some people be barred from an act of intimacy to which all heterosexual humans have a right, just because their biology got a bit mixed up? They will always have to deal with the stigma of homosexuality, and you want to add insult to injury by making them into second-class citizens by saying they can't ever have sex?

No one is barred from having ordered sexual relationships by the fact that disordered ones are sinful. As I said, everyone has disordered sexual impulses to some degree; they are an opportunity to grow in God's grace. It's the same story for unmarried heterosexuals.

 

[Caylin]

We're talking about the virtue of chastity: the successful integration of sexuality within ourselves: the inner unity of our bodily and spiritual beings. Sexuality becomes fully human only when it is integrated into the the relationships we have with another person. Christianity holds that we are more than animated flesh, and that sex is more than just about body parts and pleasure. We are a body/soul unity, and when God created Man in His own image as male and female He made put Maleness and Femaleness into our souls as well as our bodies. To join in the marital act is to most deeply fulfill our vocations as images of the invisible God. It is the act through which we experience our most intimate spiritual union with another person; by it our souls are joined together and we are blessed to participate in God's generation of life.

Homosexual acts, being inherently closed to the generation of life and to the successful integration of Male and Female into the whole Man, are contrary to our nature and do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complimentarity. Because the order of our nature is to find this union as a permanent state between Male and Female, any sexual act not between Male and Female and within marriage is intrinsically disordered and deeply harmful to ourselves. This is why Christianity holds homosexual acts to be gravely sinful, as well as heterosexual acts outside of the bond of marriage.

Disordered sexual impulses are a trial, and everyone I know has them, homosexual and heterosexual alike. They are an opportunity to turn toward God, to unite to the sacrifice of our Lord’s cross the difficulties we have in this most intimate part of our being. In this way, our disordered sexual appetites can be the means by which we learn self-mastery, a long and exacting work which is our training in true human freedom and the exercise by which God brings us to true dignity.

So no, homosexual impulses are not sinful in and of themselves.

Of course the catholic church can't do anymore than claim it is disordered and bad for you and actually show some real harm that it causes.

 

[JohnR7]

Is homosexuality a sin?

Why is it that no one every asks if it is repulsive?
It is funny that what some people can not resist, other people find to be repulsive or as the Bible calls it an abomination.

 

[Caylin]

Why is it that no one every asks if it is repulsive?
It is funny that what some people can not resist, other people find to be repulsive or as the Bible calls it an abomination.

Like shrimp? I can't resist shrimp but some people think it is nasty, and the bible calls it an abomination.

 

[JohnR7]

Like shrimp? I can resist shrimp but some people think it is nasty, and the bible calls it an abomination.

Yeah, I tell people that the Bible says they are not to eat them. But they do not seem to want to listen to me. I do not have any problem staying away from shrimp.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Of course the catholic church can't do anymore than claim it is disordered and bad for you and actually show some real harm that it causes.

Well we could talk about spiritual harm. But I know that you want real physical harm in terms of how many people homosexuality has killed.

And of course no one can make an argument for that.

But then again the Catholic Church doesn't bow down and submit to those scales for morality either.

 

[Steezie]

Why is it that no one every asks if it is repulsive?
It is funny that what some people can not resist, other people find to be repulsive or as the Bible calls it an abomination.

Because repulsivity is subjective