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Is homosexuality a sin? If so, why?

Caylin

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My point was that you are trying to play against the church in a game that it is never claimed to play at: of course you will win when you set the rules.

What are you talking about? The church says it harms me so much but can't point to the harm. How does it harm me?
 
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MoonlessNight

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What are you talking about? The church says it harms me so much but can't point to the harm. How does it harm me?
Disordered sexual acts (and that's the term I'm going to be using to emphasize that I am talking about sexual acts here, not necessarily limited to homosexual ones) seperate the the act of sexual intercourse from its purpose, and so glorify the pleasure involved and little else.

Another way you could look at is that sex without purpose is only about giving into pleasures. There is nothing else to the act. Therefore such acts will weaken the virtue of moderation; which is how we resist inappropriate pleasures; which will lead the person to a life in which it is harder to be moral.

On the other side of things you could say that such acts also strengthen the act of lust; which indeed is more or less the glorification of sexual pleaures in and of themselves, this will also make a moral life more difficult. And the vice of lust has its own daughters if strengthened too far.

Though I admit I have difficulty in explaining this particular area. The best that I can say is that a person who does not master his passions will in turn be mastered by them. Glorification of the pleasure of sex as an ends, even if it is a shared ends, certainly does not help in this manner. I think that this is especially true in the modern world, where sex is often encouraged entirely because people say that we cannot resist the urges toward that end.

But even having written that I don't think that I've said what I wanted to.

There is also the harm done to one's relationship with God, but I don't think you'll let me enter that into the equation so I won't discuss it further.
 
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Caylin

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Disordered sexual acts (and that's the term I'm going to be using to emphasize that I am talking about sexual acts here, not necessarily limited to homosexual ones) seperate the the act of sexual intercourse from its purpose, and so glorify the pleasure involved and little else.

Another way you could look at is that sex without purpose is only about giving into pleasures. There is nothing else to the act. Therefore such acts will weaken the virtue of moderation; which is how we resist inappropriate pleasures; which will lead the person to a life in which it is harder to be moral.

On the other side of things you could say that such acts also strengthen the act of lust; which indeed is more or less the glorification of sexual pleaures in and of themselves, this will also make a moral life more difficult. And the vice of lust has its own daughters if strengthened too far.

Though I admit I have difficulty in explaining this particular area. The best that I can say is that a person who does not master his passions will in turn be mastered by them. Glorification of the pleasure of sex as an ends, even if it is a shared ends, certainly does not help in this manner. I think that this is especially true in the modern world, where sex is often encouraged entirely because people say that we cannot resist the urges toward that end.

But even having written that I don't think that I've said what I wanted to.

There is also the harm done to one's relationship with God, but I don't think you'll let me enter that into the equation so I won't discuss it further.

So basiclly it is only about lust and passions? Gay people don't have sex with each other to express their love?
 
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MoonlessNight

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So basiclly it is only about lust and passions? Gay people don't have sex with each other to express their love?
Well we are fair and say that even when a married couple decides that they want to have sex but destroy possibility of children, that is contrary to chastity too. Certainly there is a unitive aspect to sex (and whether that function of sex can still be expressed in a homosexual relationship is probably material for another discussion entirely; but unfortunately one that I admit that I am ill-equipped to discuss) but there is also the generative component. And there is also the pleasure, but that has nothing to do with the ends.

The basic position is, unless I'm mistaken, is that neither component of sex can be removed.

But yes, I will admit that this is a nuanced debate. Certainly it is much harder to argue from a completely secular standpoint, where many of the truths of Catholicism, and sources for inspiration, cannot be called upon.
 
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wanderphilos

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Wherever that view of yours that not working on the Sabbath is merely a guideline, it didn't come from the Bible. The punishment for working on the Sabbath is death by stoning.
Jesus spent quite some time explaining that you should still do good on the Sabbath. I am not suggesting that you don't remember he Sabbath ... and I am not suggesting that you should not keep it Holy. What I am saying is that you should not allow your zeal for the law to cloud your understanding of what God intended the Sabbath to be about. Jesus systematically did 'good works' on the Sabbath, if you need to take care of your family responsibility God understands that you are not 'working' in the sense of 'gaining for the sake of gain', but are following the most important commandment...loving.
 
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Marz Blak

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Lust means to long after something forbidden.

In what dictionary did you find that definition? My sources define it principally as 'intense sexual desire.' I will grant that there may be connoations of illicitness to this desire, but not necessarily so.

It means to live in the flesh and not in the spirit.

Can you explain what this means? I do not understand it.

A spiritual life is not a boring life. Highly spiritual people are very zealous. Some people think it is emotionalism, but emotional expressions leave you tried. Spiritual experances recharge your batterys and your full of energy.

Overgeneralization, I think. I would say that emotional expressions tend to enervate some people and energize others, and some sorts of emotional expressions tend to energize people while others seem to drain people. I will grant that some religious people seem to be energized by the emotion of their faith, but other people get energized by their emotional involvement in other things that have no connection to religiosity.

John 3:6
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 6:63
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Can someone explain to me what 'spirit' is?
 
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