Is Hell Really Eternal? (2)

[seeingeyes]

jewish tradition started with 7 names of hell (gehenna), then migrated to 7 levels of Hell. In level of torment, one being not too bad and level 7 being really bad. Not saying that they are correct. But they too would disagree in your view that: Hell is not "fitted to a certain place". Do you have any references for your views, or is it just a hunch?

secondly, Heaven is a "certain place" , why then would Hell be different?

In a nutshell, here's my thinking: Jesus alluded to hell in a few different ways (as evidenced by the fact that everyone, no matter what their view of hell, can quote Jesus directly for support of their view). What that says to me is that Jesus was speaking to people within their understanding rather than trying to lay out a topography of hell.

And secondly, the kingdom of heaven is spoken of in a few different ways (as a place, as a system, as a state of heart). It has a "here now" quality and a "there then" quality. The same is true for hell. (Though I didn't recognize that until I was standing in it.)

 

[createdtoworship]

In a nutshell, here's my thinking: Jesus alluded to hell in a few different ways (as evidenced by the fact that everyone, no matter what their view of hell, can quote Jesus directly for support of their view).

first of all I would like to thank you for the response. SEcondly I would also like to point out some problems I have seen in your argument. Namely that everyone cannot quote accurately the sayings of Jesus to support their view. Pretexting, quoting out of context, or outright misquotes often follow said quotations. It is good to study Jewish tradition regarding Hell, to get your bearings, and then also to simply study the Bible without any foreign texts to poison the purity of the text. When simply read out loud the Bible plainly declares eternal hell, and many straight out of the words of Christ himself. See list below.

What that says to me is that Jesus was speaking to people within their understanding rather than trying to lay out a topography of hell.

yes and no. Jesus was alluding to something his audience was familiar with. But at the same time it was in fact a topography. Let me explain:
The concept of “hell” [Gehenna] is translated the way it is because, as physical beings, we can only relate to concepts after they have been clothed in physical analo-giles. 55 -Raphael, Simcha Paull; Raphael, Simcha Paull (2009). Jewish Views of the Afterlife . Rowman & Littlefield Publishers. Kindle Edition.


basically what a prominent Jewish authority states is that they use analogies from existing conditions to show that these things exist. In other words how to you describe a spiritual place without using physical locale? He was saying, hey you know the valley of hinnom that you hate? Yeah well that is like what Hell is. In otherwords it’s hard to explain for example, flying purple people eaters if you have never such things before. I would have to use alalogies and descriptors of things you DO know. The valley of hinnom existed in ancient Judaism. So Jesus basically said, “Hey- that valley that you fear? Well it’s real, and it’s eternal, and anyone who rejects me goes there forever!”. Do you understand what I mean?

And secondly, the kingdom of heaven is spoken of in a few different ways (as a place, as a system, as a state of heart). It has a "here now" quality and a "there then" quality. The same is true for hell. (Though I didn't recognize that until I was standing in it.)

114. THE "KINGDOM OF HEAVEN"
AND
THE "KINGDOM OF GOD".- by Bullinger:



We have seen in Ap. 112 that the word "kingdom", like the Greek basileia, has regard to sovereignty rather than territory, and to the sphere of its exercise rather than to its extent. Using the word "kingdom" in this sense, and in that which is conveyed in its English termination "dom", which is short for dominion, we note that the former expression, "the Kingdom of heaven", occurs only in Matthew, where we find it thirty-two times (*1).

But in the parallel passages in the other Gospels we find, instead, the expression "the Kingdom of God" (e.g. cp. Matt. 11:11 with Luke 7:28). The explanation of this seeming difference is that the Lord spoke in Aramaic; certainly not in the Greek of the Gospel documents. See Ap. 94. III.

Now "heaven" is frequently used by the Figure Metonymy (of the Subject), Ap. 6 for God Himself, Whose dwelling is there. See Ps. 73:9. Dan. 4:26, 29. 2Chron. 32:20. Matt. 21:25. Luke 15:21 ("I have sinned against heaven" is thus contrasted with the words "and in thy sight"). John 3:27.

Our suggestion is that in all the passages where the respective expressions occur, identical words were spoken by the Lord, "the Kingdom of heaven"; but when it came to putting them into Greek, Matthew was Divinely guided to retain the figure of speech literally ("heaven"), so as to be in keeping with the special character, design, and scope of his Gospel (see Ap. 96); while, in the other Gospels, the figure was translated as being what it also meant, "the Kingdom of God".
Thus, while the same in a general sense, the two expressions are to be distinguished in their meaning and in their interpretation, as follows :--


The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of HEAVEN

Has Messiah for its King;
It is from heaven; and under the heavens upon the earth;
It is limited in its scope;
It is political in its sphere;
It is Jewish and exclusive in its character;
It is national in its aspect;
It is the special subject of Old Testament prophecy;
And it is dispensational in its duration.


The Kingdom (or Sovereignty) of GOD

Has God for its Ruler;
It is in heaven, over the earth;
It is unlimited in its scope;
It is moral and spiritual in its sphere;
It is inclusive in its character (embracing the natural and spiritual seeds of Abraham, "the heavenly calling", and the "Church" of the Mystery). Hence,
It is universal in its aspect;
It is (in its wider aspect) the subject of New Testament revelation;
And will be eternal in its duration.





(*1) The Kingdom of God occurs only five times in Matt. (6:33; 12:28; 19:24; 21:31, 43).

above from Bullingers companion Bible appendix found online at :

The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God - Appendix to the Companion Bible

I AM NOT SURE I AGREE FULLY WITH THE HYPERDISPENSATIONALIST VIEW OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, BUT IT IS GOOD FOR DISCUSSION
---------

The same is true for hell. (Though I didn't recognize that until I was standing in it.)

many verses speak of the literalness of eternal hell:

1. Psalm 9:17.
“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”
2. Job 21:30.
“That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.”
3. Proverbs 15:11.
“Hell and destruction are before the Lord: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?”
4. Proverbs 15:24.
“The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.”
5. Proverbs 27:20.
“Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.”
6. Isaiah 5:14.
“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall
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descend into it.”
7. Isaiah 14:9.
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.”
8. Isaiah 28:15.
The reasoning of man.
“Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge (i.e. judgment) shall pass through, it shall not come unto us.”
Now God answers their reasoning, (Isaiah 28:18) “And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.”
Isn't this characteristic of the cults who make a covenant with Hell by reasoning away its existence, but at the judgment they will be swept away into the reality of God's Word concerning Hell.
9. Isaiah 66:24.
“And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; And they (lost) shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
10. Psalm 11:6.
“Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.”
11. Ezekiel 31:16.
“I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him (Assyria) down to hell with them (lost) that descend into the pit.” (“sheol”)
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12. Ezekiel 32:27.
“. the uncircumcised which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war.”
13. Luke 16:23,24.
“And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments,.And he cried and said. send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.”
If this man would only have lifted up his eyes to Christ on earth, he would not be lifting them up in Hell. I hope, Dear Reader, that if you are not saved, you will right now trust Jesus Christ as your Savior, before it is too late.
14. 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9.
“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.”
15. 2 Peter 2:9.
“The Lord knoweth how to. reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.”
16. Revelation 14:11.
“And the smoke of their (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
17. Matthew 25:30.
“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (unbearable pain).
18. Matthew 25:41.
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
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19. Revelation 20:15.
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
20. Revelation 21:8.
“But the fearful and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
What a terrifying account concerning the lost. God is a just God, and His judgment upon the sinner is more than justified. But another attribute of God is His love for the sinner. God, therefore, provided a substitute for you and I. The Lord Jesus Christ took on human flesh and made the payment for the sins of the world. This is the only provision God made for you and I. We have just viewed God's judgment for the sinner; now, let us view God's judgment on Christ as our provision for sin.

 

[createdtoworship]

Is Hell Forever? (definition of aion, aionion)
Universalists and Jehovah's witnesses state that Hell is not eternal because aion means age not forever. Many state that because Aion can mean temporary period of time in greek and not forever that aion ALWAYS means temporary! Wrong!

if aion means temporary then matthew 25:46 states that eternal life is only temporary because it's the same word for both.

Secondly,

If and only If aion means temporary there would be aspects of God that would be temporary because the same greek word is used for God (aion)



If and only if, "aion" is temporary then the following assumptions must be true

The glory of God is temporary (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, Revelation 22:5, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, Galatians 1:5, Romans 1:23 and Philippians 4:20)

The righteousness of God is also temporary, which is implying that God is a sinner! (contradicts: 1 Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1 Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, John 12:34, John 14:16 and 2Corinthians 9:9)

God lives only temporarily, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)

God's Kingdom is temporary, (contradicts: Revelation 22:5, Daniel 7:18, Jude 1:25, Matthew 6:13, and Ephesians 1:21)

God is only wise temporarily, God is apparently unwise later on. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, Romans 16:27 and Jude 1:25)

God is incorruptible temporarily, (contradicts: 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, 2Corinthians 9:9 and Romans 1:23)
God is not immortal, God eventually dies. (contradicts: 1Timothy 1:17, 1Timothy 6:16, 1Peter 1:23, Jude 1:25, Revelation 10:6, and Matthew 6:13)

God abide's only temporarily, (contradicts: 1Peter 1:23, John 12:34 and John 14:16)


VERSE LIST
1Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal[aion], immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
1Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.
Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they (his servants---Rev. 22:3) shall reign for ever[aion] and ever[aion].
Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible(1 Cor. 15:52), by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever[aion].
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever[aion]. Amen.
Revelation 10:6 "And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are,..."
1John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever[aion].
Matthew 6:13 "...For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever[aion]. Amen."
John 12:34 "...that Christ abideth for ever[aion]:..."
John 14:16 "...the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever[aion];..."
Romans 1:23 "...And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God..."
Romans 1:25 "...the Creator, who is blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 9:5 "... Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever[aion]. Amen."
Romans 16:27 "To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever[aion]..."
2Corinthians 9:9 "...his righteousness remaineth for ever[aion]."
Galatians 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.
Ephesians 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Philippians 4:20 Now unto God and our Father [be] glory for ever[aion] and ever[aion]. Amen.

ABOVE SECTION BY DON HEWEY OF Temporarily Disabled

DEFINITION OF "aionion" IN OUR VIEW OF HELL

BELOW SECTION BY Matt Slick of carm.org

Universalism is the teaching that God will ultimately bring all people, in all times, and all places to a state of reconciliation with Him. In other words, everyone who ever lived will be saved. Consequently, universalism cannot allow the possibility of an eternal hell as a realistic biblical teaching.

To get around the problem of the English Bibles translating Greek words into "eternal," "forever," and forevermore" when describing fire (Matt. 18:8) or torment (Rev. 20:10), the universalists go to the Greek. The Greek word that is translated into eternal is greek aionion"aionion." It comes from the Greek root "aion" meaning "age." This fact combined with the various uses of Greek words derived from the root "aion," are what the universalists use to attempt to show that "aionion" does not always mean "eternal" but can refer to a finite period of time.

The truth is, they are right. It can be translated into a temporal sense as it is in Rom. 16:25: "Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages (aionios1) past." But the reason it is translated that way is because of context, and that is extremely important. Context determines meaning, as you will see later.

With the claim that "aionion" can be translated into something temporal and that its root means "age," the universalist then says that any reference to "eternal fire," "eternal torment," or "eternal punishment" is not really eternal. Instead of "eternal torment," it is "aionion torment." Instead of "eternal punishment," it is "aionion punishment." That way, to the universalist, there is no eternal hell, no eternal punishment, and no eternal damnation. Everyone will be saved.

This approach by the Universalists can be confusing to someone who doesn't understand Greek, and that is part of the reason that Universalism has followers. It is true that the root "aion" means age. But just because a root means age does not mean that every word derived from that root means a limited duration of time. For example, consider this verse that is speaking about God:

who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen, (1 Tim. 6:16)

The context is obviously dealing with God's eternal nature. The word in Greek for "immortality" is "athanatos." The Greek word for death is "thanatos." The "a" in front of the word is the negator -- without, non, etc. It means that God is deathless; hence, immortal. This is an eternal quality of God. Likewise, the verse states that God has eternal dominion. The word for "eternal" is "aionios" which is derived from the Greek root "aion" which means age. But, God is not immortal for only an "age," nor is His dominion temporal. The word "eternal" is absolutely the best way to translate the Greek "aionion" because God is immortal and eternal. Therefore, it would be wrong to translate the verse by stating that God has "aionion" dominion. Rather, He has eternal dominion.
How is "aionion" used in the New Testament?

The following two sections are verses that contain the word "aionion" which is translated as "eternal." Notice how using the word "eternal" in the first group is no problem. But, it is the second group with which the Universalists object. Nevertheless, the same word is used in both. See for yourself.

John 6:47, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionion) life.
John 10:28, "and I give eternal (aionion) life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand."
Acts 13:48, "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal (aionion) life believed."
Romans 2:7, " to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal (aionion) life."
Romans 5:21, "that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal (aionion) life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Rom. 16:26, " but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal (aionion) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith."
Gal. 6:8, "For the one who sows to his own flesh shall from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit shall from the Spirit reap eternal (aionion) life."
1 Tim. 6:16, "who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionion) dominion! Amen."
1 John 1:2, "and the life was manifested, and we have seen and bear witness and proclaim to you the eternal (aionion) life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us"
1 John 5:11, "And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal (aionion) life, and this life is in His Son."

The following set of scriptures divulge the nature of eternal damnation.

Matt. 18:8, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal (aionion) fire.
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionion) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;"
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal (aionion) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionion) life."
Mark 3:29, "but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal (aionion) sin."
Mark 10:30, "but that he shall receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life.
Luke 18:30, "who shall not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal (aionion) life."
2 Thess. 1:9, "And these will pay the penalty of eternal (aionion) destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,"
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal (aionion) fire."

It should be quite obvious that there is an eternal punishment and that universalism is nothing more than a hopeful wish. The Universalists are not justified in picking and choosing the meaning of a word based upon their interpretations of "aion" that suits them and depending on which verse is used.

 

[seeingeyes]

first of all I would like to thank you for the response. SEcondly I would also like to point out some problems I have seen in your argument. Namely that everyone cannot quote accurately the sayings of Jesus to support their view. Pretexting, quoting out of context, or outright misquotes often follow said quotations. It is good to study Jewish tradition regarding Hell, to get your bearings, and then also to simply study the Bible without any foreign texts to poison the purity of the text. When simply read out loud the Bible plainly declares eternal hell, and many straight out of the words of Christ himself. See list below.

Where does Mark 9:49 fit into your view of hell?

yes and no. Jesus was alluding to something his audience was familiar with. But at the same time it was in fact a topography. Let me explain:
The concept of “hell” [Gehenna] is translated the way it is because, as physical beings, we can only relate to concepts after they have been clothed in physical analo-giles. 55 -Raphael, Simcha Paull; Raphael, Simcha Paull (2009). Jewish Views of the Afterlife . Rowman & Littlefield Publishers. Kindle Edition.

I meant that he was not trying to teach something new about hell, only recalibrating who was in danger of experiencing it.

basically what a prominent Jewish authority states is that they use analogies from existing conditions to show that these things exist. In other words how to you describe a spiritual place without using physical locale? He was saying, hey you know the valley of hinnom that you hate? Yeah well that is like what Hell is. In otherwords it’s hard to explain for example, flying purple people eaters if you have never such things before. I would have to use alalogies and descriptors of things you DO know. The valley of hinnom existed in ancient Judaism. So Jesus basically said, “Hey- that valley that you fear? Well it’s real, and it’s eternal, and anyone who rejects me goes there forever!”. Do you understand what I mean?

Yes, Jesus spoke in analogies and parables most of the time. The kingdom of heaven is not in a treasure box somewhere in a field, and I'm pretty sure that no one believes that the damned will be chatting up Abraham.

I do not agree that Jesus was saying, "You know that hell place you've been talking about? Well it's even worse than you thought!"

114. THE "KINGDOM OF HEAVEN"
AND
THE "KINGDOM OF GOD".- by Bullinger:

The kingdom of heaven is both within and without (I assume you know the verses ). Hell is the same. If hell were a future place or state to avoid, then how could the Pharisees be "children of hell"? There is a bigger concept at play in both heaven and hell than "where will you go when you die".

many verses speak of the literalness of eternal hell:

1. Psalm 9:17.
“The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.”
2. Job 21:30.
“That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.”
3. Proverbs 15:11.
“Hell and destruction are before the Lord: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?”
4. Proverbs 15:24.
“The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.”
5. Proverbs 27:20.
“Hell and destruction are never full; so the eyes of man are never satisfied.”
6. Isaiah 5:14.
“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall
66
descend into it.”
7. Isaiah 14:9.
Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.”
8. Isaiah 28:15.
The reasoning of man.
“Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge (i.e. judgment) shall pass through, it shall not come unto us.”
Now God answers their reasoning, (Isaiah 28:18) “And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.”
Isn't this characteristic of the cults who make a covenant with Hell by reasoning away its existence, but at the judgment they will be swept away into the reality of God's Word concerning Hell.
9. Isaiah 66:24.
“And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; And they (lost) shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.”
10. Psalm 11:6.
“Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.”
11. Ezekiel 31:16.
“I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him (Assyria) down to hell with them (lost) that descend into the pit.” (“sheol”)
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12. Ezekiel 32:27.
“. the uncircumcised which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war.”
13. Luke 16:23,24.
“And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments,.And he cried and said. send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame.”
If this man would only have lifted up his eyes to Christ on earth, he would not be lifting them up in Hell. I hope, Dear Reader, that if you are not saved, you will right now trust Jesus Christ as your Savior, before it is too late.
14. 2 Thessalonians 1:8,9.
“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.”
15. 2 Peter 2:9.
“The Lord knoweth how to. reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished.”
16. Revelation 14:11.
“And the smoke of their (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
17. Matthew 25:30.
“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (unbearable pain).
18. Matthew 25:41.
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
68
19. Revelation 20:15.
“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
20. Revelation 21:8.
“But the fearful and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
What a terrifying account concerning the lost. God is a just God, and His judgment upon the sinner is more than justified. But another attribute of God is His love for the sinner. God, therefore, provided a substitute for you and I. The Lord Jesus Christ took on human flesh and made the payment for the sins of the world. This is the only provision God made for you and I. We have just viewed God's judgment for the sinner; now, let us view God's judgment on Christ as our provision for sin.

None of these verses speak to the "literalness of hell". You assume first that they are "literal" and then put them in a stack, out of context, to demonstrate your point (which was, I believe, that people mistakenly use verses out of context to demonstrate their point.)

The problem is not so much "literal" vs "figurative". That's a whole mess that the scholars can argue about. The problem is the implications of each belief.

What we believe about hell is a direct reflection of what we believe about God. The fire is not "eternal" because it burns for an infinite number of years, it is "eternal" because it is part and parcel with our God.

 

[createdtoworship]

Where does Mark 9:49 fit into your view of hell?
...
None of these verses speak to the "literalness of hell". You assume first that they are "literal" and then put them in a stack, out of context, to demonstrate your point (which was, I believe, that people mistakenly use verses out of context to demonstrate their point.)

there are a few misconceptions you have.

first of all nothing in the universe ceases to exist. As I have stated ad naseum in this thread already. And of which no rebuttal has yet been given.

secondly, in the above quote of the post you contradict yourself. First you state a verse for your view, then you state that the Bible is not literal.

First things first, where did you get your view of the Bible from?

Please don't tell me that your view of hell molded your whole view of theology, soteriology, ecclesiology, israelogy, etc?

In conclusion, when you state the Bible as not literal- you shoot yourself in the foot when you expect people to take your verses, namely Mark 9:49 literally!

thanks for the comment

 

[seeingeyes]

there are a few misconceptions you have.

first of all nothing in the universe ceases to exist. As I have stated ad naseum in this thread already. And of which no rebuttal has yet been given.

That cannot be demonstrated from the scriptures. On the contrary, God alone is eternal. So this is an assumption that you come to the text with.

secondly, in the above quote of the post you contradict yourself. First you state a verse for your view, then you state that the Bible is not literal.

No contradiction there. You already said that Jesus spoke in analogies. Hell is not literally a valley in Israel somewhere. The contradiction is yours.

First things first, where did you get your view of the Bible from?

That's a long story.

Please don't tell me that your view of hell molded your whole view of theology, soteriology, ecclesiology, israelogy, etc?

Yes, they are all inextricably linked.

In conclusion, when you state the Bible as not literal- you shoot yourself in the foot when you expect people to take your verses, namely Mark 9:49 literally!

thanks for the comment

I never asked whether you believed that Mark 9:49 is literal, I asked where it fits into your theology.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by gradyll

first of all I would like to thank you for the response. SEcondly I would also like to point out some problems I have seen in your argument. Namely that everyone cannot quote accurately the sayings of Jesus to support their view. Pretexting, quoting out of context, or outright misquotes often follow said quotations. It is good to study Jewish tradition regarding Hell, to get your bearings, and then also to simply study the Bible without any foreign texts to poison the purity of the text. When simply read out loud the Bible plainly declares eternal hell, and many straight out of the words of Christ himself. See list below.
​

Where does Mark 9:49 fit into your view of hell?

What we believe about hell is a direct reflection of what we believe about God. The fire is not "eternal" because it burns for an infinite number of years, it is "eternal" because it is part and parcel with our God.

Which reminds me, I gotta get some more salt....

Mark 9:49
For all to-fire/puri <4442> shall be being salted/alisqhsetai <233> (5701),
and every sacrifice to salt/ali <251> shall be being salted/alisqhsetai <233> (5701).

Colossians 4:6
your word always in grace--with salt being seasoned--to know how it behoveth you to answer each one.
Reve 14:10
And he is drinking out of the wine of the fury of the God, of the having been blended undiluted in the drink-cup of the wrath of Him.
And he shall be being tormented in fire/puri <4442> and sulfur/qeiw <2303> before the holy messengers, and before the lamb.


.

 

[seeingeyes]

Which reminds me, I gotta get some more salt....


.

Well, you know where you can go.



(Sorry, bro. I literally could not resist the set up! )

 

[createdtoworship]

That cannot be demonstrated from the scriptures. On the contrary, God alone is eternal. So this is an assumption that you come to the text with.


No contradiction there. You already said that Jesus spoke in analogies. Hell is not literally a valley in Israel somewhere. The contradiction is yours.

That's a long story.


Yes, they are all inextricably linked.



I never asked whether you believed that Mark 9:49 is literal, I asked where it fits into your theology.

again you have to explain why you take exception with the literalness of the Bible and break a normal hermeneutic for a secondary one. If you have examples of why you break these laws of interpretation simply for your theological bends, please explain.

secondary, if Heaven is eternal due to one act of love by Christ, why would Hell not be eternal due to one act of disobedience in adam?

you as an annihilationist are forced to say that Hell is temporary, and that heaven is eternal. That would not be fair.

thirdly, you as an annihilationist are forced to say that Jesus ceased to exist for three days, then reinvented a new soul and a new body at the resurrection. He could not have the same one because it ceased to exist. Therefore you must too accept Christ was a different person, and not the same Christ that suffered the first time. Hence the crucifixion would be useless and the Resurrection a hoax.

I find this hard to believe.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[seeingeyes]

again you have to explain why you take exception with the literalness of the Bible and break a normal hermeneutic for a secondary one. If you have examples of why you break these laws of interpretation simply for your theological bends, please explain.

I already have. Why is a "literal" interpretation the default interpretation when we know that the son of God teaches in parables and analogies?

secondary, if Heaven is eternal due to one act of love by Christ, why would Hell not be eternal due to one act of disobedience in adam?

You have reduced heaven and hell to "places we go when we die" in order to ask that question.

you as an annihilationist are forced to say that Hell is temporary, and that heaven is eternal. That would not be fair.

thirdly, you as an annihilationist are forced to say that Jesus ceased to exist for three days, then reinvented a new soul and a new body at the resurrection. He could not have the same one because it ceased to exist. Therefore you must too accept Christ was a different person, and not the same Christ that suffered the first time. Hence the crucifixion would be useless and the Resurrection a hoax.

I find this hard to believe.

Thank you for the reply.

I'm not an annihilationist...

 

[createdtoworship]

I already have. Why is a "literal" interpretation the default interpretation when we know that the son of God teaches in parables and analogies?

I follow the golden rule of interpretation* and try to apply hermeneutics*

below resources from: Tony Garland hosted by Biblestudytools.com

"The practice of interpretation is known as hermeneutics*.
The word hermeneutics is ultimately derived from Hermes the Greek god who brought the messages of the gods to the mortals, and was the god of science, invention, eloquence, speech, writing, and art. As a theological discipline hermeneutics is the science of the correct interpretation of the Bible." Our position is that the book of Revelation is to be interpreted normally, like any other writing, and especially like the rest of the Scriptures. We part company here from those who seek to classify the book as being representative of the apocalyptic genre so they can apply a mystical or spiritual &#8220;spin&#8221; to the text and make it mean all manner of things.
D.L. Cooper gives a reasonable definition of normal interpretation in his Golden Rule of Interpretation*:
When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense, therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.&#8212;The Golden Rule of Interpretation, D.L. Cooper3
The rule includes the important phrase, studied in the light of related passages. This is the biblical equivalent of a &#8220;safety net.&#8221; In the same way that trapeze artists performing on the high-wire are protected by a net below which catches them in the event of a fall, comparing Scripture with Scripture provides a doctrinal &#8220;safety net&#8221; to keep the interpreter from &#8220;falling&#8221; into an inconsistent understanding or interpretation. This principle is also known as the ...Systematic Theology: the systematic study of the Scriptures across all the books of the Bible to arrive at a self-consistent understanding of any particular topic. This principle is founded upon the inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture. That the inspired books, being ultimately the work of the Holy Spirit (2Pe. 2Pe. 1:19-21), are without error and consistent in their teaching from Genesis Gen. 1:1 through Revelation Rev. 22:21+. When we encounter what seems to be an inconsistency (commonly referred to as a &#8220;Bible Difficulty&#8221, we must assume that the problem is one of our own understanding and not God&#8217;s Word. The experienced student of the Word will recognize how frequently what appeared to be contradictory turned out, upon further insight, study, and illumination, to be by design.4 "

7.2. The Art and Science of Interpretation Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

a commentary book on revelation by tony garland hosted on biblestudytools.com, Copyright © 2004 by Tony Garland.

You have reduced heaven and hell to "places we go when we die" in order to ask that question.

yes , yes I do. They are in fact places one goes upon death.

I'm not an annihilationist...

My mistake, however...If you don't believe in eternal Hell, and you don't believe one is annihilated upon death, what is there left? (granted there are some offshoots of annihilation, I assume you have not yet researched so far as to call yourself one of those) ...Am I correct?

 

[seeingeyes]

below resources from: Biblestudytools.com

"The practice of interpretation is known as hermeneutics.
The word hermeneutics is ultimately derived from Hermes the Greek god who brought the messages of the gods to the mortals, and was the god of science, invention, eloquence, speech, writing, and art. As a theological discipline hermeneutics is the science of the correct interpretation of the Bible." Our position is that the book of Revelation is to be interpreted normally, like any other writing, and especially like the rest of the Scriptures. We part company here from those who seek to classify the book as being representative of the apocalyptic genre so they can apply a mystical or spiritual “spin” to the text and make it mean all manner of things.
D.L. Cooper gives a reasonable definition of normal interpretation in his Golden Rule of Interpretation:
When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense, therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.—The Golden Rule of Interpretation, D.L. Cooper3

Ok. With this in mind as your hermeneutic, what do you make of Mark 9:49?

The rule includes the important phrase, studied in the light of related passages. This is the biblical equivalent of a “safety net.” In the same way that trapeze artists performing on the high-wire are protected by a net below which catches them in the event of a fall, comparing Scripture with Scripture provides a doctrinal “safety net” to keep the interpreter from “falling” into an inconsistent understanding or interpretation. This principle is also known as the Analogy of Scripture or Systematic Theology: the systematic study of the Scriptures across all the books of the Bible to arrive at a self-consistent understanding of any particular topic. This principle is founded upon the inerrancy and inspiration of Scripture. That the inspired books, being ultimately the work of the Holy Spirit (2Pe. 2Pe. 1:19-21), are without error and consistent in their teaching from Genesis Gen. 1:1 through Revelation Rev. 22:21+. When we encounter what seems to be an inconsistency (commonly referred to as a “Bible Difficulty”), we must assume that the problem is one of our own understanding and not God’s Word. The experienced student of the Word will recognize how frequently what appeared to be contradictory turned out, upon further insight, study, and illumination, to be by design.4 "

7.2. The Art and Science of Interpretation Commentary - A Testimony of Jesus Christ

a commentary book on revelation by tony garland hosted on biblestudytools.com, Copyright © 2004 by Tony Garland.

I don't believe in safety nets.

yes , yes I do. They are in fact places one goes upon death.

Is that all that they are?

My mistake, however...If you don't believe in eternal Hell, and you don't believe one is annihilated upon death, what is there left? (granted there are some offshoots of annihilation, I assume you have not yet researched so far as to call yourself one of those) ...Am I correct?

I'm not sure what difference it makes. You'll have to make the case for your beliefs without the luxury of disproving mine.

 

[createdtoworship]

I'm not sure what difference it makes. You'll have to make the case for your beliefs without the luxury of disproving mine.

well, with this I conclude our discussion. Perhaps someone else on this forum will have more patience than myself. But this type of dialogue I don't put up with. If you can't label yourself a position, and are only here to criticize others, then you can do it to someone else. Thank you for your time.

 

[seeingeyes]

well, with this I conclude our discussion. Perhaps someone else on this forum will have more patience than myself. But this type of dialogue I don't put up with. If you can't label yourself a position, and are only here to criticize others, then you can do it to someone else. Thank you for your time.

Where did I criticize you? If saying that you shouldn't need to know my view in order to demonstrate your own is frustrating to you, then what can I say? Tell me it's not true. :shrug:

 

[createdtoworship]

Where did I criticize you? If saying that you shouldn't need to know my view in order to demonstrate your own is frustrating to you, then what can I say? Tell me it's not true. :shrug:

If you are in a christian forum not to express your own views but only to criticize, then I can honestly ask....why are you here? I am not trying to be rude, I was just trying to get a grasp at where you are at.

Note: here are some of your criticisms that some of my views are not Biblical:

That cannot be demonstrated from the scriptures.

that was just on this page, there are others.

 

[Der Alte]

Where does Mark 9:49 fit into your view of hell?

Where does it fit into yours? If you have a position relative to this verse please state it then we can discuss any differences. But may I suggest you read Lev 2:13 as to the meaning.

I meant that he was not trying to teach something new about hell, only recalibrating who was in danger of experiencing it.

The Jews, in Israel before and during the time of Jesus believed in a place of eternal, unending, fiery torment and they called it both Gehinnom/Gehenna and Sheol. When Jesus taught about,

•"Eternal punishment, Mt 25:46"
•"the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mk 9:43-48" and
•"cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Mt 13:42, 50
• “better for [a person who offends a little one] that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Mt 18:6
• “it had been good for [the one who betrays Jesus] if he had not been born.” Mat 26:24​

These teachings supported and sanctioned the existing Jewish view of eternal hell. Jesus was born in and grew to maturity in 1st century Israel. He knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong Jesus would have corrected them. He did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell was correct.

Yes, Jesus spoke in analogies and parables most of the time. The kingdom of heaven is not in a treasure box somewhere in a field, and I'm pretty sure that no one believes that the damned will be chatting up Abraham.

The fact that figures of speech are used in the Bible is not license to willy-nilly make anything, everything figurative. The phrase "like unto" in the scripture you alluded to clearly identifies it as figurative.

I do not agree that Jesus was saying, "You know that hell place you've been talking about? Well it's even worse than you thought!"

See my comment above about the Jewish belief in hell.

The kingdom of heaven is both within and without (I assume you know the verses ). Hell is the same. If hell were a future place or state to avoid, then how could the Pharisees be "children of hell"? There is a bigger concept at play in both heaven and hell than "where will you go when you die".

That words can be and are used figuratively does not negate the literal. Jesus actually existed, doors actually exist but Jesus was not literally a door.

None of these verses speak to the "literalness of hell". You assume first that they are "literal" and then put them in a stack, out of context, to demonstrate your point (which was, I believe, that people mistakenly use verses out of context to demonstrate their point.)

The literal not figurative interpretation should first be sought and discounted only if the literla is illogical.

The problem is not so much "literal" vs "figurative". That's a whole mess that the scholars can argue about. The problem is the implications of each belief.

What we believe about hell is a direct reflection of what we believe about God. The fire is not "eternal" because it burns for an infinite number of years, it is "eternal" because it is part and parcel with our God.

Right let's impose our finite human likes/dislkes, sensibilities,etc. on God. If we like something then God must like it too. If we dislike something then God must dislike it too. If we think something is unfair, then God must think it is unfair too, etc., etc., etc.

 

[seeingeyes]

If you are in a christian forum not to express your own views but only to criticize, then I can honestly ask....why are you here? I am not trying to be rude, I was just trying to get a grasp at where you are at.

I don't argue my view just because I had to walk though hell to get to it. If I'm right or wrong, the Lord will determine...I don't see a need to sell a certain view. That's all.

But I do think that it is paramount for us (yes, including myself) to examine the implications of our views on hell which certainly affect how we view (and treat) God as well as others.

That is why I ask questions. I did not mean to offend, so I apologize if my tone was confrontational. (It can be hard to type the right tone! )

Note: here are some of your criticisms that some of my views are not Biblical:

That cannot be demonstrated from the scriptures.

that was just on this page, there are others.

Saying that something cannot be demonstrated from the scriptures is not biblical? Well, ok, you may have a case. Let me try again.

Jesus said: "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

Which demonstrates that it is possible to know the scriptures backwards and forwards and still miss the Messiah. It was true then, and it's true now.

 

[seeingeyes]

Where does it fit into yours? If you have a position relative to this verse please state it then we can discuss any differences. But may I suggest you read Lev 2:13 as to the meaning.

In context, Mark 9:49 states that all will be salted with the fire of hell. I think you are right that Lev 2:13 is related. We are to be living sacrifices.

But if hell is solely a place over there or a later state that only the unsaved experience, then Mark 9:49 cannot be accurate.

If the Jews were wrong Jesus would have corrected them. He did not correct them, thus their teaching on hell was correct.

You've already told me that I cannot use this argument.

The fact that figures of speech are used in the Bible is not license to willy-nilly make anything, everything figurative. The phrase "like unto" in the scripture you alluded to clearly identifies it as figurative.

Not willy-nilly, no.

See my comment above about the Jewish belief in hell.

You didn't respond to my earlier comments about this. No point in rehashing.

That words can be and are used figuratively does not negate the literal. Jesus actually existed, doors actually exist but Jesus was not literally a door.

True.

The literal not figurative interpretation should first be sought and discounted only if the literla is illogical.

Why?

Right let's impose our finite human likes/dislkes, sensibilities,etc. on God. If we like something then God must like it too. If we dislike something then God must dislike it too. If we think something is unfair, then God must think it is unfair too, etc., etc., etc.

You never answered my question before: What do you think about this God you are describing?

 

[createdtoworship]

I don't argue my view just because I had to walk though hell to get to it. If I'm right or wrong, the Lord will determine...I don't see a need to sell a certain view. That's all.

But I do think that it is paramount for us (yes, including myself) to examine the implications of our views on hell which certainly affect how we view (and treat) God as well as others.

That is why I ask questions. I did not mean to offend, so I apologize if my tone was confrontational. (It can be hard to type the right tone! )



Saying that something cannot be demonstrated from the scriptures is not biblical? Well, ok, you may have a case. Let me try again.

Jesus said: "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."

Which demonstrates that it is possible to know the scriptures backwards and forwards and still miss the Messiah. It was true then, and it's true now.

very well, back to your question:

Mark 9:49 - I believe it to mean that just as a sacrifice is seasoned with salt so too those who enter hell will be seasoned with Fire. As it applies the context of Hell to it. Note I said those who enter Hell, so the "everyone" mentioned is all those who enter hell, so too, every sacrifice is only mentioning things sacrificed, not the things NOT sacrificed. Thats a lot of salt, if everything is salted.

there are three views in my seminary commentary, I believe the first and foremost literal view:

"the word &#8220;fire&#8221; link this verse to verses 43&#8211;48. Everyone may be explained in one of three ways: (1) It could refer to every unbeliever who enters hell. They will be salted with fire in the sense that as salt preserves food so they will be preserved throughout an eternity of fiery judgment.

From a seminary level commentary on Mark:
Grassmick, J. D. (1985). Mark. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 2, p. 147). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books."

(the other two views is that everyone is the disciples, and the third is that everyone is everyone- the commentary holds to the last view, but I will see if I can muster up some more views)


here are some more that adhere to my view:

"the passage should be understood as the awesome announcement by Christ that all unbelievers will exist eternally in fire in the day of punishment."

Criswell, W. A., Patterson, P., Clendenen, E. R., Akin, D. L., Chamberlin, M., Patterson, D. K., & Pogue, J. (Eds.). (1991). Believer&#8217;s Study Bible (electronic ed., Mk 9:43). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

wesley adheres to my view:

Verse 49. Every one...(that)* is cast into hell, shall be, as it were, salted with fire, preserved, not consumed thereby whereas every acceptable sacrifice shall be salted with another kind of salt, even that of Divine grace, which purifies the soul, (though frequently with pain) and preserves it from corruption.

Parenthesis mine*
Wesley, J. (1999). Mark (electronic ed., Mk 9:49). Albany, OR: Ages Software.

Arthur Pink in essay entitled - Eternal Punishment agrees-
"when we are told that "every one" who is cast into Gehenna shall be "salted with fire" we learn that the very fire itself so far from consuming shall preserve. If it be asked, How can this be? We answer, Because that fire is "prepared" by God (Mat 25:41).



Manual of Theology - Vol 1- J.L. Dagg states:

Some understand the words, "Every one shall be salted with fire,"[45] to import, that the fire of hell, instead of consuming its victims, will, like salt, preserve them. Whether this be its meaning, or not, there is no reason to doubt that the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, will be adapted to the suffering which they will undergo. Instead of wasting away under its influence, or having their powers of endurance benumbed, we may rather conclude, that, as the righteous, will perpetually ascend in bliss, the wicked will perpetually sink in woe. Their deep is bottomless,[46] and being banished from the presence of God, they may continue to recede from him for ever. Their capacity for suffering, their tormenting passions, their hatred of God, and of one another, may all increase indefinitely, through eternal ages. As wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever, they will continue to fly further and further from God, the eternal source of light and happiness, into deeper, and still deeper darkness and woe. O, that men would seek the Lord, while he may be found.

some believe it both to be unbelievers in hell and believers in this life both salted:

Kenneth Wuest's GreeK word studies-

(9:49, 50) Verse 49, taken in its context, reaches back to the unquenchable fire of Gehenna (v. 48), and forward to the self-discipline of verse 50. Expositors says: "Every one must be salted somehow, either with the unquenchable fire of Gehenna or with the severe fire of self-discipline. Wise is he who chooses the latter alternative." Robertson reminds us of the fact that the Lord Jesus once called His disciples the salt of the earth (Matt. 5:13). He warns them now (v. 50) not to lose their saltness.

Mathew Henry States:

"The pain of mortifying the flesh now is no more to be compared with the punishment for not mortifying it, than salting with burning. And since he had said, that the fire of hell shall not be quenched, but it might be objected, that the fuel will not last always, he here intimates, that by the power of God it shall be made to last always; for those that are cast into hell, will find the fire to have not only the corroding quality of salt, but its preserving quality; whence it is used to signify that which is lasting: a covenant of salt is a perpetual covenant, and Lot&#8217;s wife being turned into a pillar of salt, made her a remaining monument of divine vengeance. Now since this will certainly be the doom of those that do not crucify the flesh with its affections and lusts, let us, knowing this terror of the Lord, be persuaded to do it."

Henry, M. (1994). Matthew Henry&#8217;s commentary on the whole Bible: complete and unabridged in one volume (p. 1799). Peabody: Hendrickson.

THE HEREAFTER: SHEOL, HADES, AND HELL, THE WORLD TO COME, THE SCRIPTURE DOCTRINE OF RETRIBUTION ACCORDING TO LAW. BY JAMES FYFE EDINBURGH :T. & T. CLARK, 38, GEORGE STREET.
1890. states:
Our Lord proceeds to concentrate and crystallize what He had previously said: " For every one must be salted with fire."J * The being salted with fire neither refers simply to the eternal fire, nor merely to the exhortation to self denial, but it includes both. The sense of the expression is this: Because of the general sinfulness of the race, every individual must be salted with fire; either, on the one hand, by his entering of his own free will on a course of self-denial and earnest purification from his iniquities; or, on the other hand, by his being carried against his will away to the place of punishment. The fire appears here first as the cleansing, purifying element, as it is often represented (Ma 1:3:2, 3),


but again I believe it to be ALL those in Hell will be salted, as that is what is spoken of in the context.

here again is one that agrees:

ENDLESS PUNISHMENT:

SCRIPTURAL ARGUMENT FOR, AND REASONABLENESS OF
FUTURE ENDLESS PUNISHMENT. BY NEHEMIAH ADAMS, D. D.,

Nehemiah Adams states:

FUTURE, ENDLESS PUNISHMENT. 49

hand and foot.&#8221; They &#8220; cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion,&#8221; not with candidates for heaven, under discipline, but &#8220;with the hypocrites.&#8221; He is '' thrust out.&#8221; Christ uses the expressions, &#8220; lose his soul; &#8220; &#8220;be cast away; &#8220;&#8220;salted with fire;&#8221; &#8220;grind him to powder;&#8221; &#8220;son of perdition&#8221;; &#8220; &#8220;slay them before me; &#8220;&#8220; seek me and not find me; &#8220; &#8220; gather the good, and cast the bad away;&#8221; &#8220;great gulf fixed;&#8221;
&#8220;die in your sins;&#8221; &#8220;where I am ye cannot come.&#8221; In various parts of the Bible we meet with phrases of the like tenor, -- such as &#8220; wrath to come; &#8220; &#8220; shame and everlasting contempt; &#8220;&#8220; torment us before the time; &#8220; &#8220; reap corruption; &#8220; &#8220; wages of sin is death; &#8220; &#8220; more tolerable for Sodom in the day of judgment; &#8220; &#8220;mist of darkness forever and ever.&#8221; Indeed, these incidental expressions, interwoven everywhere throughout the Bible, assume that the doctrine of future, endless punishment for sin is a matter of course. The common mode of referring to the future implies it. &#8220; Because there is wrath, beware lest he take thee away with his stroke; &#8220;&#8220;then a great ransom will not deliver thee.&#8221; &#8220;I will laugh at your calamity, I will mock when
your fear cometh.&#8221; The numerous passages of this tenor do not suggest any idea of future clemency.

Paul thus declares the end of the wicked, &#8220; The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that knew not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power, when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and admired in all them that believe, for our testimony among you was believed in that day.&#8221; That this does not apply to the destruction of Jerusalem, as the Papists and some Protestants would have us think, appears from the next chapter, in which the Thessalonians are told that &#8220; that day &#8220; is not &#8220; at hand,&#8221; because the &#8220;man of sin&#8221; was first to be revealed.

Then Peter follows him, and says, &#8220; But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.&#8221;

Thus, while the Bible satisfies us that the redemption made by Christ is a final effort to save men, we do not wonder that those who reject the Godhead of Christ and his sacrifice for sin, reject also the idea of endless punishment. There is no adequate necessity for a divine Saviour with his vicarious sacrifice, if there be no such penalty annexed to the law of God. Every man is then his own redeemer, either by obedience or by suffering.

But the evangelical believer looks into the. manger and upon the cross, and sees there his God incarnate. He sees, in that Christ, a sacrifice for his sins. The world laugh him to scorn.

They demand whether he believes that his God is dying; and every form of intellectual ridicule is poured upon him. He steadfastly maintains that &#8220; the Word was God,&#8221; that &#8220; the Word was made flesh,&#8221; that this incarnate Word was on the cross, &#8220; a ransom for many,&#8221; &#8220; a propitiation through faith in his blood,&#8221; his sufferings a substitute for the sinner's punishment. The believer looks to find some necessity for such an incarnation, and for the sacrificial death of such a being. He cannot find it in the need of example, moral suasion, or representation of the divine interest in him; but, in the declaration that Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many, he sees the appropriateness of the incarnation to give a divine worth and efficacy to sufferings which are to atone for sin. There is no revelation to be compared with this: &#8220; God was manifest in the flesh,&#8221; and, he &#8220;was manifested to take away our sins.&#8221; By all the methods of imagery, symbolism, predictions, and most minute, pathetic delineations of his coming, his life, death, and resurrection; by appeals from his own lips, and those of men &#8220; in Christ's stead; &#8220;by that perpetual memorial of him, and of his sacrifice, the Lord's supper, men are admonished, and, &#8220; as though God did beseech them,'* urged to accept pardon through this infinite provision made for the forgiveness of sin. This produces the effect, generally, upon the mind, of a last effort.

It might have been supposed that the work of Christ would suffice for the present dispensation, and that men rejecting or neglecting it would, in a future state, be approached by those influences which belong peculiarly to the work of the third person in the Godhead. But Christ said, ''It is expedient for you that I go away; for, if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment.&#8221; Something more than ordinary divine influence is meant here by the Comforter; for the Saviour's being in the world would not of course keep divine influence out of it, or prevent the disciples from receiving comfort in God. A special, divine agency is here recognized, and, by all the laws of language, a special, divine, personal agent.

His object is to reprove the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. All which is implied in the idea of moral omnipotence is thus made to bear upon the hearts and minds of men, to effect their reconciliation to God, through Christ.

Resistance to these efforts in a certain way, it is declared, shall have the effect, however long a time before death it may be made, to consign the sinner to hopeless condemnation; for '^ whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.&#8221;

thank you for the question:

what is your view?

 

[seeingeyes]

very well, back to your question:

Mark 9:49 - I believe it to mean that just as a sacrifice is seasoned with salt so too those who enter hell will be seasoned with Fire. As it applies the context of Hell to it. Note I said those who enter Hell, so the "everyone" mentioned is all those who enter hell, so too, every sacrifice is only mentioning things sacrificed, not the things NOT sacrificed. Thats a lot of salt, if everything is salted.

what is your view?

I see no reason to limit "everyone" to anything less than "everyone", seeing that in the very next sentence, we are told that salt is good.