Is Hell Really Eternal? (2)

[Der Alte]

Fudge is just another scholar giving his opinion. Note the complete lack of any evidence supporting this accusation that the doctrine of eternal punishment in hell is "a pollution from paganism via the apologists and their followers and not at all the clear teaching of Scripture." Historical evidence presented several times in this and other threads proves that the Christian belief is eternal punishment did not originate in paganism but in pre-Christian Judaism and the teaching of Jesus.

Based on historical evidence below the Hell:No! view being presented in this forum is not Biblical. The Jews, in Israel before and during the time of Jesus believed in a place of eternal, unending, fiery torment and they called it both Gehinnom/Gehenna and Sheol. When Jesus taught about,

•"Eternal punishment, Mt 25:46"
•"the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mk 9:43-48" and
•"cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Mt 13:42, 50
• “better for [a person who offends a little one] that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Mt 18:6
• “it had been good for [the one who betrays Jesus] if he had not been born.” Mat 26:24​

These teachings supported and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell. Jesus was born in and grew to maturity in 1st century Israel. He knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong Jesus would have corrected them. He did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell was correct. Here is historical evidence to support this.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.]

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b).

But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).


Jewish Encyclopedia Online
====================================================================
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.

The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [follower of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written [Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."

Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

The traditional explanation that a burning rubbish heap in the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem gave rise to the idea of a fiery Gehenna of judgment is attributed to Rabbi David Kimhi's commentary on Psalm 27:13 (ca. A.D. 1200). He maintained that in this loathsome valley fires were kept burning perpetually to consume the filth and cadavers thrown into it. However, Strack and Billerbeck state that there is neither archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources (Hermann L. Strack and Paul Billerbeck, Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud and Midrasch, 5 vols. [Munich: Beck, 1922-56], 4:2:1030). Also a more recent author holds a similar view (Lloyd R. Bailey, "Gehenna: The Topography of Hell," Biblical Archeologist 49 [1986]: 189.

Source, Bibliotheca Sacra / July–September 1992

Scharen: Gehenna in the Synoptics Pt. 1​

Note there is no “archaeological nor literary evidence in support of this claim, [that Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump] in either the earlier intertestamental or the later rabbinic sources” If Gehenna was ever used as a garbage dump there should be broken pottery, tools, utensils, bones, etc. but there is no such evidence.

“Gehenna is presented as diametrically opposed to ‘life’: it is better to enter life than to go to Gehenna. . .It is common practice, both in scholarly and less technical works, to associate the description of Gehenna with the supposedly contemporary garbage dump in the valley of Hinnom. This association often leads scholars to emphasize the destructive aspects of the judgment here depicted: fire burns until the object is completely consumed. Two particular problems may be noted in connection with this approach. First, there is no convincing evidence in the primary sources for the existence of a fiery rubbish dump in this location (in any case, a thorough investigation would be appreciated). Secondly, the significant background to this passage more probably lies in Jesus’ allusion to Isaiah 66:24.” (“The Duration of Divine Judgment in the New Testament” in The Reader Must Understand edited by K. Brower and M. W. Ellion, p. 223, emphasis mine)​

G. R. Beasley-Murray in Jesus and the Kingdom of God:

“Ge-Hinnom (Aramaic Ge-hinnam, hence the Greek Geenna), ‘The Valley of Hinnom,’ lay south of Jerusalem, immediately outside its walls. The notion, still referred to by some commentators, that the city’s rubbish was burned in this valley, has no further basis than a statement by the Jewish scholar Kimchi (sic) made about A.D. 1200; it is not attested in any ancient source.” (p. 376n.92)

The Burning Garbage Dump of Gehenna is a myth - Archaeology, Biblical History & Textual Criticism - Bible Truth Discussion Forum​

Bumped to the top in response to yet an other Hell:no! thread.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.]

The god Molech is what got Solomon in hugh trouble in the OT.......1Ki 11:

7 Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, on the hill that is east of Jerusalem,
and for Molech the abomination of the people of Ammon.
8 And he did likewise for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.
9 So the LORD became angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned from the LORD God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice,
11 Therefore the LORD said to Solomon, “Because you have done this, and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant.............

Jer 32:35
‘And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them,
nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.'


Hell Is For Children - YouTube


.

 

[he-man]

Bumped to the top in response to yet an other Hell:no! thread.

<G3639> <G622> Usage in the NT
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2Th 1:9 who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,
1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and many unwise and hurtful lusts, which plunge men into destruction and ruin.


STRONG:¨&#959;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#962; From &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; ollumi a primary word (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, that is, death, punishment: - destruction.

LOUW-NIDA: a ruin (state) b destruction 20.34
THAYER 1) ruin, destroy, death

LSJ: ¨¨ &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;-&#959;&#962;, &#8001;, A ruin, destruction, death, &#945;&#7984;&#960;&#8058;&#962; &#8004;. Il.11.174 , al.; &#955;&#965;&#947;&#961;&#8056;&#962; &#8004;. 10.174 , al.; &#8004;. &#7936;&#948;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#942;&#962; Od.4.489 ; &#959;&#7988;&#954;&#964;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962; &#8004;. 23.79 ; &#7989;&#957;&#945; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8134;&#962; &#8036;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962; &#8004;. Il.22.325 ; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#965; &#960;&#949;&#943;&#961;&#945;&#964;&#945;, like &#964;&#941;&#955;&#959;&#962; &#952;&#945;&#957;&#940;&#964;&#959;&#953;&#959;, the consummation of death, 6.143 ; &#8004;., opp. &#947;&#941;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962;, Parm.8.21 , 27 ; &#959;&#8016;&#954; &#949;&#7984;&#962; &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#957;; as an imprecation, plague take thee! S.OT430 ; &#967;&#961;&#951;&#956;&#940;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; by destruction of property. Th.7.27 ; &#949;&#7990;&#957;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; Antipho 1.29 ; &#7952;&#960;&#700; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#967;&#961;&#969;&#956;&#941;&#957;&#969;&#957; E.Ph.534 ;

AUTENRIETH: &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#962; (&#8004;&#955;&#955;&#8161;&#956;&#953: destruction, ruin, death;&#945;&#7984;&#960;&#973;&#962;, &#955;&#965;&#947;&#961;&#972;&#962;, &#7936;&#948;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#942;&#962;, &#959;&#7988;&#954;&#964;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962;.

LSJ: destroy, make an end of, and of living beings, kill, &#957;&#8134;&#940;&#962; &#964;&#700; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#962; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#960;&#940;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#962; &#7944;&#967;&#945;&#953;&#959;&#973;&#962; Il.8.498 , cf. Od.23.319;
Med., I perish, come to an end, and of living beings, die, esp. a violent death, &#7936;&#960;&#700; &#945;&#7984;&#8182;&#957;&#959;&#962; &#957;&#941;&#959;&#962; &#8036;&#955;&#949;&#959; Il.24.725
(mid. and intrans. aor. and perf.) perish, die
SLATER: ¨¨ destroy &#964;&#961;&#949;&#8150;&#962; &#964;&#949; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#948;&#941;&#954;&#700; &#7940;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#945;&#962; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#953;&#962; (sc. &#927;&#7984;&#957;&#972;&#956;&#945;&#959;&#962 O. 1.79

MIDDLELIDDELL: &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; from Root !&#959;&#955;

A Act. = Lat. perdo,
1. to destroy, make an end of , Hom., Trag.:—also of doing away with evil, &#8036;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#949;&#957; &#957;&#972;&#963;&#959;&#957; Aesch. II to lose , &#952;&#965;&#956;&#972;&#957;, &#968;&#965;&#967;&#942;&#957;, &#956;&#941;&#957;&#959;&#962;, &#7974;&#964;&#959;&#961; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#953; to lose life, Hom.; Mid., = Lat. pereo,

1. to perish, come to an end , Hom.; also c. acc. cogn., &#954;&#945;&#954;&#8056;&#957; &#959;&#7990;&#964;&#959;&#957;, &#954;&#945;&#954;&#8056;&#957; &#956;&#972;&#961;&#959;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#953; to die by an evil death, Il.:— &#8004;&#955;&#959;&#953;&#959;, &#8004;&#955;&#959;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#949; may&#700;st thou, may ye, perish! an imprecation,

2. to be ruined, undone , Hom., Hom. III perf. &#8004;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#945;, in sense of Mid., to have perished, to be undone, ruined , Il., Aesch., etc.; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#972;&#964;&#969;&#957; of the dead , Aesch.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy <G622 &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;> the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
&#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;, &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#8161;&#956;&#953;, &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#8182;, &#7936;&#960;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#945; (trans) or &#7936;&#960;&#969;&#955;&#972;&#956;&#951;&#957; (intrans), &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#954;&#945; (trans) or &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#945; (intrans)&#962; &#935;&#935;&#935;, &#935;&#935;&#935;, kill, (mid. and intrans.) die, cease to exist

LSJ: Prep. postponed in Od.9.534 :—stronger form of &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;, destroy utterly, kill, in Hom. mostly of death in battle, &#7936;&#960;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#949; &#955;&#945;&#8056;&#957; &#7944;&#967;&#945;&#953;&#8182;&#957; 11.5.758 , al.;
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

THAYER: 1) to destroy 1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
1b) render useless 1c) to kill 1d) to declare that one must be put to death

MIDDLELIDDELL: &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; 1. to destroy utterly, kill, slay , and of things, to destroy, demolish, waste
LOUW-NIDA: a. destroy

STRONG G622 &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; &#945;&#787;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#949;&#769;&#963;&#949;&#953; From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;:
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;:
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

 

[Der Alte]

<G3639> <G622> Usage in the NT
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2Th 1:9 who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,
1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and many unwise and hurtful lusts, which plunge men into destruction and ruin.


STRONG:¨&#959;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#962; From &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; ollumi a primary word (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, that is, death, punishment: - destruction.

LOUW-NIDA: a ruin (state) b destruction 20.34
THAYER 1) ruin, destroy, death

LSJ: ¨¨ &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;-&#959;&#962;, &#8001;, A ruin, destruction, death, &#945;&#7984;&#960;&#8058;&#962; &#8004;. Il.11.174 , al.; &#955;&#965;&#947;&#961;&#8056;&#962; &#8004;. 10.174 , al.; &#8004;. &#7936;&#948;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#942;&#962; Od.4.489 ; &#959;&#7988;&#954;&#964;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962; &#8004;. 23.79 ; &#7989;&#957;&#945; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8134;&#962; &#8036;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962; &#8004;. Il.22.325 ; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#965; &#960;&#949;&#943;&#961;&#945;&#964;&#945;, like &#964;&#941;&#955;&#959;&#962; &#952;&#945;&#957;&#940;&#964;&#959;&#953;&#959;, the consummation of death, 6.143 ; &#8004;., opp. &#947;&#941;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962;, Parm.8.21 , 27 ; &#959;&#8016;&#954; &#949;&#7984;&#962; &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#957;; as an imprecation, plague take thee! S.OT430 ; &#967;&#961;&#951;&#956;&#940;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; by destruction of property. Th.7.27 ; &#949;&#7990;&#957;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; Antipho 1.29 ; &#7952;&#960;&#700; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#967;&#961;&#969;&#956;&#941;&#957;&#969;&#957; E.Ph.534 ;

AUTENRIETH: &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#962; (&#8004;&#955;&#955;&#8161;&#956;&#953: destruction, ruin, death;&#945;&#7984;&#960;&#973;&#962;, &#955;&#965;&#947;&#961;&#972;&#962;, &#7936;&#948;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#942;&#962;, &#959;&#7988;&#954;&#964;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962;.

LSJ: destroy, make an end of, and of living beings, kill, &#957;&#8134;&#940;&#962; &#964;&#700; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#962; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#960;&#940;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#962; &#7944;&#967;&#945;&#953;&#959;&#973;&#962; Il.8.498 , cf. Od.23.319;
Med., I perish, come to an end, and of living beings, die, esp. a violent death, &#7936;&#960;&#700; &#945;&#7984;&#8182;&#957;&#959;&#962; &#957;&#941;&#959;&#962; &#8036;&#955;&#949;&#959; Il.24.725
(mid. and intrans. aor. and perf.) perish, die
SLATER: ¨¨ destroy &#964;&#961;&#949;&#8150;&#962; &#964;&#949; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#948;&#941;&#954;&#700; &#7940;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#945;&#962; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#953;&#962; (sc. &#927;&#7984;&#957;&#972;&#956;&#945;&#959;&#962 O. 1.79

MIDDLELIDDELL: &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; from Root !&#959;&#955;

A Act. = Lat. perdo,
1. to destroy, make an end of , Hom., Trag.:—also of doing away with evil, &#8036;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#949;&#957; &#957;&#972;&#963;&#959;&#957; Aesch. II to lose , &#952;&#965;&#956;&#972;&#957;, &#968;&#965;&#967;&#942;&#957;, &#956;&#941;&#957;&#959;&#962;, &#7974;&#964;&#959;&#961; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#953; to lose life, Hom.; Mid., = Lat. pereo,

1. to perish, come to an end , Hom.; also c. acc. cogn., &#954;&#945;&#954;&#8056;&#957; &#959;&#7990;&#964;&#959;&#957;, &#954;&#945;&#954;&#8056;&#957; &#956;&#972;&#961;&#959;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#953; to die by an evil death, Il.:— &#8004;&#955;&#959;&#953;&#959;, &#8004;&#955;&#959;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#949; may&#700;st thou, may ye, perish! an imprecation,

2. to be ruined, undone , Hom., Hom. III perf. &#8004;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#945;, in sense of Mid., to have perished, to be undone, ruined , Il., Aesch., etc.; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#972;&#964;&#969;&#957; of the dead , Aesch.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy <G622 &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;> the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
&#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;, &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#8161;&#956;&#953;, &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#8182;, &#7936;&#960;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#945; (trans) or &#7936;&#960;&#969;&#955;&#972;&#956;&#951;&#957; (intrans), &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#954;&#945; (trans) or &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#945; (intrans)&#962; &#935;&#935;&#935;, &#935;&#935;&#935;, kill, (mid. and intrans.) die, cease to exist

LSJ: Prep. postponed in Od.9.534 :—stronger form of &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;, destroy utterly, kill, in Hom. mostly of death in battle, &#7936;&#960;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#949; &#955;&#945;&#8056;&#957; &#7944;&#967;&#945;&#953;&#8182;&#957; 11.5.758 , al.;
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

THAYER: 1) to destroy 1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
1b) render useless 1c) to kill 1d) to declare that one must be put to death

MIDDLELIDDELL: &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; 1. to destroy utterly, kill, slay , and of things, to destroy, demolish, waste
LOUW-NIDA: a. destroy

STRONG G622 &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; &#945;&#787;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#949;&#769;&#963;&#949;&#953; From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;:
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;:
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

This selective, out-of-context copy/paste has been addressed and refuted several times before. &#7936;&#960;&#8057;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;/Appolumi occurs 86 times in the NT, of this 71 times, 83%, cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which supposedly occurs at the final judgment. Here is a list of those meanings.

(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one’s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’), (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].

&#7936;&#960;&#8057;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; for its conj. s. Bl-D. §101 ( s.v. o[llumi ); Rob. 317; fut. ajpolevsw Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. ajpolw` 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ); 1 aor. ajpwvlesa ; 1 pf. ajpolwvleka ; fut. mid. ajpolou`mai Lk 13:3 ; 2 aor. ajpwlovmhn ; the 2 pf. ajpovlwla serves as a pf. mid ., ptc. ajpolwlwv" ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ).

1. act .— a. ruin, destroy.
a. of pers. (Sir 10:3 ) Mk 1:24 ; Lk 4:34 . W. ref. to eternal destruction mh; ejkei`non ajpovllue do not bring about his ruin Ro 14:15 . Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4 ; Esth 9:6 v.l .; 1 Macc 2:37 ; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. paidivon Mt 2:13 ; Jesus 12:14 ; 27:20 ; Mk 3:6 ; 11:18 ; Lk 19:47 ; B 12:5; [kill] the wicked tenants kakou;" kakw`" aj. ( s. kakov" 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41 . tou;" gewrgouv" Mk 12:9 ; Lk 20:16 ; t. fonei`" Mt 22:7 ; t. mh; pisteuvsanta" those who did not believe Jd 5 ; pavnta" Lk 17:27 , 29 . W. sw`sai (1ike Charito 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12 ; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death ( Herm. Wr. 4, 7) yuch;n k. sw`ma aj. ejn geevnnh/ Mt 10:28 ; yuchvn B 20:1; t. yucav" Hs 9, 26, 3 ( cf. Sir 20:22 ).
b. w. impers. obj. aj. t. sofivan t. sofw`n destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ). aj. t. diavnoian destroy the understanding Hm 11:1.— g. without obj. J 10:10 .
b. lose ( X. , Pla. +; PPetr. III 51, 5; POxy. 743, 23; PFay. 111, 3 ff ; Sir 6:3 ; 9:6 ; 27:16 et al .; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14 ) t. misqovn lose the reward Mt 10:42 ; Mk 9:41 ; Hs 5, 6, 7. dracmhvn ( Dio Chrys. 70[20], 25) Lk 15:8 f ; aj. a} hjrgasavmeqa lose what we have worked for 2J 8 . diaqhvkhn B 4:6, 8. th;n zwh;n t. ajnqrwvpwn Hm 2:1; cf. s 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2 f and 5. th;n ejlpivda m 5, 1, 7.— W . colloqu. flavor i{na pa`n o} devdwkevn moi mhv ajpolevsw ejx aujtou` that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 ( Bl-D. §466, 3; Rob. 437; 753).— aj. th;n yuchvn ( cf. Sir 20:22 ) lose one’s life Mt 10:39 ; 16:25 ; Mk 8:35 ; Lk 9:24 ; 17:33 ; cf. J 12:25 . For this aj. eJautovn lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus Lyr. [VII BC ], fgm. 8 Diehl 2 lines 12 ff : ‘The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it’).

2. mid .— a. be destroyed, ruined.
a. of pers. perish, die ( schol. on Nicander , Ther. 188 ajpovllutai oJ ajnhvr =the man dies) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1 f. As a cry of anguish ajpolluvmeqa we are perishing! ( PPetr. II 4, 4 nuni; de; ajpolluvmeqa ) Mt 8:25 ; Mk 4:38 ; Lk 8:24 ( Arrian , Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ejn macaivrh/ aj. die by the sword Mt 26:52 . limw`/ [die] of hunger (Ezk 34:29 ) Lk 15:17 . th`/ ajntilogiva/ tou` Kovre Jd 11 c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted; cf. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). uJpo; tino" ( Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13[7], 12) uJpo; t. o[fewn killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9 ; cf. vs. 1 0. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50 . Of individuals (Lev 23:30 ) Ac 5:37 ; 2 Pt 3:9 ; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20 ).—Esp. of eternal death ( cf. Ps 9:6 f ; 36:20; 67:3 ; 91:10 ; Is 41:11 ) J 3:16 ; 17:12 . ajpolevsqai eij" to;n aijw`na perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 hJmei`" ajpolluvmenoi to;n aijw`na). ajnovmw" aj. Ro 2:12 ; mwrw`" aj. IEph 17:2; ejn kauchvsei because of boasting ITr 4:1; cf. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Cl 17:1.— oiJ ajpolluvmenoi ( opp. oiJ sw/zovmenoi , like Plut. , Mor. 469 D ) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18 ; 2 Cor 2:15 ; 4:3 ; 2 Th 2:10 ; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this to; ajpolwlov" Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:11 —Ezk 34:4 , 16 ). ta; ajpolluvmena 2 Cl 2:7 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 417, 9 ta; te ajpolwlovta ejk t. iJerou` ajnevswsan ). b. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined ( Jos. , Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem) of bursting wineskins Mk 9:17 ; Mk 2:22 ; Lk 5:37 ; fading beauty Js 1:11 ; transitory beauty of gold 1 Pt 1:7 ; passing splendor Rv 18:14 ( w. ajpov as Jer 10:11 ; Da 7:17 ). Of earthly food J 6:27 ; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27 ). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6 ).
b. be lost (Antipho 54 Diels, Vorsokrat. ajpolovmenon ajrguvrion ; X. , Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3 ) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18 ; Ac 27:34 ; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29 f ; remnants of food J 6:12
. Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.—Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6 ; 15:24 ; Lk 15:4 , 6 ; B 5:12 ( cf. Jer 27:6 ; Ezk 34:4 ; Ps 118:176 ). Of a lost son [who has returned]Lk 15:24 ( Artem. 4, 33 hJ gunhv. . . t. uiJo;n ajpwvlese kai. . . eu|ren aujtovn .—JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn ’40). aj. qew`/ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4. M-M. B. 758; 766.

BAG Lexicon online​

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by he-man

<G3639> <G622> Usage in the NT
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2Th 1:9 who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,
1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and many unwise and hurtful lusts, which plunge men into destruction and ruin.


STRONG:¨&#959;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#962; From &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; ollumi a primary word (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, that is, death, punishment: - destruction.

LOUW-NIDA: a ruin (state) b destruction 20.34
THAYER 1) ruin, destroy, death

LSJ: ¨¨ &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;-&#959;&#962;, &#8001;, A ruin, destruction, death, &#945;&#7984;&#960;&#8058;&#962; &#8004;. Il.11.174 , al.; &#955;&#965;&#947;&#961;&#8056;&#962; &#8004;. 10.174 , al.; &#8004;. &#7936;&#948;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#942;&#962; Od.4.489 ; &#959;&#7988;&#954;&#964;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962; &#8004;. 23.79 ; &#7989;&#957;&#945; &#968;&#965;&#967;&#8134;&#962; &#8036;&#954;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962; &#8004;. Il.22.325 ; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#965; &#960;&#949;&#943;&#961;&#945;&#964;&#945;, like &#964;&#941;&#955;&#959;&#962; &#952;&#945;&#957;&#940;&#964;&#959;&#953;&#959;, the consummation of death, 6.143 ; &#8004;., opp. &#947;&#941;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#953;&#962;, Parm.8.21 , 27 ; &#959;&#8016;&#954; &#949;&#7984;&#962; &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#957;; as an imprecation, plague take thee! S.OT430 ; &#967;&#961;&#951;&#956;&#940;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; by destruction of property. Th.7.27 ; &#949;&#7990;&#957;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; Antipho 1.29 ; &#7952;&#960;&#700; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#952;&#961;&#8179; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#967;&#961;&#969;&#956;&#941;&#957;&#969;&#957; E.Ph.534 ;

AUTENRIETH: &#8004;&#955;&#949;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#962; (&#8004;&#955;&#955;&#8161;&#956;&#953: destruction, ruin, death;&#945;&#7984;&#960;&#973;&#962;, &#955;&#965;&#947;&#961;&#972;&#962;, &#7936;&#948;&#949;&#965;&#954;&#942;&#962;, &#959;&#7988;&#954;&#964;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#959;&#962;.

LSJ: destroy, make an end of, and of living beings, kill, &#957;&#8134;&#940;&#962; &#964;&#700; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#962; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#960;&#940;&#957;&#964;&#945;&#962; &#7944;&#967;&#945;&#953;&#959;&#973;&#962; Il.8.498 , cf. Od.23.319;
Med., I perish, come to an end, and of living beings, die, esp. a violent death, &#7936;&#960;&#700; &#945;&#7984;&#8182;&#957;&#959;&#962; &#957;&#941;&#959;&#962; &#8036;&#955;&#949;&#959; Il.24.725
(mid. and intrans. aor. and perf.) perish, die
SLATER: ¨¨ destroy &#964;&#961;&#949;&#8150;&#962; &#964;&#949; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#948;&#941;&#954;&#700; &#7940;&#957;&#948;&#961;&#945;&#962; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#953;&#962; (sc. &#927;&#7984;&#957;&#972;&#956;&#945;&#959;&#962 O. 1.79

MIDDLELIDDELL: &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; from Root !&#959;&#955;

A Act. = Lat. perdo,
1. to destroy, make an end of , Hom., Trag.:&#8212;also of doing away with evil, &#8036;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#949;&#957; &#957;&#972;&#963;&#959;&#957; Aesch. II to lose , &#952;&#965;&#956;&#972;&#957;, &#968;&#965;&#967;&#942;&#957;, &#956;&#941;&#957;&#959;&#962;, &#7974;&#964;&#959;&#961; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#945;&#953; to lose life, Hom.; Mid., = Lat. pereo,

1. to perish, come to an end , Hom.; also c. acc. cogn., &#954;&#945;&#954;&#8056;&#957; &#959;&#7990;&#964;&#959;&#957;, &#954;&#945;&#954;&#8056;&#957; &#956;&#972;&#961;&#959;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#941;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#953; to die by an evil death, Il.:&#8212; &#8004;&#955;&#959;&#953;&#959;, &#8004;&#955;&#959;&#953;&#963;&#952;&#949; may&#700;st thou, may ye, perish! an imprecation,

2. to be ruined, undone , Hom., Hom. III perf. &#8004;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#945;, in sense of Mid., to have perished, to be undone, ruined , Il., Aesch., etc.; &#964;&#8182;&#957; &#8000;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#972;&#964;&#969;&#957; of the dead , Aesch.

Mar 12:9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy <G622 &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;> the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
&#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;, &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#8161;&#956;&#953;, &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#8182;, &#7936;&#960;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#945; (trans) or &#7936;&#960;&#969;&#955;&#972;&#956;&#951;&#957; (intrans), &#7936;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#954;&#945; (trans) or &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#969;&#955;&#945; (intrans)&#962; &#935;&#935;&#935;, &#935;&#935;&#935;, kill, (mid. and intrans.) die, cease to exist

LSJ: Prep. postponed in Od.9.534 :&#8212;stronger form of &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;, destroy utterly, kill, in Hom. mostly of death in battle, &#7936;&#960;&#974;&#955;&#949;&#963;&#949; &#955;&#945;&#8056;&#957; &#7944;&#967;&#945;&#953;&#8182;&#957; 11.5.758 , al.;
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

THAYER: 1) to destroy 1a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
1b) render useless 1c) to kill 1d) to declare that one must be put to death

MIDDLELIDDELL: &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; 1. to destroy utterly, kill, slay , and of things, to destroy, demolish, waste
LOUW-NIDA: a. destroy

STRONG G622 &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; &#945;&#787;&#960;&#959;&#955;&#949;&#769;&#963;&#949;&#953; From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully

2Co 2:15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;:
2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;:
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that &#7936;&#960;&#972;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
​

This selective, out-of-context copy/paste has been addressed and refuted several times before. &#7936;&#960;&#8057;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953;/Appolumi occurs 86 times in the NT, of this 71 times, 83%, cannot mean the destruction/annihilation which supposedly occurs at the final judgment. Here is a list of those meanings.

(1) ruin, (2) do not bring about his ruin, (3) put to death, the wicked tenants, (4) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death, (5) destroy the wisdom of the wise, (6) destroy the understanding, (7) lose, (8) lose the reward, (9) lose what we have worked for, (10) lose one&#8217;s life, (11) lose oneself, (12) The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it&#8217, (13) ruined, (14) die, the man dies, (15) As a cry of anguish, we are perishing!, (16) of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer, (17) die by the sword, (18) die of hunger, (19) be corrupted, (20) killed by the snakes, (21) those who are lost, (22) of things be lost, (23) pass away, (24) be ruined, (26) of bursting wineskins, (25) fading beauty, (26) transitory beauty of gold, (27) passing splendor, (28) Of earthly food, (29) spoiled honey, (30) Of falling hair, (31) a member or organ of the body, (32) remnants of food, (33) of wine that has lost its flavor, (34) of sheep gone astray, (35) Of a lost son [that returned].

&#7936;&#960;&#8057;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#956;&#953; for its conj. s. Bl-D. §101 ( s.v. o[llumi ); Rob. 317; fut. ajpolevsw Hs 8, 7, 5, Att. ajpolw` 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ); 1 aor. ajpwvlesa ; 1 pf. ajpolwvleka ; fut. mid. ajpolou`mai Lk 13:3 ; 2 aor. ajpwlovmhn ; the 2 pf. ajpovlwla serves as a pf. mid ., ptc. ajpolwlwv" ( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , En. , Philo , Joseph. , Test. 12 Patr. ).

1. act .&#8212; a. ruin, destroy.
a. of pers. (Sir 10:3 ) Mk 1:24 ; Lk 4:34 . W. ref. to eternal destruction mh; ejkei`non ajpovllue do not bring about his ruin Ro 14:15 . Esp. kill, put to death (Gen 20:4 ; Esth 9:6 v.l .; 1 Macc 2:37 ; Jos. , C. Ap. 1, 122) Hs 9, 26, 7. paidivon Mt 2:13 ; Jesus 12:14 ; 27:20 ; Mk 3:6 ; 11:18 ; Lk 19:47 ; B 12:5; [kill] the wicked tenants kakou;" kakw`" aj. ( s. kakov" 1a) he will put the evildoers to a miserable death Mt 21:41 . tou;" gewrgouv" Mk 12:9 ; Lk 20:16 ; t. fonei`" Mt 22:7 ; t. mh; pisteuvsanta" those who did not believe Jd 5 ; pavnta" Lk 17:27 , 29 . W. sw`sai (1ike Charito 2, 8, 1) Js 4:12 ; Hs 9, 23, 4. Of eternal death ( Herm. Wr. 4, 7) yuch;n k. sw`ma aj. ejn geevnnh/ Mt 10:28 ; yuchvn B 20:1; t. yucav" Hs 9, 26, 3 ( cf. Sir 20:22 ).
b. w. impers. obj. aj. t. sofivan t. sofw`n destroy the wisdom of the wise 1 Cor 1:19 (Is 29:14 ). aj. t. diavnoian destroy the understanding Hm 11:1.&#8212; g. without obj. J 10:10 .
b. lose ( X. , Pla. +; PPetr. III 51, 5; POxy. 743, 23; PFay. 111, 3 ff ; Sir 6:3 ; 9:6 ; 27:16 et al .; Tob 7:6 BA; 4 Macc 2:14 ) t. misqovn lose the reward Mt 10:42 ; Mk 9:41 ; Hs 5, 6, 7. dracmhvn ( Dio Chrys. 70[20], 25) Lk 15:8 f ; aj. a} hjrgasavmeqa lose what we have worked for 2J 8 . diaqhvkhn B 4:6, 8. th;n zwh;n t. ajnqrwvpwn Hm 2:1; cf. s 8, 6, 6; 8, 7, 5; 8, 8, 2 f and 5. th;n ejlpivda m 5, 1, 7.&#8212; W . colloqu. flavor i{na pa`n o} devdwkevn moi mhv ajpolevsw ejx aujtou` that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me J 6:39 ( Bl-D. §466, 3; Rob. 437; 753).&#8212; aj. th;n yuchvn ( cf. Sir 20:22 ) lose one&#8217;s life Mt 10:39 ; 16:25 ; Mk 8:35 ; Lk 9:24 ; 17:33 ; cf. J 12:25 . For this aj. eJautovn lose oneself Lk 9:25 (similar in form is Tyrtaeus Lyr. [VII BC ], fgm. 8 Diehl 2 lines 12 ff : &#8216;The man who risks his life in battle has the best chance of saving it; the one who flees to save it is most likely to lose it&#8217;).

2. mid .&#8212; a. be destroyed, ruined.
a. of pers. perish, die ( schol. on Nicander , Ther. 188 ajpovllutai oJ ajnhvr =the man dies) 1 Cl 51:5; 55:6; B 5:4, 12; D 16:5; Hs 6, 2, 1 f. As a cry of anguish ajpolluvmeqa we are perishing! ( PPetr. II 4, 4 nuni; de; ajpolluvmeqa ) Mt 8:25 ; Mk 4:38 ; Lk 8:24 ( Arrian , Peripl. 3, 3 of disaster that the stormy sea brings to the seafarer). ejn macaivrh/ aj. die by the sword Mt 26:52 . limw`/ [die] of hunger (Ezk 34:29 ) Lk 15:17 . th`/ ajntilogiva/ tou` Kovre Jd 11 c (because of 11a and b it should perh. = be corrupted; cf. Polyb. 32, 23, 6). uJpo; tino" ( Hdt. 5. 126; Dio Chrys. 13[7], 12) uJpo; t. o[fewn killed by the snakes 1 Cor 10:9 ; cf. vs. 1 0. Abs. of a people perish J 11:50 . Of individuals (Lev 23:30 ) Ac 5:37 ; 2 Pt 3:9 ; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20 ).&#8212;Esp. of eternal death ( cf. Ps 9:6 f ; 36:20; 67:3 ; 91:10 ; Is 41:11 ) J 3:16 ; 17:12 . ajpolevsqai eij" to;n aijw`na perish forever 10:28 (Bar 3:3 hJmei`" ajpolluvmenoi to;n aijw`na). ajnovmw" aj. Ro 2:12 ; mwrw`" aj. IEph 17:2; ejn kauchvsei because of boasting ITr 4:1; cf. IPol 5:2. Abs. 1 Cor 8:11 ; 15:18 ; 2 Cl 17:1.&#8212; oiJ ajpolluvmenoi ( opp. oiJ sw/zovmenoi , like Plut. , Mor. 469 D ) those who are lost 1 Cor 1:18 ; 2 Cor 2:15 ; 4:3 ; 2 Th 2:10 ; 2 Cl 1:4; 2:5. For this to; ajpolwlov" Lk 19:10 (Mt 18:11 &#8212;Ezk 34:4 , 16 ). ta; ajpolluvmena 2 Cl 2:7 ( cf. Dit., Syll. 3 417, 9 ta; te ajpolwlovta ejk t. iJerou` ajnevswsan ). b. of things be lost, pass away, be ruined ( Jos. , Bell. 2, 650 of Jerusalem) of bursting wineskins Mk 9:17 ; Mk 2:22 ; Lk 5:37 ; fading beauty Js 1:11 ; transitory beauty of gold 1 Pt 1:7 ; passing splendor Rv 18:14 ( w. ajpov as Jer 10:11 ; Da 7:17 ). Of earthly food J 6:27 ; spoiled honey Hm 5, 1, 5. Of the heavens which, like the earth, will pass away Hb 1:11 (Ps 101:27 ). Of the end of the world Hv 4, 3, 3, Of the way of the godless, which is lost in darkness B 11:7 (Ps 1:6 ).
b. be lost (Antipho 54 Diels, Vorsokrat. ajpolovmenon ajrguvrion ; X. , Symp. 1, 5; 1 Km 9:3 ) ISm 10:1. Of falling hair Lk 21:18 ; Ac 27:34 ; a member or organ of the body Mt 5:29 f ; remnants of food J 6:12
. Of wine that has lost its flavor Hm 12, 5, 3.&#8212;Of sheep gone astray Mt 10:6 ; 15:24 ; Lk 15:4 , 6 ; B 5:12 ( cf. Jer 27:6 ; Ezk 34:4 ; Ps 118:176 ). Of a lost son [who has returned]Lk 15:24 ( Artem. 4, 33 hJ gunhv. . . t. uiJo;n ajpwvlese kai. . . eu|ren aujtovn .&#8212;JSchniewind, D. Gleichn. vom verl. Sohn &#8217;40). aj. qew`/ be lost to God Hs 8, 6, 4. M-M. B. 758; 766.

BAG Lexicon online
​

Genesis 6:13
And Elohiym is saying to Noah end of All Flesh come before Me, that she is full the land wrong/violence from presences of them and behold Me! ruining/07843 shachath them the land.

Matthew 24:38
"For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

Reve 11:18
and the nations are angered and came the wrath of Thee and the time of the dead to be judged. And to give the wages to the bond-servants of Thee, the prophets, and to the saints, and to the ones fearing the name of Thee, the small ones and the great ones,
and to ruin/blight the ones ruining/blighting the land. [Genesis 6:11-13]



.

 

[he-man]

Genesis 6:13
And Elohiym is saying to Noah end of All Flesh come before Me, that she is full the land wrong/violence from presences of them and behold Me! ruining/07843 shachath them the land.

Paul spells out how God is the only One ever in heaven except Christ, after he was ressurected and how we respond to anyone who thinks there is a literal devil/satan.

Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

 

[Phoneman777]

If the wages of sin is eternal torment, the only way that Jesus could take our place and pay our debt for sin is that HE BE eternally tormented. Period.

 

[Der Alte]

If the wages of sin is eternal torment, the only way that Jesus could take our place and pay our debt for sin is that HE BE eternally tormented. Period.

Yes annihilationists always quote Rom 6:23. But there are more verses.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;​

Along with Rom 6:23 this tells me that all, 100%, of mankind have sinned and will die.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:​

These verses in every case satisfy Rom 6:23. And since all men have sinned, all 100%, of mankind will face the judgment. But what these verses don't say is, "The wages of sin is death, resurrection, judgment then a second death."

After that inevitable death, when mankind faces that judgment Jesus will say to some "these go away into everlasting punishment." Jesus did not say death. We don't use the writings of the apostles to twist Jesus' words and make them mean something else.

 

[he-man]

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:These verses in every case satisfy Rom 6:23. But what these verses don't say is, "The wages of sin is death, resurrection, judgment then a second death."After that inevitable death, when mankind faces that judgment Jesus will say to some "these go away into everlasting punishment." Jesus did not say death. We don't use the writings of the apostles to twist Jesus' words and make them mean something else.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too! It is either eternal life or the eternal punishment of DEATH.

Mat 25:46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Eternal punishment (kolasin aio&#772;nion). The word kolasin comes from kolazo&#772;, to mutilate or prune. [RWP]

Isa 43:17 Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Rev 21:8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

And since all men have sinned, all 100%, of mankind will face the judgment.

Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Psa 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Psa 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

Isa 43:17 Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow.

Isa 1:31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.

Isa 14:21 as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be summoned. H7121 [&#1511;&#1512;&#1488;] v. be read; called; summoned; be named, called

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You cannot have your cake and eat it too! It is either eternal life or the eternal punishment of DEATH.

Mat 25:46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I tend to agree.
1 Jo 5 mentions a sin that leads to death.

I would say this death is speaking of the 2nd death as mentioned in Revelation, as everyone dies once, whether they comitted this particular sin or not. IMHO.

1Jo 5:16
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death.
There is sin leading to death.
I do not say that he should pray about that.



.

 

[Timothew]

Bumped to the top in response to yet an other Hell:no! thread.

Heman and Deralter locked in an eternal argument:
Barbossa: So what now, Jack Sparrow? Are we to be two immortals locked in an epic battle until Judgment Day and trumpets sound?
Jack Sparrow: Or you could surrender.

 

[DennisTate]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Is Hell Really Eternal?"

Apparently the word translated "forever" in the original Hebrew means more like "until the end of conditions last." This would fit better with what near death experience George Ritchie was shown about hell.......

His Description of the Horrors of Hell

They were still somewhere on the surface of the Earth; but no living person or beings of light could be seen. Before them was a plain jammed with hordes of spirits who are the most miserable and angriest beings he has ever seen. Many were engaged in hand-to-hand combat with no weapons - trying in vain to hurt and kill those who didn't agree with them. A lot of verbal abuse could be heard between them as their thoughts could be heard by everyone around them the moment they are thought. Ritchie is horrified as he wonders what living in such a realm would be like - a place where you cannot hide from who you really are. These spirits were locked into destructive thought-patterns, rage and uncontrollable lust. Some were trying in vain to get sexual gratification from each other. The wailing coming from the hordes of unsatisfied spirits was tremendous. Other spirits were in despair saying things such as, "I always knew!" and "Didn't I warn you!" Ritchie realizes this place is truly hell. Their obsessive thoughts and emotions extended beyond the physical realm and into the spiritual realm where they cannot be satisfied. Yet there was nothing preventing any of the poor spirits in these realms from leaving. There was no condemnation coming from Jesus either - only compassion for these miserable spirits. Ritchie realizes Jesus hadn't abandoned any of them here. Instead they fled from the light to escape from having the darkness of their heart from being revealed.

Dr. George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

 

[DennisTate]

Heman and Deralter locked in an eternal argument:
Barbossa: So what now, Jack Sparrow? Are we to be two immortals locked in an epic battle until Judgment Day and trumpets sound?
Jack Sparrow: Or you could surrender.

That is so similar to the statement by near death experiencer Dr. George Ritchie that I just posted in the last reply.....#192.

 

[Der Alte]

I tend to agree.
1 Jo 5 mentions a sin that leads to death.

I would say this death is speaking of the 2nd death as mentioned in Revelation, as everyone dies once, whether they comitted this particular sin or not. IMHO.

1Jo 5:16
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death.
There is sin leading to death.
I do not say that he should pray about that.

But 1 Jo 5:16 does not say "second death" and there is no verse in the entire NT which describes a second death. People and beings are thrown into the lake of fire but the scripture never says "then they die." Counter argument: "But people in a lake of fire will be burned to a crisp." Not necessarily, Moses saw a bush burning but it was not consumed and in Daniel king Nebuchadnezzar threw three Hebrew slaves into a furnace seven times hpotter than normal but they were not burned to a crisp. They were not harmed at all. So if God wants to make "eternal punishment" mean eternity in the lake o fire He can make it happen.

 

[seeingeyes]

So if God wants to make "eternal punishment" mean eternity in the lake o fire He can make it happen.

So the question, then, is: Does God want to?

 

[he-man]

But 1 Jo 5:16 does not say "second death" and there is no verse in the entire NT which describes a second death. People and beings are thrown into the lake of fire but the scripture never says "then they die."

Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Psa 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, and let them be silent in the grave.

Counter argument: "But people in a lake of fire will be burned to a crisp." and in Daniel king Nebuchadnezzar threw three Hebrew slaves into a furnace seven times hpotter than normal but they were not burned to a crisp. They were not harmed at all.

"The Song of Three Children", is an addition to the Book of Daniel is an apocrayphal addition of 67 verses inserted after 3:23. Codex B has the heading "The Prayer of Azariah" and "Hymn of the Three". The hymn is unlikely in such a situation. It is more lke a litany, and seems to be modeled after Ps 136.
Both are unauthentic amplifications of the story in canonical Dan, that are meant to fill out the account of the miraculous deliverance of three Hebrews by giving the prayer which one of them offered, beeching God for deliverance. It is entirely unknown who composed them.
New Standard Bible Dictionary Page 168

Not necessarily, Moses saw a bush burning but it was not consumed So if God wants to make "eternal punishment" mean eternity in the lake o fire He can make it happen

Psa 31:18 Let the lying lips be put to silence; which speak grievous things proudly and contemptuously against the righteous.

God, Himself is a consuming fire so that argument is null and void. The name Jehovah is revealed to Moses and its significance at the Bush. New Standard Bible Dictionary Page 250.
Exo 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

Ps 94:17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.

Ps 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

1Sa 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

 

[Der Alte]

So the question, then, is: Does God want to?

Let me rephrase, the unrighteous can be kept consciously aware in the lake of fire if God chooses to. The Jews before and during the time of Jesus believed that God did choose to. The ECF also believed so. And there is ample scriptural evidence that it is so. Matt 3:12; 5:13, 20, 29,-30; 7:13-14; 21-23; 8:12; 10:33, 39-42; 13:49-50; 18:3-4, 8-9, 21:43; 22:2-14; 23:13, 15; 25:11-12, 41, 46; Mark 9:43-48; 10:15; Lk 9:62; 12:45-46; 13:23-24; Luke 16:22-28; 18:17; John 3:3, 5, 18; 15:6. Rev 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8

 

[seeingeyes]

Let me rephrase, the unrighteous can be kept consciously aware in the lake of fire if God chooses to. The Jews before and during the time of Jesus believed that God did choose to. The ECF also believed so. And there is ample scriptural evidence that it is so. Matt 3:12; 5:13, 20, 29,-30; 7:13-14; 21-23; 8:12; 10:33, 39-42; 13:49-50; 18:3-4, 8-9, 21:43; 22:2-14; 23:13, 15; 25:11-12, 41, 46; Mark 9:43-48; 10:15; Lk 9:62; 12:45-46; 13:23-24; Luke 16:22-28; 18:17; John 3:3, 5, 18; 15:6. Rev 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8

Do you believe that God did choose to?

 

[Der Alte]

Do you believe that God did choose to?

The scriptural evidence shows that he did.

 

[he-man]

Let me rephrase, the unrighteous can be kept consciously aware in the lake of fire if God chooses to. The Jews before and during the time of Jesus believed that God did choose to. The ECF also believed so. And there is ample scriptural evidence that it is so. Matt 3:12; 5:13, 20, 29,-30; 7:13-14; 21-23; 8:12; 10:33, 39-42; 13:49-50; 18:3-4, 8-9, 21:43; 22:2-14; 23:13, 15; 25:11-12, 41, 46; Mark 9:43-48; 10:15; Lk 9:62; 12:45-46; 13:23-24; Luke 16:22-28; 18:17; John 3:3, 5, 18; 15:6. Rev 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8

Repeating the same the same verses over and over does not change what they say.
but now having become dead again by apostasy, and so hopelessly dead. There is a climax. Not only without leaves, like trees in late autumn, but without fruit: not only so, but dead twice; and to crown all, “plucked up by the roots. [RWP]

This is what the Psalmist says God will do to his enemies: Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.
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Those who die without God are forever silent in the grave, but we who have our God shall live forever more!

Ps 94:23 And he shall bring upon them their own iniquity, and shall cut them off in their own wickedness; yea, the LORD our God shall cut them off.

Ps 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
18 But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and for evermore. Praise the LORD.

Ps 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead arise and praise thee? Selah.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, [in Christ] and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
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Ps 94:17 Unless the LORD had been my help, my soul had almost dwelt in silence.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Ps 140:9 As for the head of those that compass me about, let the mischief of their own lips cover them.
10 Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire; into deep pits, that they rise not up again.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1Sa 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Pro 14:32 The wicked is driven away in his wickedness: but the righteous hath hope in his death.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall vexed [go up as smoke] day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

2Th 1:9 who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might,


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